British woman, 20, left for dead in hit and run motorbike crash faces being thrown out of Thai hospital despite horrifying injuries after being hit with £40,000 medical bill

[Ralf001]

16 minutes ago, kwilco said:

THere's nothing in my post or any other to suggest that - there seems to be a spate of people not reading or understanding posts before they post.

I read and understood your posts perfectly.

I choose not to engage though.

[Dazkkk]

Just insured my wife and son both hold duel Thai/UK Nationality) for their month long trip to Thailand and it cost £105 to cover both, but it doesn’t cover dangerous sports nor riding a motorcycle. Yes they are both covered under their Thai nationality, but even then she would never ride a motorcycle in Thailand. 

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

I read and understood your posts perfectly.

I choose not to engage though.

clearly you didn't

"

"3rd sentence your previous post mentions UK 3rd party.

Thats where I stopped reading"

[Puccini]

11 hours ago, BritManToo said:

...And this is the 1949 UN treaty ratified by Thailand in 1962, and the UK in 1957 (and Norway in 1957)

 

https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetailsV.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=XI-B-1&chapter=11&Temp=mtdsg5&clang=_en

 

I read on this forum some years ago that Thailand signed this treaty, the Convention on Road Traffic Geneva, 19 September 1949 (Geneva Convention, for short) but that Thailand never ratified or implememted it.

 

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, Puccini said:

I read on this forum some years ago that Thailand signed this treaty, the Convention on Road Traffic Geneva, 19 September 1949 (Geneva Convention, for short) but that Thailand never ratified or implememted it.

 

Yes "some years ago" - The Geneva treaty is now superseded by later treaties - the one now is the 1968 Vienna treaty - Thailand had signed up to that so it supersedes the Geneva treaty however they didn't RATIFY that treaty until 2020

 

this means that although in principle they were in principle agreeing with it, they didn't pass it into law until 2020.

the 1968 Vienna treaty sets out the format for an IDP and the categories that it recognises... for instance, Thailand specifically doesn't recognise mopeds as a category - to them all 2-wheelers are motorbikes.

Edited February 23, 2023 by kwilco

[kwilco]

14 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You're posting rubbish that has already been answered.

IDP and home country motor cycle driving licences are covered by the same 1949 UN treaty + Thai law section 42-2, in which either is valid for tourists in Thailand. Unless you're German, neither a German driving licence or German issued IDP is valid in Thailand as Germany didn't ratify the treaty.

 

German tourists and anyone intending to live in Thailand need a Thai driving licence the moment they enter Thailand. 

 

Section 42-2

 

MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY ACT (Thai Law)

https://driving-in-thailand.com/motor-vehicle-act/

Section 42

Anyone who wishes to drive a motor vehicle on public roads must possess an appropriate driver licence.

The driver must carry the driver licence and a photocopy of the registration book and show them to competent officers upon request.

This does not apply to those who are learning to drive a motor vehicle according to the provision of Section 57.

If the driver is an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa, he may drive a motor vehicle with a driver licence specified in the Section 42-2.

In such a case, he must carry documents specified by the treaty between the Thai government and the government which issued such driver licence, and show them to competent officers upon request.

Section 42-2
 

In case there is a treaty between the Thai government and a foreign government regarding mutual acceptance of driver licence, an alien who does not have an immigrant visa may drive a motor vehicle with a driver licence issued by such a foreign government, or an automobile association authorised by such a foreign government.

Once you obtain a non-immigrant visa or establish you are a resident (such as enrolling kids in school, buy a car etc,) and are no longer a toursit, you need a Thai drivers licence as your national license and international driving permit is only legally accepted if you are a tourist. Several insurance companies have  fine print stating that the driver should hold a valid Thai driving licence to be fully covered after a certain amount of time in Thailand.

 

And this is the 1949 UN treaty ratified by Thailand in 1962, and the UK in 1957 (and Norway in 1957)

 

https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetailsV.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=XI-B-1&chapter=11&Temp=mtdsg5&clang=_en

 

This treaty is now superseded by the Vienna treat of 1968 which Thailand ratified in 2020.

 

The UK licence is recognised by Thailand but now it really needs to be accompanied by an IDP, Before the EU / UK licence did have the right categories on it for the Vienna treaty and a photo and English language.

In Thailand if you have been in the country for 3 consecutive months, you should get a Thai licence as even if your IDP and home licence are still compliant, it is very likely that insurance companies will withdraw their cover.

