On 6/9/2026 at 3:46 PM, KhunLA said:

A sign of the future, and tick tock ICEV ... I'll get a snap tomorrow 🙄

Looks like they're making plans for another row of charging cables.

21 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Indeed they do, primarily combined-cycle gas turbines, hydroelectric and increasingly battery electric storage systems under the draft PDP 2024 scaling up to 2037.

Does this increase your understanding of the subject, or would you like an explanation of some of the long words?

Thank you for your offer but I am a professional certified Electrical engineer so I will pass.

Thailand electricity grid is unlikely to be overwhelmed simply because EV numbers increase, the generation system appears capable of supporting much higher EV penetration. As is almost always the case, local distribution is the bottleneck.

Upgrading local distribution networks is usually much easier and cheaper than increasing generation capacity or upgrading the transmission infrastructure.

Maybe our budding engineers have forgotten that local distribution is usually the first to suffer when consumption increases.

Thailand electricity grid is unlikely to be overwhelmed simply because EV numbers increase, the generation system appears capable of supporting much higher EV penetration. As is almost always the case, local distribution is the bottleneck.

Upgrading local distribution networks is usually much easier and cheaper than increasing generation capacity or upgrading the transmission infrastructure.

Maybe our budding engineers have forgotten that local distribution is usually the first to suffer when consumption increases.

I'm afraid the recently announced investments in Thai AI data centers are what's going to eat your lunch. But I hope I'm wrong.

23 minutes ago, impulse said:

I'm afraid the recently announced investments in Thai AI data centers are what's going to eat your lunch. But I hope I'm wrong.

Now that is a real concern for parts of the grid, how its handled we have to wait and see. Eating the EV lunch is a real possibility.

4 hours ago, Fruit Trader said:

Now that is a real concern for parts of the grid, how its handled we have to wait and see. Eating the EV lunch is a real possibility.

EV charging around the world has already shown that it can flex and ramp if given price signals to match supply constraints or excess supply.

My brother's EV in the UK does most of its charging in the early hours even though he plugs it in when he gets home.

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

EV charging around the world has already shown that it can flex and ramp if given price signals to match supply constraints or excess supply.

My brother's EV in the UK does most of its charging in the early hours even though he plugs it in when he gets home.

A large fixed load like a data center doesn't just consume energy it consumes flexibility. This is why I said lets wait and see how its handled here in Thailand.

A lot of discussions around EVs assume the grid has periods of spare capacity that EVs can exploit. If a substantial amount of the 24/7 demand is added those spare-capacity periods become smaller.

58 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

A large fixed load like a data center doesn't just consume energy it consumes flexibility. This is why I said lets wait and see how its handled here in Thailand.

A lot of discussions around EVs assume the grid has periods of spare capacity that EVs can exploit. If a substantial amount of the 24/7 demand is added those spare-capacity periods become smaller.

You’re assuming a static grid, which it isn’t.

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

You’re assuming a static grid, which it isn’t.

No, I am not assuming the grid is static. I am saying that persistent baseload growth reduces flexibility unless infrastructure expands alongside it.

A large 24/7 load like a data center permanently raises the floor of demand. This directly affects reserve margins and reduces the spare off peak capacity that a lot of EV charging assumptions rely on.

Again lets wait and see how Thailand handles additional fixed loads over time. If you have actual data showing the grid here can absorb unlimited new demand without consequences for peak management, reserve capacity, or future infrastructure requirements please share it.

Grid capability is not just about generation surplus, its about transmission and distribution.

If the talk of a 2.8 gigawatt data center pipeline were evenly distributed across Thailand provinces it might be manageable. But its not looking that way as the vast majority of these projects are a bottleneck in very specific zones.

I understand these negatives unsettle the EV folk, but relax nothing drastic will happen any time soon and I am quite sure Thailands board of investment will continue to apply the brakes on wild data center approvals.

10 hours ago, Fruit Trader said:

A large fixed load like a data center doesn't just consume energy it consumes flexibility. A lot of discussions around EVs assume the grid has periods of spare capacity that EVs can exploit. If a substantial amount of the 24/7 demand is added those spare-capacity periods become smaller.

Flexibility comes from renewables.

In the UK the Wind has become the largest single contributor to the UK’s energy supply so that's why there is excess and therefore cheaper electricity at night.

Australia boasts the highest per capita solar generation in the world, heavily driven by rooftop installations on residential homes making electricity prices go negative in the middle of the day.

