Permanently Leaving the UK

[Negita43]

Not sure where to post this so apologies if it's in the wrong place.

 

I own a flat in the UK and spend time there with my Thai partner and we also spend time in Thailand.

 

The costs associated with this are becoming difficult to sustain - airfares have nearly doubled over the last few years, I have to pay council tax etc. and heat the flat whilst not there (insurance requirement) so I am considering selling the flat and being based solely in Thailand.

 

If I do this I believe I then have to inform the UK Government

 

Has any UK poster been through the process and can they give me any pointers. As I say I'm just looking at all the options at the moment.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

In case you didn't do it already: First make sure you are legally able to stay permanently in Thailand for years without any possible legal trouble.

 

[ubonjoe]

Moved to UK and Europe sub forum of the home country forum.

[OJAS]

Are you planning to live on retirement in Thailand (only possible if you are at least 50 years old) or work here? The advice which can best be given to you on here is IMHO dependent on the answer to that particular question.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by OJAS

[Negita43]

Just now, OJAS said:

Are you planning to live on retirement in Thailand (only possible if you are at least 50 years old) or work here? The advice which can best be given to you on here is dependent on the answer to that particular question.

79 been here on and off for over 12 years first on Work Permit now on Retirement Extension.

[steve187]

have you looked into renting flat out, no need to inform Uk govenment of anything.

[Negita43]

2 minutes ago, steve187 said:

have you looked into renting flat out, no need to inform Uk govenment of anything.

Scotland - Rentals favour the renter one option is to sell and buy in England where the rules are better.. As I say I am just looking at all the options and really just want to know if anyone has been through the "official" process and what the pitfalls etc are

Edited January 31, 2023 by Negita43

[MRToMRT]

39 minutes ago, Negita43 said:

If I do this I believe I then have to inform the UK Government

I never have. If you submit a yearly tax self assessment or company taxes then your accountant could deal with that or you could state it on your next tax self assessment.

 

If you are on PAYE then nothing to do. 

 

 

 

 

[Negita43]

1 hour ago, MRToMRT said:

I never have. If you submit a yearly tax self assessment or company taxes then your accountant could deal with that or you could state it on your next tax self assessment.

Thanks and I only say this as information not as a criticism but if you get a UK pension then  how do you receive it  and the UK pension is frozen at the level when you left the country - no cost of living increases. These are exactly what I am trying to explore before any decision.

[KhunLA]

You're 79 years old ... sell the damn thing, unless your partner will need for income after you ascend to the next dimension. 

[Negita43]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You're 79 years old ... sell the damn thing, unless your partner will need for income after you ascend to the next dimension. 

Ascend ?? more like Descend????

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, Negita43 said:

If I do this I believe I then have to inform the UK Government

 

Has any UK poster been through the process and can they give me any pointers. As I say I'm just looking at all the options at the moment.

Don't tell anyone where you are going or what you are doing.

Leave your home address at it is now.

Nobody ever checks you still live there. 

[BritManToo]

49 minutes ago, Negita43 said:

Thanks and I only say this as information not as a criticism but if you get a UK pension then  how do you receive it  and the UK pension is frozen at the level when you left the country - no cost of living increases. These are exactly what I am trying to explore before any decision.

Pension goes to your current bank account in the UK (using existing UK address).

Use your UK bank phone app to transfer money to 'WISE' in the UK.

Use your 'WISE' bank phone app to transfer money to your Thai bank. 

Edited January 31, 2023 by BritManToo

[Chomper Higgot]

Do you have health insurance in Thailand?

 

If not think very carefully about the options ahead of you if you do indeed move to Thailand.

 

Not just how you’ll pay for healthcare but also the burden of care on your wife.

 

 

[beau thai]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Do you have health insurance in Thailand?

 

If not think very carefully about the options ahead of you if you do indeed move to Thailand.

 

Not just how you’ll pay for healthcare but also the burden of care on your wife.

 

 

very good advice.

some keep a uk address (friend/relative) for mail/bank etc and register with GP local to that address -in case you need NHS later. after all, you are just going to be on a long holiday in thailand!.