You IDP is only valid as long as your home licence - so if you are banned at home , don't renew it or ir=t expires, so does your IDP - otherwise it lests for 3 years.

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by kwilco

[scubascuba3]

9 hours ago, Dazkkk said:

Just insured my wife and son both hold duel Thai/UK Nationality) for their month long trip to Thailand and it cost £105 to cover both, but it doesn’t cover dangerous sports nor riding a motorcycle. Yes they are both covered under their Thai nationality, but even then she would never ride a motorcycle in Thailand. 

An extra £10 would have covered motorcycles, many different policies available

[RichardColeman]

If only they could start taxing foreigners - say 300 baht on entry - to cover people not paying bills then they would be onto a winner (yeah, I know).

 

 

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

An extra £10 would have covered motorcycles, many different policies available

Well he said they will not be using  motorcycle so no point... but useful to know. I presume open only to those with a motorcycle licence. 

[BritManToo]

8 hours ago, kwilco said:

This treaty is now superseded by the Vienna treat of 1968 which Thailand ratified in 2020.

According to my link Thailand never ratified the 1968 UN Treaty.

https://unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/conventn/CP_Vienna_convention.pdf

 

But it shouldn't matter as both treaties allows use of your home country licence, and the IDP was only ever required when your home country license was not in English or not in the correct format.

Edited February 24, 2023 by BritManToo

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

Yeah been here for many years and have owned a lot of vehicles.

Not once have I had to produce/show drivers licence to get full comprehensive insurance.

 

 

 

 

 

Getting a policy isn't the same as getting a claim paid out. If the small print says you need a licence they'll take your money and refuse to honour a claim, based on no licence.

[Ralf001]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Getting a policy isn't the same as getting a claim paid out. If the small print says you need a licence they'll take your money and refuse to honour a claim, based on no licence.

Yeah I know how it works.

 

The poster whom I quoted has been wrong in this thread numerous times..... with his/her lack of knowledge am not sure why they persist in posting on the subject.

[Olmate]

19 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Yeah I know how it works.

 

The poster whom I quoted has been wrong in this thread numerous times..... with his/her lack of knowledge am not sure why they persist in posting on the subject.

 Not sure why the thread still running, all pretty basic stuff done over n over here.

[Cricky]

6 minutes ago, Olmate said:

 Not sure why the thread still running, all pretty basic stuff done over n over here.

Yep, I agree.

 

Foreigner arrives in Thailand without correct documentation regarding insurance and licensing then due to its own Incompetence finds themselves in a situation then begs (gofundme etc) for money, giving Thailand a bad reputation.

 

Happens too many times. 

 

[scubascuba3]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Well he said they will not be using  motorcycle so no point... but useful to know. I presume open only to those with a motorcycle licence. 

Even if a slight chance of using a motorcycle it's worth including it on travel insurance, they might change their mind once here, but yes an IDP or Thai licence is required

[Jimjim1]

On 2/23/2023 at 12:46 PM, Ralf001 said:

Yeah been here for many years and have owned a lot of vehicles.

Not once have I had to produce/show drivers licence to get full comprehensive insurance.

Exactly my point so why do you keep on arguing it

[kwilco]

7 hours ago, BritManToo said:

According to my link Thailand never ratified the 1968 UN Treaty.

https://unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/conventn/CP_Vienna_convention.pdf

 

But it shouldn't matter as both treaties allows use of your home country licence, and the IDP was only ever required when your home country license was not in English or not in the correct format.

Your list is from 2007! -

 

As I said earlier Thailand didn't ratify until 2020.

 

the problem is that there are different IDPs that relate to different treaties each successive treaty supersedes the one before.

Up until 2020 you could argue that an IDP wasn't needed - "as I said earlier" - but now you would be well advised to have one as stipulated by the treaty.

 

BTW - anyone on a non-imm visa for more than 3 months should probably have a Thai licence.

 

Vienna Road Traffic Convention 1968

 

https://treaties.un.org/pages/ViewDetailsIII.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=XI-B-19&chapter=11

 

Thailand ratified on May 1st 2020

 

Signed 8th November 1968

 

       "Thailand will not be bound by article 52 of this Convention.
       "Thailand will consider mopeds as motor-cycles."

  

Edited February 24, 2023 by kwilco

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Up until 2020 you could argue that an IDP wasn't needed - "as I said earlier" - but now you would be well advised to have one as stipulated by the treaty.

