1 hour ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Reportedly, Thailand is short on employees, esp. in the tourism industry. Also, unemployment is barely above 1%. At the same time, the Labour Minister announces a 'crackdown against foreigners with no work permits'... - What's going on? Is it general election time yet?

"...unemployment is barely above 1%"

If you'll believe that you'll believe anything. For one thing, Thailand doesn't have a proper system of measuring employment/unemployment. Also, many older Thai people live with their children, in the UK/other western countries they would be living independently of their children, and classed as unemployed.

In Western countries is often said that realistically the lowest that unemployment is likley to be is 5%.

Exactly what is considered as work?

 

If cutting my own grass in my own home (wife's officially) is work, then what about cooking my own food in my own kitchen? Can I do the washing up? Can I do my own washing rather than using a laundry service? Is wiping my own backside considered work rather than paying for a Thai to do it for me.

 

If laws need to be followed (which of course they should), then the laws must me published, unambiguous, specific and clear.

 

 

15 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Why? if they are retired and just assisting with the daily chores like setting up tables to help the overworked wife with no customers in the shop, or when driving her to the local Talad to buy the days produce and meat, does one need a chauffer's license...Some of the most stupid things this country does to make life for some people hard. 

 

I was out trimming the trees on the now ex-wifes property surrounding the house, back when we were married, and I was living outside of Udon Thani.  A few local police arrived and they asked me what I was doing with the chainsaw, and when I pointed to the piles of limbs, they called the wife out.  I was told it was illegal for me to have a Chainsaw and to be out cutting the limbs from the trees, as I needed a work permit and a special license for the chainsaw.  So I sold the chainsaw to the neighbor and instead hired some Cambodian workers who worked for her  in her Rubber Tree orchard to cut the branches up.  Oh and I still used the wood after it dried to make Charcoal for the home barbeque I had made from Bricks and Mortar which looked like this

 

Guess I was still needing a work permit to build the BBQ....just so I could cook, which I must still need a work permit for since cooking is a job a Thai can do.

In such a climate of 'crackdowns', I would be worried building something like this by myself.

6 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Of course are the numbers questionable. -

I was just wondering why now there was (another) such crackdown.

looking for those businesses not paying taxes or registering one could surmise.

2 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

In such a climate of 'crackdowns', I would be worried building something like this by myself.

And is why I just bought a Weber BBQ for my house here in PKK....lol.  Glad I now live in a gated Moo Ban.

6 hours ago, Elkski said:

What about those pesky guys selling fake watches.  They can really pester you.  They are so obvious on soi Cowboy. They must pay off police.   No work permit I bet.  

A friend of mine, now sadly passed, used to ask to see their work permit whenever he was approached on Cowboy. They soon scuttled off. As for paying off the police, they don't care.

43 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Why? if they are retired and just assisting with the daily chores like setting up tables to help the overworked wife with no customers in the shop, or when driving her to the local Talad to buy the days produce and meat, does one need a chauffer's license...Some of the most stupid things this country does to make life for some people hard. 

 

I was out trimming the trees on the now ex-wifes property surrounding the house, back when we were married, and I was living outside of Udon Thani.  A few local police arrived and they asked me what I was doing with the chainsaw, and when I pointed to the piles of limbs, they called the wife out.  I was told it was illegal for me to have a Chainsaw and to be out cutting the limbs from the trees, as I needed a work permit and a special license for the chainsaw.  So I sold the chainsaw to the neighbor and instead hired some Cambodian workers who worked for her  in her Rubber Tree orchard to cut the branches up.  Oh and I still used the wood after it dried to make Charcoal for the home barbeque I had made from Bricks and Mortar which looked like this

 

Guess I was still needing a work permit to build the BBQ....just so I could cook, which I must still need a work permit for since cooking is a job a Thai can do.

sorry to hear that happen, must have been an excuse to collect tea money. In the ends it depends from the district/province you live in, some have people that understand wives needs their husband's help other just play by the rules making lives harder than they should be, Beautiful BBQ btw

2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

@MistyDid your digital work permit ever get completed.  

