Classified documents from Biden’s time as VP discovered in private office

[billd766]

This is how I visualise Trump, though he is nowhere near as funny.

 

IMHO Trump is more pathetic than funny.

 

https://clip.cafe/carry-on-cleo-1964/theyve-all-got-in-me/

 

 

[pomchop]

16 minutes ago, billd766 said:

This is how I visualise Trump, though he is nowhere near as funny.

 

IMHO Trump is more pathetic than funny.

 

https://clip.cafe/carry-on-cleo-1964/theyve-all-got-in-me/

 

 

He had his chance but blew it....IF IF IF he would have accepted that he lost and announced he would never run again and gone to mar a lago and played golf he would have avoided most all of the investigations....he could have gone on fox "news" and spent all his time blasting Biden and/or every other president, king, Queen, CEO, Athlete and any and all the 'idiots" during  his "golden" years. 

 

He could have still grifted many millions more from the kool aide crew without worrying much about going to jail or being seen as a massive loser.  He did the opposite and has gotten himself into a heap of sxxxxt.....in the end he will indeed be seen as the Greatest con man ever to be POTUS.   To paraphrase Mick Jagger....NO sympathy for the devil.

[ozimoron]

11 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

You're obviously in the wrong thread. This is about Biden's unlawful possession of Classified Docs. Biden has been keeping and shuffling classified docs around since his senator days. Trump haters are ignoring this very important fact.

Wrong. Unless a prosecutor can prove that Biden knew he had possession of those documents he can't be convicted. Look up "mens rea".

[Scott]

A post making unsubstantiated claim has been removed along with replies.  Continue with unsupported claims and conspiracy theories and suspensions will be given.  

 

[candide]

8 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

I see what you are saying. So, what is the "magic number" of classified documents someone without authority can be possessing when the situation changes from a "nothing there there" to the crime of the century? 27? 100? 200?

 Now most of us here, self included are not lawyers, but this whole claim about it all hinging on a number of documents to determine legality and severity sounds unlikely.

Same reply as before. The law requires intent. A few documents forgotten somewhere doesn't support an accusation of intent (it doesn't exclude it either but does not support it)

 

The law specifies: "knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials". I doubt having a few classified documents scattered here and there can be used to accuse him of such intent!

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1924

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

I see what you are saying. So, what is the "magic number" of classified documents someone without authority can be possessing when the situation changes from a "nothing there there" to the crime of the century? 27? 100? 200?

 Now most of us here, self included are not lawyers, but this whole claim about it all hinging on a number of documents to determine legality and severity sounds unlikely.

If DT had only 26 classified documents, would the poster that you responded to accept the same excuse for DT? I suspect not.

[ozimoron]

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If DT had only 26 classified documents, would the poster that you responded to accept the same excuse for DT? I suspect not.

You still can't bring yourself to the point that Trump is accused of obstructing the FBI.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If DT had only 26 classified documents, would the poster that you responded to accept the same excuse for DT? I suspect not.

If DT lied about having the 26 documents and stalled the return until the Justice Department was forced to use a search warrant....

 

But of course this has been pointed out to you many times.  You continue to ignore it.

[candide]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If DT had only 26 classified documents, would the poster that you responded to accept the same excuse for DT? I suspect not.

As already replied to you before.

 

Not an excuse, a fact which may be relevant as the law specifies that intent is a necessary condition.

 

The law specifies: "knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials". I doubt having a few classified documents scattered here and there can be used to accuse him of such intent!

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1924

 

Its very different from Trump's case. Trump knowingly removed documents (his own statement in a court document), and has shown intent to retain. Actually he did knowingly retain, hid 11,000 documents, lied about it. An obvious obstruction case.

 

As usual, Trumpers pretend to ignore it and try to distract attention from it.

Edited January 24, 2023 by candide

[candide]

It seems Pence was jealous not to get enough attention. Note how, like Biden, and unlike Trump, he did not try to hide them and did not commit any obstruction.

 

BBC News - Classified documents found at Mike Pence's home

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64392871

 

[SunnyinBangrak]

15 hours ago, ozimoron said:

You still can't bring yourself to the point that Trump is accused of obstructing the FBI.

"Months before the raid on his Mar-a-Lago residence, former President Donald Trump's lawyers recieved instructions to "secure the room" in which he stored his documents, sources told CNN.

The sources told CNN aides added a padlock in order to secure the room. "

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-asked-lawyers-add-padlock-office-before-fbi-search-2022-8

 

There is much evidence that Trump was COOPERATING with the DOJ concerning his stash of classified documents(that he claims to have declassified as is a President's right).

 

 I am concerned the repeated phrasing that Trump hid, stole, obstructed etc etc the documents - while there is evidence he was actually cooperating unlike Biden who pretended he didn't have any and stated how could Trump be so careless - is grossly misleading and inaccurate, and using this misinformation to falsely try painting Biden's own classified document scandal as a nothing-burger is not honest.