I live with a Thai woman and have a Thai child, so I'm not a tourist and so require a Thai driving licence.

Edited February 24, 2023 by BritManToo

[kwilco]

15 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I live with a Thai woman and have a Thai child, so I'm not a tourist and so require a Thai driving licence.

Yes as I said earlier -- good boy!

Edited February 24, 2023 by kwilco

[Harsh Jones]

Is there any evidence that there was even another motorcycle involved? Other than what she is claiming ?

 

How does 2 bikes get in a head on and one rides away unscathed ? It doesn't work like that. It is never a coincidence that inexperienced riders crash in gradual speed corners. They don't know how to ride. They don't understand the concept of counter steering. 

[kwilco]

10 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

An extra £10 would have covered motorcycles, many different policies available

This depends on the insurance company.

Soe won't cover motorcycles - period

Others may for an extra charge or it may be included.

the next ting is what TYPE of M/Cs are covered. 

As I said earlier Staysure include it in their policy but only up to 125 cc and don't offer an extra option.

So eve if you pay your ten quid, you may find you are only insured up to 125 cc.

[kwilco]

7 minutes ago, Harsh Jones said:

Is there any evidence that there was even another motorcycle involved? Other than what she is claiming ?

 

How does 2 bikes get in a head on and one rides away unscathed ? It doesn't work like that. It is never a coincidence that inexperienced riders crash in gradual speed corners. They don't know how to ride. They don't understand the concept of counter steering. 

that's a "Russell's teapot" argument!

[scubascuba3]

4 minutes ago, kwilco said:

This depends on the insurance company.

Soe won't cover motorcycles - period

Others may for an extra charge or it may be included.

the next ting is what TYPE of M/Cs are covered. 

As I said earlier Staysure include it in their policy but only up to 125 cc and don't offer an extra option.

So eve if you pay your ten quid, you may find you are only insured up to 125 cc.

Yeah UK insurers state 125cc max in most cases as standard. Obviously if using a comparison site which people should, they can check the details before buying

[kwilco]

22 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Yeah UK insurers state 125cc max in most cases as standard. Obviously if using a comparison site which people should, they can check the details before buying

A problem arises in Thailand when renting a bike. ome of the newer strep-throughs are actually over 125cc so people may inadvertently be riding uninsured

[puchooay]

On 2/16/2023 at 8:11 PM, ezzra said:

At 1.6+ million baht owing to them the hospital has every right to asks for their money, the problem is with the UK travel insurance that drags their feet in covering the expenses and not adding to the already mounting miseries and pains of everybody.

More likely the insurance doesn't cover unlicensed motorcycle riders. 

 

There have been a few of these stories recently. When will people learn?

Edited February 24, 2023 by puchooay

[Harsh Jones]

7 hours ago, kwilco said:

that's a "Russell's teapot" argument!

Is there literally any evidence of a 2nd bike being in a collision with her ?

[kwilco]

26 minutes ago, Harsh Jones said:

Is there literally any evidence of a 2nd bike being in a collision with her ?

Precisely......

[d4dang]

On 2/16/2023 at 10:33 PM, Foghorn said:

The government should be held responsible for not making the other rider pay who caused the crash , also if she wasn’t legal the bike hire company should contribute, the lady needs to pay a share too if not legal

most bike rental owners/agents buy the bikes on time and must have insurance....but somehow it is legal to force customers to sign contracts which release the renters from liability....the credit card companies pay but their customers have no insurance....the Thai gov't should step up...

[Harsh Jones]

8 hours ago, puchooay said:

More likely the insurance doesn't cover unlicensed motorcycle riders. 

 

There have been a few of these stories recently. When will people learn?

The problem is, they toodle around town on a motorbike and think they know how to ride. They think they've learned. Then they venture out of the city center, and hit a gradual speed curve and crash. bc they don't know how to counter steer.

 

(rider in this lesson video crashes but survives)

 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Harsh Jones

[Harsh Jones]

4 minutes ago, d4dang said:

most bike rental owners/agents buy the bikes on time and must have insurance....but somehow it is legal to force customers to sign contracts which release the renters from liability....the credit card companies pay but their customers have no insurance....the Thai gov't should step up...

No the government should not "step up" and subsidize poor judgement by foreigners. There are risks involved in renting motorcycles on some of the most dangerous roads in the world. 

 

Imagine there was some govt scheme to cover the medical costs of foreigners who crash bikes. Then even more of them would be on the road. Because there'd be less incentive not to