Yes, thanks, the BoI got the system between them and DoE working at last.  It's a 5 year work permit, and there was no mention of a need to report to anyone every 3-6 months so wondering what that's all ab out.

30 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

And is why I just bought a Weber BBQ for my house here in PKK....lol.  Glad I now live in a gated Moo Ban.

Gated moobaan is the way to go, the police need permission to enter, and my wife runs the moobaan security.

 

Back to the OP,

Says 'foreigners' which usually means non-Thai Asians.

6 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Why my GF shut her shop down....ugh.

It’s a bizarre thing to want to reserve for Thai’s isn’t it?

Can I apply for the ministry of justice job??? 

4 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

Mowing your own lawn? You could/should be employing a Thai person to do that.

I had an old friend that lived in Phuket and used to worry about pruning his Lime trees, just waiting for the immigration police to show up!

I dare say your old friend is either paranoid, a bit dim, or both.

6 hours ago, SABloke said:

Why would they care? I think it's more a case of some restaurant owners trying to weed out the competition. 

Restaurant owners complain about other restaurants all the time.  Dated a girl in Pat's that went ballistic if I even picked up a bottle that was on a table. She was doing well and all one of the other shops had to do was call customs and report a farang picking up dishes and she would tto go through all the customs bs

 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Welcome to Thailand.. 

Other countries don't punish foreigners working illegally?

21 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Gated moobaan is the way to go, the police need permission to enter, and my wife runs the moobaan security.

 

Back to the OP,

Says 'foreigners' which usually means non-Thai Asians.

The problem is that it is the non Thai Asians that 3and 4star hotels need to hire.

1 hour ago, Woof999 said:

Exactly what is considered as work?

 

If cutting my own grass in my own home (wife's officially) is work, then what about cooking my own food in my own kitchen? Can I do the washing up? Can I do my own washing rather than using a laundry service? Is wiping my own backside considered work rather than paying for a Thai to do it for me.

 

Do you really need help to understand? Really?

 

Quote

If laws need to be followed (which of course they should), then the laws must me published, unambiguous, specific and clear.

They are published, unambiguous, specific and clear. You can look them up.

You cannot legally employ a foreigner without a work permit. To obtain a work permit you have to meet certain (published) criteria. And some very specific jobs are reserved for Thais only. This list is regularly updated and published, there'll usually be an AN article about and everyone in here laughs at it.

5 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Do you really need help to understand? Really?

 

They are published, unambiguous, specific and clear. You can look them up.

You cannot legally employ a foreigner without a work permit. To obtain a work permit you have to meet certain (published) criteria. And some very specific jobs are reserved for Thais only. This list is regularly updated and published, there'll usually be an AN article about and everyone in here laughs at it.

Thanks for the reply.

 

There are two sides to the same coin. You cannot employ a foreigner who doesn't hold a work permit and a foreigner without a work permit cannot work.

 

I'm my examples, would I be considered as working in any of the situations?

 

If yes to some but not to others, what is the difference?

 

Would my wife be considered as hiring a foreigner without a work permit (because work does not necessarily entail compensation).

 

...and yes, although you could infer a level of sarcasm or criticism from my post, I really do need help to understand. There are certainly grey areas and I'd rather have them closer to black and white.

7 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

Thanks for the reply.

 

There are two sides to the same coin. You cannot employ a foreigner who doesn't hold a work permit and a foreigner without a work permit cannot work.

Not exactly. First of all if you want to hire someone you first need to apply for permission to hire a foreigner for that role. Whether you get permission or not depends on your company status and the details of the role.  If you receive permission you can issue documents for that person to apply for a Non B visa and travel to Thailand with the intention of working. Once they arrive you then apply for that particular person to fill the role you have approval for. Wether permission is granted or not depends on the qualifications and experience of that person. At least that is the process for BOI companies, I assume it is the same for non BOI companies (I have never worked for one).

 

Quote

I'm my examples, would I be considered as working in any of the situations?

 

If yes to some but not to others, what is the difference?