[Negita43]

55 minutes ago, beau thai said:

very good advice.

some keep a uk address (friend/relative) for mail/bank etc and register with GP local to that address -in case you need NHS later. after all, you are just going to be on a long holiday in thailand!.

Ho Ho - NHS - one of the reasons I am considering it - this  may have been true in the past but now you have to go through trial by triage to see a doctor and if you are lucky a 6 month wait to see a consultant. I don't have insurance (too expensive at my age) but hospitals here aren't too bad and they are very quick to see you just had an MRI for knee - needs joint replacement but at 79 you have to weigh  up the cost benefit (for how long)

Edited January 31, 2023 by Negita43

[RayC]

Not sure who you are legally obliged to inform but I would inform, at least, the following: 1) HMRC re tax 2) DWP re pension 3) Local authority re council tax.

 

All the above assumes that you do not take other posters' advice and keep a UK address somewhere.

[Doctor Tom]

Beware doing anything in haste that you may later regret.   Depending on the type of visa and extensions awarded, the maximum allowable time you can legally say that you live in Thailand is 12 months,  Your visa is Non Immigrant, not immigrant, nor permanent resident. You are not legally obliged to tell any UK authority that you travel in and through foreign parts if you stick to the going back to the UK rules, which you can find on the 'Gov UK' website in the part dealing with residency and being domiciled. You dont have to do a thing now and not for quite a while, so take it slowly and do your research before telling the busy bodies in UK Gov what your plans are longer term.

. 

  https://www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/migrants/residence-and-domicile/when-someone-resident-uk#:~:text=If you are physically present,the UK for that year.

 

https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/residence

[Negita43]

25 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

Beware doing anything in haste that you may later regret.

That's exactly why I am asking the questions here - and thanks for the links that's exactly the sort of thing I was hoping to get.

[nigelforbes]

I was/am in a similar situation, I'm 73 and was splitting my year between the UK flat and here but covid interfered and normal service has not yet resumed. Break the problem into its parts:

 

The NHS - is a residency based system, you need to be ordinarily resident there to use it free of charge, typically that means spending the past 6 months in the UK,m unless you're a returning expat who is coming back to settle for good.

 

UK State Pension - is also based on where your settled home is in order to receive annual increases. This one is not straight forward and depends mostly on your life style rather than the number of days per year. Having all your finances in the UK helps this argument, having a UK address helps it even more, the number fo days is very last.

 

Council Tax - see the above, paying it means you have added argument in favour of your settled abode but is also expensive.

 

Utilities - this depends on what you decide to do with your flat of course but yes, it can get expensive. (I rent my flat out via an agent who handles everything)

 

HMRC - a key driver for this is the number of days you spend in the UK but it gets more complicated with the UK ties. Half of my income is offshore income so it behoves me not to be UK tax resident but I can't be that and remain eligible for the NHS also (so I'm not).

 

So if you are going to tell anyone, who do you tell? Not the NHS that's for sure. Council Tax people...only if you sell your flat or change tenants. HMRC, only if you want to be not UK resident for tax purposes but there needs to be a benefit for doing that. UK State Pension - hmmm, tricky this one. Technically you should, but!!! I did, my UK state pension is paid directly into my Thai bank, it makes life simple.

 

 

 

[2009]

6 hours ago, Negita43 said:

Scotland - Rentals favour the renter one option is to sell and buy in England where the rules are better.. As I say I am just looking at all the options and really just want to know if anyone has been through the "official" process and what the pitfalls etc are

What's the difference in the rules?

[2009]

If I were you, I'd rent it out. You'll get enough for your spending money here probably.

 

The tenant pays council tax, and keeps the pipes from freezing (hopefully).

 

The property will still be there for you, should you want to go back.

 

If you sell, I'd say that cash will be spent before you know it. Why not just live off rental income and allow the house to continue appreciating?

