Foreign teachers no longer required to do an education course

[BananaStrong]

On 3/6/2023 at 6:58 AM, Scott said:

actually write a test that is an accurate assessment of what has been taught.

I ended up writing three tests.  M4 level tests for my younger gifted students (M2) and M1 tests for my laziest kids (M1) to give them confidence and never learned anything.  I’d mix tests sometimes, it didn’t affect scores much.  Then I’d pile on extra credit to make them all happy.  I can’t teach M6 at an M6 level if they are stuck making M1 mistakes.

 

was that bad?   Maybe…….lol…….I was never a real teacher, but my master’s degree gave me confidence.   Government school; overworked and underpaid.  You try your best.

[Scott]

6 minutes ago, BananaStrong said:

I ended up writing three tests.  M4 level tests for my younger gifted students (M2) and M1 tests for my laziest kids (M1) to give them confidence and never learned anything.  I’d mix tests sometimes, it didn’t affect scores much.  Then I’d pile on extra credit to make them all happy.  I can’t teach M6 at an M6 level if they are stuck making M1 mistakes.

 

was that bad?   Maybe…….lol…….I was never a real teacher, but my master’s degree gave me confidence.   Government school; overworked and underpaid.  You try your best.

I had a fair amount of trouble with students cheating, so I told them I didn't want them cheating and that if they failed, there would be options to get extra credit.  I also told them that it was important that they do the best they can in an honest manner because the test wasn't only for them, it was also for me.  If a lot of them did poorly that meant I hadn't done a good job teaching them. 

 

[puchooay]

3 hours ago, BananaStrong said:

Each person knows if the finished school.  Completed their education (formal) and are abiding by Thai laws.  You must have a degree.  The frauds know they are frauds and shouldn’t be in a school.  I’ve met some who lied to kids about their education and told me the truth.  They also lacked general knowledge, loved to drink, and I couldn’t trust them.  
 

Oh, you want to teach basketball but quit your team and never did anything on the basketball court? No.  
 

I don’t care how good we all think they are.  They are frauds.  Lying to themselves and their kids.  A failure in academia shouldn’t teach.   They can choose a Zillow other careers.  
 

I don’t want a doctor who quit medical school.

That's better. You used the word "some" snd singled out a particular group instead of assuming all were the same.

 

Why not go the whole hog and explain to us that not all degreed teachers are good teachers???

[JustAnotherFarang]

Surely any man with a degree of any worth wouldnt need to prostrate himself to work within the thai teaching establishment, the pay is pitiful and the working conditions are intolerable at times.  There are those who think they have blessed positions in the hierachy and can command a princely sum but the vast majority are just graduates who are looking to extend their holidays or build upon a relationship they have started here.  The schools pay peanuts and they get temporary fresh faced teachers for students to fawn over....... and for parents to stump up the extra tea money that schools always want for doing what is their job.

 

If you have a degree, why cant you do better ?

 

 

[youreavinalaff]

It does make me chuckle when I read threads like this.

 

Teachers must have a degree. If they don't have one, they cannot teach as they will not know what to do in the classroom, how to teach and educate the students, how to deal with different levels of intelligence and understanding and overall will not do a good job.

 

Then, the Thai teachers and schools are berated for their poor standards. All run by an education system where all educators hold a university degree. Funny, isn't it?

[youreavinalaff]

5 hours ago, BananaStrong said:

I don’t want a doctor who quit medical school.

How about a Doctor just out of medical school with no experience of face to face assessments?

 

Would you hire a carpenter who learnt carpentry from a book?

 

A plumber who has never actually done any plumbing?

 

If you were riding your motorcycle down the road and you had a problem, would you drive past the young lad in a hut that has been fixing bikes for 10 years because he didn't graduate as a mechanic?

 

A university degree does nothing more than prepare you for your career, that is if you actually follow a career based on your degree. The real work starts after graduation.. You could study education for 20 years and you would still struggle in the classroom when you first set out. Anyhow, I would guess anyone with an education degree from a western country would struggle immensely in Thailand. The whole system is set up in a way that would go against most things studied.

 

I've never come across and Education degree that teaches the no fail policy, how a cup of coffee can magic a zero into a one, how teachers can write their own tests and show the questions to the students pre test, get told to remove zeros for students who did not turn up for over 50% of the classes, how to accept a print out from Google as the student's own work............I could go on.

 

Teaching in Thailand is not a science. It's an art. There are so many variants, no amount of study or university lectures can prepare you, unless you wish to teach the same way as the Thai teachers.

