Japan PM says country on the brink over falling birth rate

[Scott]

 

Japan's prime minister says his country is on the brink of not being able to function as a society because of its falling birth rate.

Fumio Kishida said it was a case of "now or never."

Japan - population 125 million - is estimated to have had fewer than 800,000 births last year. In the 1970s, that figure was more than two million.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-64373950

[heybruce]

Simple solution:  Increase immigration.  Japan would have no problem finding young, hard working people willing to work on long-term or permanent visas.  Language would be a problem, but not an insurmountable one.

 

Of course Japan is not alone in refusing to see the benefits of intelligent managed immigration.

[Mac Mickmanus]

27 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Simple solution:  Increase immigration.  Japan would have no problem finding young, hard working people willing to work on long-term or permanent visas.  Language would be a problem, but not an insurmountable one.

 

Of course Japan is not alone in refusing to see the benefits of intelligent managed immigration.

There should be a clause in their visa status that they need to impregnate a Japanese woman  within three years or no visa extension 

[Hanaguma]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

Simple solution:  Increase immigration.  Japan would have no problem finding young, hard working people willing to work on long-term or permanent visas.  Language would be a problem, but not an insurmountable one.

 

Of course Japan is not alone in refusing to see the benefits of intelligent managed immigration.

You are absolutely right.  But the sad fact is that most Japanese would rather see their country slowly depopulate and keep its culture intact, rather than allow immigration and face the spectre of change.  

 

For most young people, having kids just isnt a priority.  Companies basically have no accommodation for parents and their responsibililties.  Women who get pregnant are 'encouraged' to retire, and men who ask for paternity leave are given the serious hairy eyeball.  

[Hanaguma]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

There should be a clause in their visa status that they need to impregnate a Japanese woman  within three years or no visa extension 

I am sure thousands of men would be more than willing to volunteer!  I did...  still have my visa too. 

 

...guess it works!

[JonnyF]

People often bemoan our home countries for poor attitudes towards foreigners, tough immigration laws, feelings of racial superiority, fear of outsiders, gender inequality, poor working conditions, evil elites etc. However, most of them cannot hold a candle to Japan in this regard. Obviously Japan gets a free pass for all of this, because "it's their culture" (which is basically a euphemism for "they're not white so don't you dare criticize them").  

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-63830490

 

The entitled elites have screwed the working man to the point they can't afford/don't want a family and simultaneously they don't want the evil foreigner coming in. Well, they've made their bed, so they're going to have to deal with the issues of an ageing population and falling birth rates.

 

 

[placeholder]

37 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

People often bemoan our home countries for poor attitudes towards foreigners, tough immigration laws, feelings of racial superiority, fear of outsiders, gender inequality, poor working conditions, evil elites etc. However, most of them cannot hold a candle to Japan in this regard. Obviously Japan gets a free pass for all of this, because "it's their culture" (which is basically a euphemism for "they're not white so don't you dare criticize them").  

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-63830490

You on right-wing automatic pilot much? You link to an article from the BBC no less, one of the media bugbears of the right. An article that is very critical of Japanese culture. Yet you claim that Japanese culture gets a pass. Obsessed much?

 

 

[save the frogs]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Japanese would rather see their country slowly depopulate and keep its culture intact

should all culture be watered down?

travel would become virtually pointless.

 

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

should all culture be watered down?

travel would become virtually pointless.

 

Japanese culture has been getting "diluted" ever since Japan opened up to the west in the 19th century. If that hadn't happened, Western tourists to Japan would likely be met with a fatal reception.

[JonnyF]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You on right-wing automatic pilot much? You link to an article from the BBC no less, one of the media bugbears of the right. An article that is very critical of Japanese culture. Yet you claim that Japanese culture gets a pass. Obsessed much?

 

 

You on left wing guard duty much? ????

 

Yes it was the BBC. Which is why, if you read the article, you'd see it was all dressed up in a veneer of "Oh isn't it all so quaint and charming".

 

 

Somehow, I doubt the BBC would be doing the same for UK/US based misogyny, xenophobia, elitism etc. 

 

Actually, if it came from a Labour MP maybe they would...