[nigelforbes]

I had been not UK resident from 2004 until 2018 and my pension was frozen during that time. In 2018 I bought a UK flat and went back for a few months. I easily argued that I was a returning expat and within a couple of months my pension was uprated. I have continued to receive increases until this last year when I informed DWP I was in Thailand and wanted my state pension paid to my Thai bank. In a couple of years or whenever, I may return and spend a few months there but not a until costs normalise. When I do I will once again argue I am a returning expat and my pension will be uprated. It's not important to me to receive increases every year but after a few years it might become important, it depends on your financial situation.

[Negita43]

13 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

I was/am in a similar situation, I'm 73 and was splitting my year between the UK flat and here but covid interfered and normal service has not yet resumed. Break the problem into its parts:

Yes, Covid affected me too (I was stuck in the UK for 2 years). so did you just write to the pension service or is there a form to fill in - and something else if you advise the pension service surely HMRC will know you are not resident since every year when I do my return the system already has my pension in it (and if no direct communication some eagle eyed official could see that the amount doesn't increase).

 

However, thank you very much for your post very useful - as Tesco says "every little helps"

Edited January 31, 2023 by Negita43

[Negita43]

6 minutes ago, 2009 said:

What's the difference in the rules?

In Scotland tenants have more security of tenure as far as I am aware landlords can't just terminate a tenancy. Even for non payment it can take a long time to get them out. Also the rules around letting are far more stringent than England.

[nigelforbes]

1 minute ago, Negita43 said:

Yes, Covid affected me too (I was stuck in the UK for 2 years). so did you just write to the pension service or is there a form to fill in - and something else if you advise the pension service surely HMRC will know you are not resident since every year when I do my return the system already has my pension in it (and if no direct communication some eagle eyed official could see that the amount doen't increase).

 

However, thank you very much for your post very useful - as Tesco says "every little helps"

You can telephone the pension service, they are easy to talk to and used to expats saying they are coming or going.

 

There's no relationship between DWP State Pension and HMRC residency for tax purposes, they can both be the same or different, one can change but the other not, and so on. HMRC won't notice anything from your state pension pavements because everybody's are different. Even if they did, getting increases or not is not a factor in determining whether you are UK resident or not for UK tax purposes. You could quite easily and legitimately be not UK resident for state pension purposes but UK resident for tax purposes. I went UK resident for tax purposes for two years and later, changed my mind and went back and changed the returns to not resident, on the advice of tax advisors...they didn't say anything.

 

[Negita43]

8 minutes ago, 2009 said:

If you sell, I'd say that cash will be spent before you know it. Why not just live off rental income and allow the house to continue appreciating?

Another factor to consider is that at 79 it would be far easier for my longstanding Thai partner to inherit more of and more easily my estate (even though I have a UK will in her  favour there would be solicitor fees etc). And I think I recall seeing somewhere that foreign currency transfers to Thais attract a government levy (don't ask me where I can't remember) - there is no death duty in Thailand ( not that I'm planning to pop off soon).

[nigelforbes]

If you rent out your flat in the UK and you have an attic to store your stuff, make sure you don't tell the council tax folks. If you do, that will mean the flat is not empty and you'll not get the tax free one month before and one month after a tenant leaves. 

[nigelforbes]

1 minute ago, Negita43 said:

Another factor to consider is that at 79 it would be far easier for my longstanding Thai partner to inherit more of and more easily my estate (even though I have a UK will in her  favour there would be solicitor fees etc). And I think I recall seeing somewhere that foreign currency transfers to Thais attract a government levy (don't ask me where I can't remember) - there is no death duty in Thailand ( not that I'm planning to pop off soon).

I know of no such levy, if others do I'll be keen to hear of it. It would be Probate Court disbursements, which are not taxable unless IH comes into play. Oh, and there's no capital gains tax on the flat when you die.

[Negita43]

Just now, nigelforbes said:

I know of no such levy, if others do I'll be keen to hear of it. It would be Probate Court disbursements, which are not taxable unless IH comes into play. Oh, and there's no capital gains tax on the flat when you die.

Sure, but there would be solicitors fees as they would be the executor and responsible for selling the flat and remitting monies with no-one really overseeing them (not that I'm paranoid - just cautious)!