 

Experience is everything. How to focus on those that want to learn whilst making sure those that don't just about tow the line. How to model the lesson so that all students get what they need out of it. How to design the tests so they fit what has been taught. 

 

Tests? I spoke listening and speaking at most schools I taught at. I therefore requested that I give oral tests and not written. That way, the kids that struggled with reading and writing would not lose out on a good grade in a subject they were good at. Especially those that I suspected were dyslexic. The same kids that the university degree holding Thai teachers threw under the bus as they didn't understand, or didn't want to acknowledge, that some of the kids were not stupid but had learning disabilities.

[JustAnotherFarang]

"a jack of all trades is a master of none" is a well known phrase...... but its not actually the entire quote.

 

This is the entire quote

 

"A jack of all trades is a master of none but a jack of all trades is better than a master of one"

 

Those who have degrees in education should aspire to much more than teaching in Thailand but here the bar is very low and here they find a place to grow.

[Scott]

Doctors do a residency and don't see patients without a fully certified and practicing doctor at their side.  They don't diagnose or treat without the consent of the doctor. 

 

Teachers, who graduate in education, have at least a semester of practice teaching, again with an experienced teacher.  

 

I have worked with teachers who varied from having no degree higher than a GED to teachers who had a Ph.D.  Most did not have a degree in education.  In hiring, here's how I saw the performance level based on educational qualification:

 

A degree in education -1st

No degree but an in-person TEFL or similar - 2nd

All other degrees - 3rd

No degree - 4th

 

Experience can trump almost everything, but you have to remember it was gained at a big expense for students.  

 

[youreavinalaff]

3 hours ago, Scott said:

A degree in education -1st

No degree but an in-person TEFL or similar - 2nd

All other degrees - 3rd

No degree - 4th

 

Experience can trump almost everything, but you have to remember it was gained at a big expense for students.  

I agree to an extent.

 

However, every level of certification you quote will still walk into a Thai classroom with no experience. Even those with a Tefl have never really walked into a classroom with no safety net.

 

I was involved in recruitment at a private school in Thailand. Had the laws allowed, I would have taken a teacher with 10  years experience with no degree, a good CV and references, above a BEd or MEd holder just off the plane every day of the week.

[Scott]

4 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

I agree to an extent.

 

However, every level of certification you quote will still walk into a Thai classroom with no experience. Even those with a Tefl have never really walked into a classroom with no safety net.

 

I was involved in recruitment at a private school in Thailand. Had the laws allowed, I would have taken a teacher with 10  years experience with no degree, a good CV and references, above a BEd or MEd holder just off the plane every day of the week.

And I agree with you to an extent.  Experience most certainly trumps a lot.   Unfortunately, it's achieved at the expense of a lot of students.  This is true whether or not the person has a degree or not.  The difference is the learning curve for those with a degree isn't as steep.  

People with a degree tend to be a little better at dealing with challenging students. 

[youreavinalaff]

9 hours ago, Scott said:

And I agree with you to an extent.  Experience most certainly trumps a lot.   Unfortunately, it's achieved at the expense of a lot of students.  This is true whether or not the person has a degree or not.  The difference is the learning curve for those with a degree isn't as steep.  

People with a degree tend to be a little better at dealing with challenging students. 

We are going around in circles here.

 

Unless one studied a degree in Thailand, there is no advantage when walking into a Thai school classroom for the first time.

 

When I've mentored new teachers in the past they have looked on in shock and even horror at many of the things they've seen and been told. To the point that one lasted only 2 days. They spent the remaining time of their B visa on the beaches in Chonburi and Cha am.

[aarontendo]

19 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

We are going around in circles here.

 

Unless one studied a degree in Thailand, there is no advantage when walking into a Thai school classroom for the first time.

 

When I've mentored new teachers in the past they have looked on in shock and even horror at many of the things they've seen and been told. To the point that one lasted only 2 days. They spent the remaining time of their B visa on the beaches in Chonburi and Cha am.

This is just silly though right?  To suggest that Thailand is some magically amazing (or awful) place that no amount of preparation can get one ready for teaching here just seems far-fetched.  Also a lot of us work at schools that actually care and push rigor (*gasp* yes in Thailand!) and as such they don't fall into the overgeneralized zoo-like conditions that your average punter on a bar stool cries about being his workplace.

 

What exactly is the situation in a Thai classroom that is so alien that we cannot prepare for?  Unmotivated students?  Gee we learn ways to work with that in school of education.  High need for differentiation?  We learn ways to work with that in school of education.  Students undiagnosed with X, Y, and Z disabilities?  We learn ways to work with that in school of education.

