ZALENSKY has landed in the US

[Chigur]

18 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

As it happened: Zelensky tells Congress Ukraine will never surrender

And then he added in a low voice "As long as you keep sending money" and then he started to giggle.

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Chigur said:

And then he added in a low voice "As long as you keep sending money" and then he started to giggle.

Yea because he finds the murders of his civilian population so amusing. Pathetic troll comment

[ozimoron]

How 'unhinged' MAGA Republicans 'went full Putin' during Zelensky’s White House visit

 

“Putin’s Useful Idiots: Right Wingers Lose It Over Zelenskyy Visit.”

 

Partly, it’s the belief that Ukrainian democracy is a Biden/Obama/Hillary Clinton/‘Deep State’ project, all the more suspect because it’s related to Trump’s first impeachment.”

 

Many NatCons are far more sympathetic to Russia’s crusade against secular liberalism than to Ukraine’s desire for integration into liberal, secular Europe.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/how-unhinged-maga-republicans-went-full-putin-during-zelenskys-white-house-visit-libertarian/

[Chigur]

27 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yea because he finds the murders of his civilian population so amusing.

You evidently assume Zelensky is in charge. He is in charge of nothing. He is a pawn running a proxy war on behalf of Nato/US. And a bunch of shady Ukrainian oligarchs and arms merchants, who are getting fabulously rich off the money flowing in, are propping him up. If he goes off script he's dead.

 

I don't envy the man. Is he personally enriching himself? I hope so. He deserves  a life of quiet luxury in Monaco after the government falls.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Chigur

[Hanaguma]

2 hours ago, kwonitoy said:

It's in the worlds best interest, not just Canada's or Americas.

The money being put in by the US military is a rounding error on the amount of their budget.

As to Canada I'd sooner see it go to fighting a good cause rather than say a totally useless gun buyback program, which is a colossal waste of money

On that point we can agree, Trudeau's gun policy is a sad joke.  Not sure if I would call $80 billion a "rounding error" though. As I said before, in Canada it amounts to $800 per family. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

30 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yea because he finds the murders of his civilian population so amusing. Pathetic troll comment

I was going to make a joke about him needing the money because he's only got one green T-shirt and he needs the money  to buy a razor to have a shave , but I thought that it would be inappropriate and so I didn't bother and this really isn't a laughing matter 

[Mac Mickmanus]

40 minutes ago, Chigur said:

And then he added in a low voice "As long as you keep sending money" and then he started to giggle.

Is he asking for funds ?

[Bkk Brian]

16 minutes ago, Chigur said:

You evidently assume Zelensky is in charge. He is in charge of nothing. He is a pawn running a proxy war on behalf of Nato/US. And a bunch of shady Ukrainian oligarchs and arms merchants, who are getting fabulously rich off the money flowing in, are propping him up. If he goes off script he's dead.

 

I don't envy the man. Is he personally enriching himself? I hope so. He deserves  a life of quiet luxury in Monaco after the government falls.

You evidently deflect your inappropriate trolling comment

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, Chigur said:

You evidently assume Zelensky is in charge. He is in charge of nothing. He is a pawn running a proxy war on behalf of Nato/US. And a bunch of shady Ukrainian oligarchs and arms merchants, who are getting fabulously rich off the money flowing in, are propping him up. If he goes off script he's dead.

 

I don't envy the man. Is he personally enriching himself? I hope so. He deserves  a life of quiet luxury in Monaco after the government falls.

The Zelensky who's wildly popular in Ukraine? That Zelensky?

[Chigur]

9 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The Zelensky who's wildly popular in Ukraine? That Zelensky?

Bush's approval rating start of the Iraq war was +80%. People rally around wartime leaders. As they should. But this doesn't mean much. I stand by my assertion that he's a stooge.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Chigur said:

Bush's approval rating start of the Iraq war was +80%. People rally around wartime leaders. As they should. But this doesn't mean much. I stand by my assertion that he's a stooge.

And I will accuse you of trolling because you failed to offer any substantiation.

[Jingthing]

54 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

And I will accuse you of trolling because you failed to offer any substantiation.

The conspiracy theory that Zelinsky is a puppet mirrors the typical right wing conspiracy theory that Biden is a puppet. 

Utter garbage. 

[JimmyJ]

19 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Some keyboard warriors here have spoken their piece but what does Americans feel about the war.