Edited January 24, 2023 by JonnyF

[Skallywag]

Does Japan need an increasing population?  Why? Sustainability is key for any country, more people does not mean more wealth, just noise, congestioin, stress, less parking, more infrastructure challenges, etc..etc...  Countries like Haiti decimated their arable lands because of uncontrolled population and now starvation, poverty, and malnutrition is rampant. 

 

[BritManToo]

Any country that gives women choices will face a falling Population. 

The countries that give women no choices will inherit the world. 

[save the frogs]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Japanese culture has been getting "diluted" ever since Japan opened up to the west in the 19th century. If that hadn't happened, Western tourists to Japan would likely be met with a fatal reception.

to what extent should we allow cultures to get diluted?

in the extreme case, every corner of the globe will become identical and there would be no reason to travel. 

 

[placeholder]

13 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

You on left wing guard duty much? ????

 

Yes it was the BBC. Which is why, if you read the article, you'd see it was all dressed up in a veneer of "Oh isn't it all so quaint and charming".

 

 

Somehow, I doubt the BBC would be doing the same for UK/US based misogyny, xenophobia, elitism etc. 

 

Actually, if it came from a Labour MP maybe they would...

You claimed that "Japan gets a free pass" because its people are nonwhite. Obviously, it didn't in this article. Far, far from it. It certainly did not trivialize these problems. Just the opposite. 

 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

to what extent should we allow cultures to get diluted?

in the extreme case, every corner of the globe will become identical and there would be no reason to travel. 

 

Because everyone will be speaking Esperanto?

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

There should be a clause in their visa status that they need to impregnate a Japanese woman  within three years or no visa extension 

As the author notes, the Japanese generally aren't too fond of mixed race children. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by placeholder

[Hanaguma]

18 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

Does Japan need an increasing population?  Why? Sustainability is key for any country, more people does not mean more wealth, just noise, congestioin, stress, less parking, more infrastructure challenges, etc..etc...  Countries like Haiti decimated their arable lands because of uncontrolled population and now starvation, poverty, and malnutrition is rampant. 

 

Given the huge problems of public debt here, yes they do.  More people are retiring and fewer people are paying into the social safety net.  It is not a sustainable model. Perhaps not a quickly increasing population, but even a stable one, would make for a better future. 

[Hanaguma]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

As the author notes, the Japanese generally aren't too fond of mixed race children. 

The author is wrong.   I have lived here more than twice as long as him, worked in the public school system, and sent my son through it as well.    If anything, mixed kids get the superstar treatment.   I suspect he lived a rather sheltered expat life in Tokyo, as do many international journalists.  

[decline]

not having children, very wise

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Skallywag said:

Does Japan need an increasing population?  Why? Sustainability is key for any country, more people does not mean more wealth, just noise, congestioin, stress, less parking, more infrastructure challenges, etc..etc...  Countries like Haiti decimated their arable lands because of uncontrolled population and now starvation, poverty, and malnutrition is rampant. 

 

If Japan wants enough working age people to support its elderly, it needs more young people, and it looks like encouraging Japanese women to make more babies isn't working.  Intelligently managed immigration would help. 

 

Whether slowing the decline in population, halting the decline or increasing the population is the best approach is open to debate.  However maintaining the status quo is asking for trouble in the form of an impoverished nation and neglected senior citizens.

 

A lot of countries will eventually face the same problem.  How Japan responds will give instruction on what to do or not do.

 

 

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

You claimed that "Japan gets a free pass" because its people are nonwhite. Obviously, it didn't in this article. Far, far from it. It certainly did not trivialize these problems. Just the opposite. 

 

It got a massive pass. Fluffy edges and excuses all round. For example...

 

 

I wonder if he'd have been so accepting, forgiving and nostalgic about misogyny, sexual inequality, opposition to immigration, elitism and xenophobia in the West? Somehow, I doubt it...

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

People often bemoan our home countries for poor attitudes towards foreigners, tough immigration laws, feelings of racial superiority, fear of outsiders, gender inequality, poor working conditions, evil elites etc. However, most of them cannot hold a candle to Japan in this regard. Obviously Japan gets a free pass for all of this, because "it's their culture" (which is basically a euphemism for "they're not white so don't you dare criticize them").  

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-63830490

 

The entitled elites have screwed the working man to the point they can't afford/don't want a family and simultaneously they don't want the evil foreigner coming in. Well, they've made their bed, so they're going to have to deal with the issues of an ageing population and falling birth rates.