"The Thai government aims to increase the use of renewables to 51% of energy generation by 2037, which could save over $9 billion every year"

https://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/thailands-cost-optimal-pathway-to-a-sustainable-economy

7 hours ago, Fruit Trader said:

I understand these negatives unsettle the EV folk

My 2 EVs are powered over 99% of the time from my off-grid home - nothing unsettles me.

9 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

My 2 EVs are powered over 99% of the time from my off-grid home - nothing unsettles me.

Same here, all my electric needs are 98.754% from solar since installed, just prior to owning BEV.

Edited June 12Jun 12 by KhunLA

3 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

Flexibility comes from renewables.

In the UK the Wind has become the largest single contributor to the UK’s energy supply so that's why there is excess and therefore cheaper electricity at night.

Australia boasts the highest per capita solar generation in the world, heavily driven by rooftop installations on residential homes making electricity prices go negative in the middle of the day.

"The Thai government aims to increase the use of renewables to 51% of energy generation by 2037, which could save over $9 billion every year"

https://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/thailands-cost-optimal-pathway-to-a-sustainable-economy

Renewables may provide generation flexibility but that does not answer the underlying question.

Can the local grid infrastructure in the key development zones simultaneously support rapid data center growth and rapid EV adoption without substantial transmission and distribution upgrades.

Grid capability is not simply a matter of total megawatts available on paper, it is about if power can be delivered reliably to where demand is concentrated. A gigawatt data center load clustered in a handful of locations presents a very different challenge from the same load being distributed across the country.

Well run utilities and investment boards study connection capacity and future demand not just national generation surplus. My concern is not that Thailand will run out of electricity but that infrastructure expansion may struggle to keep pace if large data centers and EV charging networks are competing for capacity in the same regions.

Thailand has not always been known for proactive infrastructure planning which is why I believe these risks deserve closer scrutiny rather than being dismissed with references to renewables alone.

Again, lets wait and see how Thailand (not the UK or AUS) handles additional fixed loads.

P.S.

Sorry for not considering those wearing the "I charge from home solar badge" in a previous post.

Big thanks to @impulse for introducing this fun subject.

Edited June 12Jun 12 by Fruit Trader

12 hours ago, Fruit Trader said:

I understand these negatives unsettle the EV folk

Not one jot.

2 hours ago, Fruit Trader said:

Can the local grid infrastructure in the key development zones simultaneously support rapid data center growth and rapid EV adoption without substantial transmission and distribution upgrades. ... Again, lets wait and see how Thailand (not the UK or AUS) handles additional fixed loads.

Apparently TH's grid can, so no need to wait & see, from G AI ...

... "Thailand has dozens of operational data centers, with over 60 active facilities—most clustered in Bangkok and its surrounding industrial provinces. Major operators like True IDC, NTT Global Data Centers, and STT GDC already have multiple sites running in the region. - krungsri.com+3" ...

Edited June 12Jun 12 by KhunLA

Only about a dozen of these would be considered large scale but there's 3 times that many in the planning stages. It's a big leap to make.

3 hours ago, Fruit Trader said:

My concern is not that Thailand will run out of electricity but that infrastructure expansion may struggle to keep pace if large data centers and EV charging networks are competing for capacity in the same regions.

You can't compare EV charging with data centers. You are comparing fixed and flexible demand and the scale is completely different.

3 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

You can't compare EV charging with data centers. You are comparing fixed and flexible demand and the scale is completely different.

Data centers, they surely not go invest without knowing the can power the facility, independently or on the grid, or both. One major DC mention in my earlier post, has plans to be self powered at the Chon Buri DC.

Their Krung Thep location already gets some, if not all from solar ...

STT GDC DC building is looking fancy & high tech, and have to wonder if the outer wall covering isn't some type of solar PV.

True Int. DC, maybe it's just a coincidence, huge solar farm is stone's throw away ...

I don't think most people realize how solar is already being used in TH, commercially, and not necessarily powering the grid, but businesses, mall, supplementing the power source.

I noticed the use of solar when at a mall parking garage at Future Park ...

Edited June 12Jun 12 by KhunLA

Some PTT EV Station Pluz and ReverSharger charging network info regarding "Autocharge"....that is, just plug the charging station cable into your EV and the charging will start automatically....no need to scan a QR code, enter a charger number, push buttons/icons, etc....etc....etc...to get the charging going.