 

Majority of Americans (57%) believe that US should continue sending military and financial aid to Ukraine. Only a third (33%) say they think US can’t afford to spend more on the conflict. 82% of respondents perceive Russia is an enemy up significantly from last year. and 76% Americans consider Ukraine an ally. 
 

https://www.voanews.com/a/poll-majority-of-americans-support-continued-aid-for-ukraine/6858460.html

As "ZelenskyWarCriminal" trends (yet again) on Twitter.

[Bkk Brian]

23 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

As "ZelenskyWarCriminal" trends (yet again) on Twitter.

This is not a twitter bot and troll thread

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[Chomper Higgot]

12 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Chomp, those are good questions. I will try and answer your two messages here, if that is OK...

 

First, regarding Putin's ambitions. They are limited by his military capacity. The Russian Army cannot carry out offensive operations anywhere too far from the Russian border. They do not have airlift or logistics capability to operate at a distance.  So no I am not worried about him invading another country. Where do you think he will target next?  I can't think of anywhere.

 

Again, "let's arm Ukraine" sounds lovely but it is actually very simplistic. We need to decide what the endgame is, and what is acceptable as a compromise solution that does not set off a larger conflict.  

 

"Let the Russians take care of Putin" again sounds good. But... who comes next?  I cannot see a Russian version of Barack Obama on the horizon. Chances are the next guy will be even worse, with fewer scruples and more aggression. Better to deal with the devil we know than the one we don't. 

 

And to answer my own question about NATO intervention, I would say no. No under any circumstances in Ukraine. IF Putin attacks a NATO member then all bets are off.  How about you?

More appeasement.

 

There’s only one group of people who have the right to determine how to deal with Putin’s illegal war of invasion, they are Ukrainians.

They like being Ukrainians, they don’t want to be Russians.

 

Putin will eventually be replaced, whoever comes in might be worse, which is only more reason to ensure Putin’s illegal war of aggression is not rewarded with territorial gains handed to him in any negotiations.
 

But I’m rather puzzled by your objections to my comment regarding the Russians taking care of Putin, since it’s an argument you yourself have made - Perhaps you received an update on the party line talk track?

 

 

When did I ever suggest NATO joining in this war?

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, Chigur said:

Bush's approval rating start of the Iraq war was +80%. People rally around wartime leaders. As they should. But this doesn't mean much. I stand by my assertion that he's a stooge.

Approval rating and being a stooge, is a non sequitur.

 

Regardless, I see you are brand new member to the forum.

I might have missed that since brand new members don’t normally dive straight into the contentious issues.

 

Anyhow welcome, it’s always nice to have the possibility of new voices.

[Chomper Higgot]

13 hours ago, coolcarer said:

Myth 3: ‘Russia wouldn’t attack a NATO member state’ 

There are several reasons why it is incorrect to assume that Russia would not attack NATO members.

https://www.chathamhouse.org/2022/06/myths-and-misconceptions-around-russian-military-intent/myth-3-russia-wouldnt-attack-nato

 

 

Yet Russia has used nerve agent weapons in a murderous attack within at least one NATO nation.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Chomper Higgot

[Eric Loh]

2 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

As "ZelenskyWarCriminal" trends (yet again) on Twitter.

Honestly you fall for that kind of Russia propaganda from their troll farms?

[gargamon]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Regardless, I see you are brand new member to the forum.

I might have missed that since brand new members don’t normally dive straight into the contentious issues.

Clearly someone who was banned, or had such a bad reputation they needed a reset. 

[Bkk Brian]

They're crying on Russian state TV............???? “How many times do I have to repeat: DON’T SHOW THIS VIDEO ANYMORE!!”

 

‘Get Rid of the Video!’: Putin Crony Freaks Out in Live TV Flop Over Zelensky Clip

Solovyov was apparently unnerved by the video of the warm reception extended to Zelensky in the United States.

While Simes was droning on, Solovyov appeared to be furiously texting on his phone, eventually revealing that he was texting his producers and demanding that they stop replaying the clips of Zelensky before the U.S. Congress.

Apparently, the producers were too slow to cater to the host’s demands—and he finally exploded, interrupting Simes, he fumed: “Forgive me, Dimitri. Guys, get rid of this video, if you can’t read what is being written to you!”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-state-tv-flop-sends-vladimir-solovyov-raging-over-video-of-volodymyr-zelensky

 

 

[Phoenix Rising]

11 hours ago, Chigur said:

And then he added in a low voice "As long as you keep sending money" and then he started to giggle.

Troll, be gone.