 

 

No problem really, just invent robots to look after the old people- problem solved.

 

If I were a lot younger I'd probably have been interested in living there, but I started to learn about Japan and the culture too late in life, and anyway, it's just too expensive.

Thailand is as close as I'll ever get to Japan.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Given the huge problems of public debt here, yes they do.  More people are retiring and fewer people are paying into the social safety net.  It is not a sustainable model. Perhaps not a quickly increasing population, but even a stable one, would make for a better future. 

I doubt anything is going to make Japanese women decide that popping out children equals a good life. They have emerged from a patriarchal society where they were subservient to husbands and IMO they ain't going back to it. I don't blame them in the slightest.

 

As for having babies, if men had to carry them around for 9 months with morning sickness, stretch marks, etc IMO the human race would have died out long ago.

If I were to wake up a fertile woman one day, no way would any man get to impregnate me- no sex without a certificate of vasectomy and a recent test.

I've actually seen loads of women giving birth as part of my job, and nothing about it is worth it IMO.

[BritManToo]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

As for having babies, if men had to carry them around for 9 months with morning sickness, stretch marks, etc IMO the human race would have died out long ago.

Speak for yourself, I would have had 10 children and the rest of my life financed by the state (or the other parent).

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

The author is wrong.   I have lived here more than twice as long as him, worked in the public school system, and sent my son through it as well.    If anything, mixed kids get the superstar treatment.   I suspect he lived a rather sheltered expat life in Tokyo, as do many international journalists.  

Perhaps it's a male thing.

If you had had a daughter, would she have been treated as a superstar?

[placeholder]

45 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

It got a massive pass. Fluffy edges and excuses all round. For example...

 

 

I wonder if he'd have been so accepting, forgiving and nostalgic about misogyny, sexual inequality, opposition to immigration, elitism and xenophobia in the West? Somehow, I doubt it...

Cherrypicking much?

[heybruce]

20 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No problem really, just invent robots to look after the old people- problem solved.

Right, it's so easy.  I wonder why it hasn't been done already.

 

(Sarcasm, for those who don't recognize it.)

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Given the huge problems of public debt here, yes they do.  More people are retiring and fewer people are paying into the social safety net.  It is not a sustainable model. Perhaps not a quickly increasing population, but even a stable one, would make for a better future. 

IMO the answer is not ever more people- planet earth is being destroyed by too many.

If we were able to build a rocket to go to the moon using slide rules, we can find a better way, if we want to- I suspect we don't really want to deal with it- so much easier just to breed more people.

 

Just a thought, but if Japan doesn't want to let in more immigrants, send the old people to other countries with high unemployment to be looked after.

 

More people are retiring and fewer people are paying into the social safety net. 

 

I suspect that Japan is very wealthy, but most of the wealth is in the hands of very few, as in most countries. Let's redistribute the wealth then. Problem solved.

Edited January 24, 2023 by thaibeachlovers

[Hanaguma]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps it's a male thing.

If you had had a daughter, would she have been treated as a superstar?

Yes.  It has happened to many of my friends, as well as (perhaps a random example) the fact that Miss Japan winners lately have been biracial.  Other than that, there are many successful biracial ladies here.

[Bkk Brian]

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

Simple solution:  Increase immigration.  Japan would have no problem finding young, hard working people willing to work on long-term or permanent visas.  Language would be a problem, but not an insurmountable one.

 

Of course Japan is not alone in refusing to see the benefits of intelligent managed immigration.

Unfortunately when there was this sort of rhetoric deep within the government then the benefits of intelligent immigration was never going to happen.

 

Japan PM ex-adviser praises apartheid in embarrassment for Abe

Ayako Sono, considered part of Abe’s informal brain trust, set off a wave of online fury this week when she wrote in the conservative Sankei newspaper that South Africa’s former policies of racial separation had been good for whites, Asians and Africans.

Her comments could complicate Abe’s efforts to address a deepening labor shortage and his efforts to burnish the country’s image abroad, analysts say.

In a column entitled “Let Them In - But Keep a Distance”, Sono said Japan should open its doors to more foreign workers, especially to care for the growing numbers of elderly, but should make them live separately from Japanese.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-apartheid-idUSKBN0LH0M420150213