[Bkk Brian]

15 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

"Months before the raid on his Mar-a-Lago residence, former President Donald Trump's lawyers recieved instructions to "secure the room" in which he stored his documents, sources told CNN.

The sources told CNN aides added a padlock in order to secure the room. "

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-asked-lawyers-add-padlock-office-before-fbi-search-2022-8

 

There is much evidence that Trump was COOPERATING with the DOJ concerning his stash of classified documents(that he claims to have declassified as is a President's right).

 

 I am concerned the repeated phrasing that Trump hid, stole, obstructed etc etc the documents - while there is evidence he was actually cooperating unlike Biden who pretended he didn't have any and stated how could Trump be so careless - is grossly misleading and inaccurate, and using this misinformation to falsely try painting Biden's own classified document scandal as a nothing-burger is not honest.

 I am concerned the repeated phrasing that Trump hid, stole, obstructed etc etc the documents - while there is evidence he was actually cooperating unlike Biden who pretended he didn't have any and stated how could Trump be so careless - is grossly misleading and inaccurate, and using this misinformation to falsely try painting Biden's own classified document scandal as a nothing-burger is not honest.

 

Tell that to the FBI who cited it in the search warrant at Mar-a-Lago

[Pattaya Spotter]

Thanks Joe...

 

 F.B.I. agents are rummaging through President Biden’s private home. Republicans are on the attack. Democrats are reluctant to defend him. Lawyers are being hired. Witnesses are being interviewed. The press secretary is being pelted with questions she cannot or will not answer. [Didn't Mr. Biden promise honesty and transparency in government?]

 

....the most significant cost to the president may be the opportunity cost: Even if nothing comes of the new special counsel investigation into his mishandling of classified documents, politically it has effectively let former President Donald J. Trump off the hook for hoarding secret papers.

 

Biden’s Handling of Secret Documents Complicates the Case Against Trump https://nyti.ms/3wpCu5l

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Even if nothing comes of the new special counsel investigation into his mishandling of classified documents, politically it has effectively let former President Donald J. Trump off the hook for hoarding secret papers.

Thanks for that Mr Biden!

[vandeventer]

On 1/10/2023 at 7:42 AM, Pattaya Spotter said:

You can't make this stuff up!

Now VP Pence has come out and said he has classified doc's at his house. As he is running for President he just might want some attention? Should we check all the VP's and ex-Presidents homes and maybe some more?

[Pattaya Spotter]

41 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Now VP Pence has come out and said he has classified doc's at his house. As he is running for President he just might want some attention? Should we check all the VP's and ex-Presidents homes and maybe some more?

Probably...as President Trump said D.C. is a swamp and he did nothing his predecessors haven't done for years (despite the media and Democrat Party meltdown).

[placeholder]

26 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Probably...as President Trump said D.C. is a swamp and he did nothing his predecessors haven't done for years (despite the media and Democrat Party meltdown).

Really? They refused to return documents when requested? They lied to the Justice Dept. about having documents in their possession? 

[ozimoron]

Senators bewildered by Pence classified document revelation

 

Senators on both sides of the aisle were caught off guard Tuesday by the news that classified documents were found at the Indiana home of former Vice President Mike Pence, materials that were ultimately turned over to the FBI.

An attorney for Pence told the National Archives that the former vice president used outside counsel to review records stored at his personal home after several classified documents were found at the home and a former office of President Biden. The Pence news left some Senate lawmakers floored over yet another discovery of classified documents belonging to a former vice president.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3828860-senators-bewildered-by-pence-classified-document-revelation/

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

5 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Thanks Joe...

 

 F.B.I. agents are rummaging through President Biden’s private home. Republicans are on the attack. Democrats are reluctant to defend him. Lawyers are being hired. Witnesses are being interviewed. The press secretary is being pelted with questions she cannot or will not answer. [Didn't Mr. Biden promise honesty and transparency in government?]

 

....the most significant cost to the president may be the opportunity cost: Even if nothing comes of the new special counsel investigation into his mishandling of classified documents, politically it has effectively let former President Donald J. Trump off the hook for hoarding secret papers.

 

Biden’s Handling of Secret Documents Complicates the Case Against Trump https://nyti.ms/3wpCu5l

politically it has effectively let former President Donald J. Trump off the hook for hoarding secret papers.

 

That could certainly be the case for his followers and there can be no question that politically this is damaging for Biden but any court case is not a matter of politics, its a matter of criminality and as that article says:

 

“Drawing relevant factual distinctions is a core function at D.O.J.,”

[vandeventer]

55 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Senators bewildered by Pence classified document revelation

 

Senators on both sides of the aisle were caught off guard Tuesday by the news that classified documents were found at the Indiana home of former Vice President Mike Pence, materials that were ultimately turned over to the FBI.