 

[decline]

2 minutes ago, aarontendo said:

This is just silly though right?  To suggest that Thailand is some magically amazing (or awful) place that no amount of preparation can get one ready for teaching here just seems far-fetched.  Also a lot of us work at schools that actually care and push rigor (*gasp* yes in Thailand!) and as such they don't fall into the overgeneralized zoo-like conditions that your average punter on a bar stool cries about being his workplace.

 

What exactly is the situation in a Thai classroom that is so alien that we cannot prepare for?  Unmotivated students?  Gee we learn ways to work with that in school of education.  High need for differentiation?  We learn ways to work with that in school of education.  Students undiagnosed with X, Y, and Z disabilities?  We learn ways to work with that in school of education.

 

Don't waste your time, you're talking to Mr Bicker, happens in every thread he's in

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, aarontendo said:

This is just silly though right?  To suggest that Thailand is some magically amazing (or awful) place that no amount of preparation can get one ready for teaching here just seems far-fetched.  Also a lot of us work at schools that actually care and push rigor (*gasp* yes in Thailand!) and as such they don't fall into the overgeneralized zoo-like conditions that your average punter on a bar stool cries about being his workplace.

 

What exactly is the situation in a Thai classroom that is so alien that we cannot prepare for?  Unmotivated students?  Gee we learn ways to work with that in school of education.  High need for differentiation?  We learn ways to work with that in school of education.  Students undiagnosed with X, Y, and Z disabilities?  We learn ways to work with that in school of education.

 

I agree. You virtually mirrored what I've said.

 

With the exception of the bar stool punter and school of education. I don't understand that bit.

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, decline said:

Don't waste your time, you're talking to Mr Bicker, happens in every thread he's in

There is a fundamental difference between bickering and offering details from personal experiences. I thought you would know that.

[Neeranam]

On 2/25/2023 at 1:58 PM, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

Great news. Indeed, that Philippine "diploma" many were getting to fulfill the requirement was merely a scam to fatten someone's pockets.

The MOE have had many different scams, for a while it was the 4 exams, in which 2 were almost impossible to pass. The change these scams every few years. 

[youreavinalaff]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

The MOE have had many different scams, for a while it was the 4 exams, in which 2 were almost impossible to pass. The change these scams every few years. 

I believe the tests are Khurusapa (TCT) requirements. Not MOE.

[Rimmer]

Off topic and bickering posts also replies removed

[BananaStrong]

On 3/7/2023 at 3:23 PM, youreavinalaff said:

How about a Doctor just out of medical school with no experience of face to face assessments?

 

Would you hire a carpenter who learnt carpentry from a book?

 

A plumber who has never actually done any plumbing?

I'm confused.

 

Thailand's Ministry of Education has RULES.   You MUST have a degree.  OK, you MUST!!!   So, now you have one.

 

OK, step two.   The school can CHOOSE a young kid who just finished or one with 1000000 zillion years of experience.  That's a different story; however, both can be hired.   

 

A plumber who has never actually don't any plumbing?  How did they get the plumbing certificate or whatever?  OK, let's say they are a REAL plumber (passed the LAWS and RULES and REGULATIONS, key points), well, it's UP TO YOU to hire them.   I'm sure they will be cheaper than some superstar plumber guy.......again, both are REAL plumbers.

 

A "teacher" without a degree is NOT a teacher in Thailand, so they are not in this discussion at all.  

 

If you LEGITAMITELY have the license or whatever, then it's up to the person paying the money....

 

NO, I'd never want a kid to be taught by someone in a school without a degree.   Bad character trait!!!!!  

 

I spent about 2 years at a private school and maybe 3 at government schools.   I have NEVER met a farang I would call a real teacher, comparing them to the zillion teachers I had in America (pre-school, elementary, middle school, high school, and grad school).   OK, that's not true!!!!    I remember TWO bad teachers I lost all respect for back in the States.   

 

Let's not kid ourselves, you get paid like 30,000 baht in 2023 when the average McDonald's worker makes WAY more than that!!!!!!   so, you get what you paid for.    Don't get me started on the NNES; however, my opinion changed slightly as I came to the conclusion most Thais are sooooooooo bad at English that even a NNES might be able to help them slightly.   Why so bad?  Well, I'd blame the zillion bad teachers who taught them, starting from Anuban.   Funny how teachers never want to blame themselves........proof is in the pudding!!!!    lol.   Kids loved me, schools loved me, but I absolutely failed in many, many ways as an English teacher.   Sorry, kids, I tried; however, well, next time get a real teacher with a Master's in Education and pay them 70,000.  My grad. degree definitely wasn't in Education.  