[Phoenix Rising]

Couple of really active "new" trolls in this thread. Hope they step over the line and get banned again as they're like that irritating fly buzzing around your head.

[Phoenix Rising]

13 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

It was the Ukrainian  neo Nazi military groups and their actions in the region that caused concern to Putin and the cause of his retaliation and the war ,  the election results didn't have any significance , it was the Ukrainian  neo Nazis waging war against the ethnic Russians in the region that was the problem 

No, it wasn't. That was the excuse Putin came up with. If you really believe that BS (and maybe the big steal as well?) I have some shiny new bridges to sell you.

[Hanaguma]

46 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

No, it wasn't. That was the excuse Putin came up with. If you really believe that BS (and maybe the big steal as well?) I have some shiny new bridges to sell you.

This is classic, trying to tie skepticism of spending on Ukraine to Trump somehow.  Typical. 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

This is classic, trying to tie skepticism of spending on Ukraine to Trump somehow.  Typical. 

Other than the fact that the only US politicians skeptical of the spending are Trump acolytes.

[Phoenix Rising]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

This is classic, trying to tie skepticism of spending on Ukraine to Trump somehow.  Typical. 

The poster was parroting Putin's lame excuses for invading another peaceful country. That has nothing to do with your manic posting against the support for a peaceful country being invaded by a brutal aggressor who, if left unchallenged, would have taken a victory in Ukraine as a carte blanche for further aggression.

So do try to pay attention thereby avoiding embarrassing yourself further.

[Hanaguma]

15 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Other than the fact that the only US politicians skeptical of the spending are Trump acolytes.

Exactly. Like Rand Paul and Tulsi Gabbard...

[Phoenix Rising]

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Exactly. Like Rand Paul and Tulsi Gabbard...

Are the names of those two supposed to impress us??

[placeholder]

36 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

This is classic, trying to tie skepticism of spending on Ukraine to Trump somehow.  Typical. 

A very notorious gaffe. 

Michael Kinsley's definition: Kinsley gaffe: A truthful statement told accidentally, usually by a politician.

 

U.S. LEGAL NEWS
OCTOBER 17, 20195:16 PMUPDATED 3 YEARS AGO
Trump administration broke law in withholding Ukraine aid, watchdog says as Senate prepares for impeachment trial

Trump refused to release the funds to Ukraine at the same time he was pressuring that country’s new president to announce investigations of former Vice President Joe Biden and of Biden’s son Hunter, who had served on the board of a Ukraine gas company. Joe Biden is the current front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination.

The funds were only released after the block on the aid became publicly known, sparking the congressional probe which led to the Republican president’s impeachment by the Democratic-controlled House.

The Trump administration broke the law by withholding congressionally approved military aid to Ukraine last summer “for a policy reason,” a top government watchdog said Thursday in a scathing report.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/16/trump-administration-broke-law-in-withholding-ukraine-aid.html

 

White House acknowledges strings attached in Trump withholding Ukraine aid

President Donald Trump’s withholding of $391 million in military aid to Ukraine was linked to his request that the Ukrainians look into a claim - debunked as a conspiracy theory - about the 2016 U.S. election, a senior presidential aide said on Thursday, the first time the White House acknowledged such a connection.

This video file cannot be played.

Trump and administration officials had denied for weeks that they had demanded a “quid pro quo” - a Latin phrase meaning a favor for a favor - for delivering the U.S. aid, a key part of a controversy that has triggered an impeachment inquiry in the House of Representatives against the Republican president.

But Mick Mulvaney, acting White House chief of staff, acknowledged in a briefing with reporters that the U.S. aid - already approved by Congress - was held up partly over Trump’s concerns about a Democratic National Committee (DNC) computer server alleged to be in Ukraine.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-whistleblower-idUSKBN1WW1BG

 

 

[heybruce]

On 12/21/2022 at 11:37 PM, Hanaguma said:

That is the stock answer, isn't it?  If you don't fall in lockstep with the warmongers, you are a stooge of Putin. And worse, a stooge of Trump.

 

But there is a principled position that rejects both. Ukraine is no free and democratic society.  They poked the bear and the bear got mad.  Biden made it worse by seeming to accept a "minor incursion" into Ukraine. So here we are.  

 

Sorry, but Ukraine isn't worth 7 billion dollars of my country's hard earned taxes.  

Gee, and here I thought "the bear" was poking Ukraine.

 

I still think that.  Please explain how Ukraine "poked the bear", other than by defending itself.