 

Would my wife be considered as hiring a foreigner without a work permit (because work does not necessarily entail compensation).

 

...and yes, although you could infer a level of sarcasm or criticism from my post, I really do need help to understand. There are certainly grey areas and I'd rather have them closer to black and white.

Sorry, I thought you were being facetious. No, none of the examples you cited would be classified as working.

 

5 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

Mowing your own lawn? You could/should be employing a Thai person to do that.

I had an old friend that lived in Phuket and used to worry about pruning his Lime trees, just waiting for the immigration police to show up!

Yes. I sweep the forecourt to the house every morning and do a bit of gardening in full view of passers by. Who in the village will report me? Perhaps I should just stop 

A "crackdown" usually occurs after the police have suffered a tremendous loss of face and need to be seen taking action against people not paying sufficiently to avoid arrest.

It happens. But i don't get why a husband can't help his wife or even why permanent residents aren't allowed to work without a permit. 

1 hour ago, ourmanflint said:

It’s a bizarre thing to want to reserve for Thai’s isn’t it?

Yes, she ran her salon here in Bangkok for 5 years, while also running one in the Philippines, where I met here. She had 3 employees prior to covid and she is a certified Paul Mitchell colorist. With covid she sold the Cebu shop and then had to close the one in BKK. When she could finally reopen she only had 2 employees and when they stopped by to check told her she could not style hair or color hair anymore like before as it was a job fir Thais. So she closed up shop and her two Thai workers were unemployed. Luckily she had money stored away and a paid for home in Nonthaburi and in Myanmar. Now she is my personal barber....work permit pending for working in a Salon as a cleaner....

Meanwhile thousands of Thais work illegally in Korea, Taiwan, Australia etc. The only decent workers we have had on the house have been Cambodians, Thais either do a bad job, too expensive or don't turn up.

10 hours ago, 2baht said:

.....................of course there are jobs that Thai's will not do, they think it's below them!

The Burmese that I personally know are all legal in Thailand, have their papers and follow rules . Cooks, waiters ,cleaning staff , great people . Maybe the construction sites that employ foreigners mostly poor Cambodians etc  fiddle the books , but they should also be made responsible.. Apparently the fishing industry is one of the hardest and cruelest industry in Thailand, told to me a few years ago in Hua Hin. 

4 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

I was just wondering why now there was (another) such crackdown.

Small Schlong Syndrome?

 

11 hours ago, webfact said:

You must have a work permit to work in the kingdom and you must not do jobs reserved for Thai people.

I totally understand that and rightly so. However, most Thais have very poor work ethic, do not show up or have absolutely no sense of what they have been hired for. Not even if you explain it to them 10 times. And this is the experience of my Thai wife who has her own shop.
 

If they made it easier to hire foreigners legally then this wouldn't be an issue. Businesses are reluctant to hire legally because of all the bureaucracy, time, labor, and money involved. Not to mention the process takes too long.

Korea “…..What?”

 

Thai illegal worker (without work permits) in South Korea estimates 140k now. Only 18,000 Thais have work permits. 

I suppose digital nomads slip through a crack or maybe not but I had the displeasure of trying to enjoy a beverage and some scenery while two of them were clacking away on their laptops discussing an obvious online marketplace.  Seemed rather bold if this is illegal and definitely irritating either way.  What makes people think we want to sit in their office space? Would have loved to see a cop walk in and ask for their work permits I must say.

3 hours ago, peter zwart said:

I totally understand that and rightly so. However, most Thais have very poor work ethic, do not show up or have absolutely no sense of what they have been hired for. Not even if you explain it to them 10 times. And this is the experience of my Thai wife who has her own shop.
 

Sadly it's been my experience also. They complain they are bored when there are no customers or they are overwhelmed when it's busy.  I call it The Goldirocks Syndrome.

15 hours ago, Elkski said:

What about those pesky guys selling fake watches.  They can really pester you.  They are so obvious on soi Cowboy. They must pay off police.   No work permit I bet.  

They are likely Thai nationals. There are alot of Indians born here, with Thai passports.