An attorney for Pence told the National Archives that the former vice president used outside counsel to review records stored at his personal home after several classified documents were found at the home and a former office of President Biden. The Pence news left some Senate lawmakers floored over yet another discovery of classified documents belonging to a former vice president.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3828860-senators-bewildered-by-pence-classified-document-revelation/

 

 

Pence is as clean as they come, so what does that say about the the rest? Watch out Obama and Bush you should be next.

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, vandeventer said:

Pence is as clean as they come, so what does that say about the the rest? Watch out Obama and Bush you should be next.

It says that many WH documents are over classified, presumably to keep them away from the press. They aren't even tracked apparently. I agree, if Pence has them all Presidents and VP's have them. The problem seems to be top secret documents, of which Biden is reported to have at least one. The main issue for prosecutors would be intent and cooperation with the DOJ and FBI when they are discovered.

[candide]

A comparison of the three cases.by AP

Key quotes:

"PENCE AND BIDEN: There is no indication either was aware of the existence of the records before they were found and turned over.

It appears both sides turned over the records quickly, without intent to conceal. That’s important because the Justice Department historically looks for willfulness, or an intent to mishandle government secrets, in deciding whether to bring criminal charges."

 

"TRUMP: The former president possibly faces exposure for obstruction over the protracted battle to retrieve the documents. And, since he’s no longer in office, he wouldn’t be afforded protections from possible prosecution."

 

https://apnews.com/article/biden-politics-united-states-government-us-department-of-justice-michael-pence-7e616d65db8a76a078d1ec9268c13a77

 

 

[Scott]

Troll post and reply removed.

 

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, ozimoron said:

It says that many WH documents are over classified, presumably to keep them away from the press. They aren't even tracked apparently. I agree, if Pence has them all Presidents and VP's have them. The problem seems to be top secret documents, of which Biden is reported to have at least one. The main issue for prosecutors would be intent and cooperation with the DOJ and FBI when they are discovered.

That really isn't the main legal problem. In fact, it's not a legal problem at all. It is a political problem. 

[Hanaguma]

Predictably, this discussion has turned into a "NABAT" festival- "Not As Bad As Trump".  

 

How about letting each situation rise and fall on its own merits?

[placeholder]

17 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Predictably, this discussion has turned into a "NABAT" festival- "Not As Bad As Trump".  

 

How about letting each situation rise and fall on its own merits?

It's the Trump people who keep on comparing these cases to Trump and claiming double standards. And it's not a matter of "not being as bad as Trump" but rather a question of criminality. As has been exhaustively pointed out, there is no evidence so far of criminality in the cases of Biden or Pence. No evidence that Biden or Pence defied their legal counsel, no evidence that they refused to return documents when requested by the govt, and no evidence that they obstructed justice by lying about possession of these documents.

[Hanaguma]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

It's the Trump people who keep on comparing these cases to Trump and claiming double standards. And it's not a matter of "not being as bad as Trump" but rather a question of criminality. As has been exhaustively pointed out, there is no evidence so far of criminality in the cases of Biden or Pence. No evidence that Biden or Pence defied their legal counsel, no evidence that they refused to return documents when requested by the govt, and no evidence that they obstructed justice by lying about possession of these documents.

In other words, NABAT.  

 

Funny that your very first post in this discussion was:

 

 It's clear that there's a very strong case against him (Trump) for obstruction of Justice.

Whereas in the Biden case, it's not at all clear that it was Biden who took these documents.

 

In other words, NABAT.

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

In other words, NABAT.  

 

Funny that your very first post in this discussion was:

 

 It's clear that there's a very strong case against him (Trump) for obstruction of Justice.

Whereas in the Biden case, it's not at all clear that it was Biden who took these documents.

 

In other words, NABAT.

A misleading partial quote from you. I was responding to this assertion: 

"Sounds like you are saying possessing classified docs is legal until one is caught. I'm no lawyer, but it sounds a false assertion."

Obviously this was false and what better way to set this person straight than to cite the current overwhelmingly salient example. Not that that was on their mind in the least.

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

In other words, NABAT.  

 

Funny that your very first post in this discussion was:

 

 It's clear that there's a very strong case against him (Trump) for obstruction of Justice.

Whereas in the Biden case, it's not at all clear that it was Biden who took these documents.

 

In other words, NABAT.

And, of course, this is your way of distracting from misleadingly representing the varying cases. It's not about "not as bad as" it's about criminality.

[dotcalm]

Majority of voters, including Democrats, believe Biden’s mishandling of classified documents is a scandal

"But even more damning for the president is that 60% of all voters believe it is likely that information from those classified documents “was used by Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, in his foreign business deals”. Fully 44% believe it is “very likely.” 

 

https://nypost.com/2023/01/29/majority-of-voters-believe-bidens-mishandling-of-classified-documents-is-a-scandal/

 

If Biden's deep state protection breaks down under a full on congressional investigation and and unbiased special counsel look see, Biden's days are over, officially, and he will have the distinction of being a corrupt and treasonous felon.   America KNOWS how corrupt he is. Incredible that he is in the WH.