[youreavinalaff]

21 minutes ago, BananaStrong said:

Let's not kid ourselves, you get paid like 30,000 baht in 2023 when the average McDonald's worker makes WAY more than that!!!!!! 

McDonalds workers get 300 baht a day. Working everyday that only equates to between 8400 and 9300 baht a month. Long days too.

 

My final salary, back in 2017, was 35000.

[Callmeishmael]

A new announcement for teachers who are currently on waivers has been issued by the TCT:

 

http://site.ksp.or.th/content.php?site=englishsite&SiteMenuID=1888&Action=view&Sys_Page=&Sys_PageSize=&DataID=9457

 

This link clarifies the new 'modules' that teachers will have to do in order to get a license.  7 modules x 60 hours per module = 420 hours or about 8 hours per week!

[Callmeishmael]

^  I forgot to add:  the sign-up deadline is 31 March of 2023.  No mention of cost.

[simon43]

My own personal 'niggle' are schools who insist that you have QTS/teaching licence from your home country.  I work as a Science/ESL teacher, but I studied electronics/satellite engineering in the UK, all the way from HNC to HND to Bachelor degree to Master degree. I never intended to be a teacher in south-east Asia.  When I eventually started down that route I went and self-funded CPD courses in pedagogy, SEN, phonics etc etc.  I was offered a place on the Nottingham online PGCE course, but since I was self-funding it wasn't realistic to accept the offer.

 

Even if I had completed a PGCE I would then need to remain in the UK and teaching at a school in order to satisfy the QTS requirements.

 

Therefore, I generally teach in Myanmar, where some schools do not require QTS.  But I have been turned down by a few schools who insist that I have QTS! What is better?  A teacher with QTS and no teaching experience in south-east Asia?  Or a teacher with BSc (1st class), MSc, hands-on technician level experience and 19 years of in-class teaching experience in south-east Asia?  Crazy.....

[Adumbration]

On 2/26/2023 at 2:51 AM, puchooay said:

The salary difference between private and public is not as clear cut you make out.

 

I've known public school salaries easily above the 40k salary you quote.

I was offered 40K starting salary to teach in Phuket 15 years ago....

[connda]

On 2/25/2023 at 3:42 PM, mommysboy said:

At your expense no doubt, for a whopping 35k a month!

Five letters says it all:  K-o-r-e-a

[MrJ2U]

On 2/25/2023 at 3:42 PM, mommysboy said:

35k a month

Max out at 30,000 a month in our parts of Issan. Sakon Nakhon. 

[MarcelV]

On 3/22/2023 at 9:17 AM, Callmeishmael said:

A new announcement for teachers who are currently on waivers has been issued by the TCT:

 

http://site.ksp.or.th/content.php?site=englishsite&SiteMenuID=1888&Action=view&Sys_Page=&Sys_PageSize=&DataID=9457

 

This link clarifies the new 'modules' that teachers will have to do in order to get a license.  7 modules x 60 hours per module = 420 hours or about 8 hours per week!

Any info about pricing?

[Enoon]

On 2/25/2023 at 8:08 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

I see still need the charade of a degree ( whatever it's for ) to teach in LOS.

Long time ago I was going to do a TEFL or TESOL ( forget which it was exactly ) so I could stay in LOS, but the need for a degree stymied that. Back then I don't remember it as having to be an education degree, so is this a return to what it used to be?

 

I'm sure there are a lot of guys out there that would make great teachers, but don't have a degree.

I never went to uni, because I had to earn a living, but I'm sure that compared to some of the teachers  ( with degrees ) that I had in school, I'd do just fine as a teacher.

You could have done both.

 

I took 3 years off work to earn a degree as a mature student.

 

Received a full Mature Student grant (UK) without having to pay a penny of my own money..........previous tax paying qualified me.

 

It was ******* fantastic!

 

 

 

 

[TimeMachine]

I used to teach. Most countries had the Degree requirement to make sure the person was of a certain standard in society. Thailand's requirements are not enticing me to teach here now  and I fear many competent teachers are deciding the same. I feel as though the rules are having the opposite effect and allowing desperate workers in which makes it harder for schools as they are not flooded with applicants.  If someone is looking for work and has a Degree I know of a school in SriRacha that always needs teachers in all disciplines.

[Callmeishmael]

8 hours ago, MarcelV said:

Any info about pricing?

A friend called the TCT, he said that it would be quite reasonable - no exact figure, but cheaper than St. Roberts.