See below post for a recent DC charger charging experience....charging on three different networks (OneCharge, PTT, and MEA) at three different chargers over a 45 minute time frame here in the western Bangkok area. As you'll see the charging rate I got varied widely most likely due to DC charger KW capability "at the time of charging" and not due to the EV.

Spark DC charger, advertised 360 kW. I was #3 of 8 piles: for about 5 minutes until another car pulled in next to me, I saw as high as 270 kW and best I have seen, then it dropped to 120 kW until it later recovered to 180 kW......well, this is Thailand, so electrons are moving with Thai leisure intensity only.

Edited Tuesday at 01:24 AM2 days by mistral53

1 hour ago, mistral53 said:

Spark DC charger, advertised 360 kW. I was #3 of 8 piles: for about 5 minutes until another car pulled in next to me, I saw as high as 270 kW and best I have seen, then it dropped to 120 kW until it later recovered to 180 kW......well, this is Thailand, so electrons are moving with Thai leisure intensity only.

It see the mentioned 360, 270, 180, and 120KW amounts mentioned have common number of 30KW....that is,360/12=30, 270/9=30, 180/6=30, and 120/4=30.

Since DC Fast Chargers are typically constructed of "multiple/stacked power modules" which can be switched in and out of circuit (or redirected) as needed I expect at this charging location 30KW charging modules were used. 20, 30, and 40KW are common module sizes used with many DC chargers....but other sizes are available.

So, when using a charger and say getting 270KW but when another EV connects on the same charger and your charge rates drops to 180KW but you notice on the charger display that other EV is only pulling 70KW you might wonder why didn't your charge rate drop to 200KW instead of actually dropping to 180KW since that other EV is only pulling 70KW?

Well, it's probably due to three 30KW charging modules being dedicated/switched to that other EV....90KW worth of power but that EV's battery charging curve can only handle 70KW....but the way the DC fast charger is constructed power module-wise 90KW worth of power is dedicate to that other EV whether it can use the entire 90KW or not.

Now some might say that maybe the charger's input power from PEA/MEA may have decreased/increased suddenly....well, that is indeed possible but unlikely if seeing increases/decreases when other EVs are disconnecting/connecting.

Now as previously mentioned charging modules come in various sizes (but 30KW is a very common one) so a person could see sudden power increases/decreases of 20, 30, 40KW, etc. (matching a power module rating) versus more random increases/decreases of say 17, 32, 35KW, etc. when other EVs connect/disconnect at the charging station you are using. And of course based on your EV's charging curve/BMS it too can suddenly command a KW increase/decrease with it just being coincidental that command happened within a minute of when another EV started sharing the charger, but I expect usually the sudden increase/decrease as other EVs connect/disconnect is EV power modules being switched in and out/redirected.

So, how is your Zeekr 7X working out for you? I know you must love the a max charging rate capability of around 400KW with its CATL Qilin 100KW NMC battery.

1 hour ago, Pib said:

So, how is your Zeekr 7X working out for you? I know you must love the a max charging rate capability of around 400KW with its CATL Qilin 100KW NMC battery.

I take it you were facetious - chances to max out these cars charging at full tilt in Thailand remains as elusive as getting bitten by a fairy.

I have finally finished expanding the ABB charger to 3 phases, allowing for 22 kW AC power throughput - it's quite a difference to the plebeian 7 kW the single phase allows for. I have tested it, it works - but I mostly throttle to 16 to 20 Amps - the real benefit is the load balance over the 3 phases vs. pulling all the power on one phase.

Yea....most DC chargers in Thailand are in the 120-180KW ballpark right now with 180KW appearing to become preferred at many charger locations "based on my experience so far" with new charging locations opening up and 180KW being the charger likely used. Like PTT opening a new 3 charger/6 connector location less about a kilometer from my western Bangkok home...180KW chargers are at this location. Spark also using 180KW in two near locations close to my home. I've seen this at other new locations by various charging networks. I do have access to several 720KW charging locations in my area (Bangkok) but they are located in areas I don't frequent nor would most travelers "just passing by/going around" Bangkok on a trip.

180KW seems to be a level that meets "most" current day EV charging requirements and probably don't over stress the local grid. And I expect 180KW chargers are a lot cheaper than bigger chargers such as 360KW, 720KW, etc. And by meeting current day EV requirements I don't mean by being able to satisfy an EV's "max/peak" charging rate that only applies to a limited portion of the EV's charging curve, but being able fully satisfy a lot of EV charging curves while also providing a good charge rate for those EV such as the Zeekr 7X that are capable of high charge rates of several hundred KW.

Yea, I think 180KW is the current "sweet spot/middle ground/cost effective" for chargers in terms of real needs for EV drivers and cost to buy/install high power chargers....and DC fast chargers are not cheap compared to a little ol' 7/11/22 KW "AC" charger.

Why are you limiting your 22KW AC charger rate to 16-20A per phase vs using 32A/phase since a total of 22KW/96A going into the battery is very tame....is even less that what the battery charging curve allows during the final few percent of charging? I know you mentioned load balancing....are some of the phases weak in your PEA/MEA grid area?

And yea, being able to charge a big battery like your Zeekr 7X 100KW with a 22KW charger vs 7KW surely makes a big difference...like being able to charge from 0 to100% in around 5 hours vs 15 hours. I have personally noticed in how a 22KW or 11KW home AC charging capability sure would be nice afer having my Sealion 7 with 82.5KW battery for 3 months now compared to my Atto 3 with 60.5KW battery. Charging my Sealion7 with only a 7KW charger (the Sealion can do up to 11KW/3 phase) has definitely been noticed in how long it takes to top-up the battery in comparison to my Atto 3. But hey, my home only has single phase power and I'm definitely not going to spend big money to add 3 phase power even if only just for the charger. I just need to get use to the "norm" in how long it takes to fully top-up my SL7.

On 8/4/2026 at 12:34 PM, Pib said:

Why are you limiting your 22KW AC charger rate to 16-20A per phase vs using 32A/phase since a total of 22KW/96A going into the battery is very tame....is even less that what the battery charging curve allows during the final few percent of charging? I know you mentioned load balancing....are some of the phases weak in your PEA/MEA grid area?

We are actually the only house in our sub-division permanently on the PEA trafo, other houses are BKK getaways accumulating just a few days/weeks of occupancy per year, so our Voltage is at the upper limit of almost 240V before solar push is added - ergo, that is not my concern.

Call me overly protective, but I just like to keep everything on the temperate side - wires, breakers, terminals, enclosures, cables, plugs. Naturally, if there were a need for re-charging deeply discharged batteries every day, I wouldn't hesitate to go to the 22kW on the Zeekr.

It's curious that you are nagging about your single phase installation - I wouldn't mind, because when you have solar with ESS, single phase makes life so much easier and cheaper, e.g. if I had a single phase supply, I would have gone the recycled EV battery route for ESS, which would mean a lot less money for a lot more storage capacity.

20 hours ago, mistral53 said:

We are actually the only house in our sub-division permanently on the PEA trafo, other houses are BKK getaways accumulating just a few days/weeks of occupancy per year, so our Voltage is at the upper limit of almost 240V before solar push is added - ergo, that is not my concern.

Call me overly protective, but I just like to keep everything on the temperate side - wires, breakers, terminals, enclosures, cables, plugs. Naturally, if there were a need for re-charging deeply discharged batteries every day, I wouldn't hesitate to go to the 22kW on the Zeekr.

It's curious that you are nagging about your single phase installation - I wouldn't mind, because when you have solar with ESS, single phase makes life so much easier and cheaper, e.g. if I had a single phase supply, I would have gone the recycled EV battery route for ESS, which would mean a lot less money for a lot more storage capacity.

Sounds good.

And in fact sometimes I charge at less than 32A/7KW with my home 7KW AC chargr...not because of concern about wire/component heating but "timing as to when I will reach 100% SOC." Whenever I know I'm going on a long trip the next day I like to charge up to 100% before leaving and I would like to minimize the time the battery sets at 100% charge before I begin the drive. So, if charging at 32A results in 100% say 2am in the morning and I will not begin my drive until 9am instead of having having the EV set 100% SOC for 7 hours I will lower the charge rate to 16A, 10A, etc., so I would reach 100% just before the drive...like if a 16A charge rate results in 100% SOC at 8am then I'll would use a 16A charge rate.

They say a EV lithium-ion battery shouldn't set at 100% charge for an extended period like a few days or longer otherwise it can slightly increase the battery's long term degradation rate. Heck, they even recommend keeping laptop and phone batteries at a mid level state of charge if turning them off for an extended period. So, I'm just taking the extra precaution of minimizing to the max a cause of battery degradation.

Oh yea, one other reason I use 16A or less sometimes...it lowers the stress on the EV onboard charger and prevents the EV cooling system from needing to turn on (i..e, the radiator fan turns on) to help cool the onboard charger....makes home charging quieter in those cases where the EV can easily be heard.