Condominium renovation with a few new interior walls - how straight is acceptable?

[OneMoreFarang]

My contractor hired workers to add a few short interior walls. Until now I thought they look good.

But now another team, from the same contractor, installs metal strips below the ceiling (something special, just pretend it could be crown molding). And now it is visible that the walls are not really straight. 

Until now I found out that on one spot the wall is about 8mm "thinner" than one meter away from there.

This is near the ceiling measured horizontally. 

 

This is a picture made from about 170cm height to the ceiling. The metal strip in the picture is straight. 

This is a close up. Looking at the whole wall it doesn't look so bad.

 

What is acceptable for a good contractor?

[BostonJoe]

So the contractor built the wall using black and skimming it with cement? Have you looked at the other side of the wall to see if it bows out? I know you put a lot of time and thought into this renovation   that is not acceptable workmanship 

[papa al]

Just re-plaster.

Plaster is cheap.

Labor is cheap.

No biggie.

[LTHAI]

went thru the same recently - but I chekced many times a day and had them redo areas many times !   Local labor has no clue about quality.

[OneMoreFarang]

Thanks for your replies.

 

I only noticed this today and I have/had already an appointment with my contractor tomorrow.

In general, he and his teams are doing reasonable work. Sometimes very good (IMHO) and sometimes still ok.

 

I guess if the walls, or the skimming or whatever that is called, would be 1 or 2 mm uneven, that would be acceptable. I can't really expect a wall like a sheet of glass. But when is the difference too much?

If possible, I like to have by tomorrow an idea about what is considered perfect, what is acceptable, and what is so bad that it should be done again.

Simply I don't know what to expect. I also wouldn't know what to expect back home in farang country. I am sure a certain amount of uneven is to be expected and acceptable. But how much?

 

[RayWright]

Had a similar issue many years ago when PMing office refurbs , builder argued was within tolerances for the job. Had to admit defeat. However bought a 3x4x5 triangle (good old Egyptians) and 1800mm spirit level (ideal for kitchen cabinets as well)  and made a point of checking all future builds as they happen.

 

Had a Victorian terrace house number of years ago as a fixa-upper, decided to take the wall out between front and middle room. Made a test hole at skirting height to double check thickness, and as expected one brick thick plus plaster. Come the demolition, the plaster got thicker and thicker as you went up the wall, to the point it was over 2 bricks thick at the top. Only conclusion we could reach is the pub next door was a year older than the terrace houses, so plastering was done after lunch when the beer was effecting eyesight!

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I also wouldn't know what to expect back home in farang country. I am sure a certain amount of uneven is to be expected and acceptable. But how much?

Most of the Brit buildings are dry walling (no termites).

Skim over the joins.

[lkn]

18 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Simply I don't know what to expect. I also wouldn't know what to expect back home in farang country. I am sure a certain amount of uneven is to be expected and acceptable. But how much?

A friend of mine is a mason and I can tell you an uneven wall is absolutely not acceptable “back home”. They will repeatedly check their work with a levelling instrument.

 

As for plastering an uneven wall: The plaster should not be more than 1mm, the thicker it is, the more chance you have for the plastering material to crack.

 

But if you get the wall done by unskilled migrant workers that receive 300-500 baht/day, you get uneven walls, and they fix it with thick layers of plaster. I see it all over the place in Thailand, and I see cracked walls all over the place as well.

[DaLa]

Internal walls can be  'structural' or not . If not  the tolerances are quite generous and are dependant on the countries codes rather than the customers wishes and expectations. 

 

It's quite difficult to make it clear anywhere that you require a job to meet certain criteria which is frustrating; even more so here. 

 

In the west the tolerance is half and inch (12mm ish) over a 2.4 Metre lift.  That's quite noticeable. 

 

I used to build houses, the groundworks contractor would say the brickies will put things right, the brickies would say the framers would put things right , the framers would say the plasterers would put things right and the plasterers would say the decorator would put things right.

 

The decorator would suck air into his mouth breathe out, sigh and shake his head.

[Dante99]

It does not look good, you will not be happy with it in the long run.  You have hired a quality contractor at quality prices and should not accept that kind of work.

 

With the steel away from the wall you are providing a home for insects and jingjoks which will get messy and become a cleaning problem in the future.

 

Unless there is something that mounts on the steel which will hide it all.

 

I do not think you need a measurable standard, just looking at it should be sufficient for the contractor to understand it needs to be corrected.

[OneMoreFarang]

39 minutes ago, lkn said:

A friend of mine is a mason and I can tell you an uneven wall is absolutely not acceptable “back home”. They will repeatedly check their work with a levelling instrument.

 

As for plastering an uneven wall: The plaster should not be more than 1mm, the thicker it is, the more chance you have for the plastering material to crack.

 

But if you get the wall done by unskilled migrant workers that receive 300-500 baht/day, you get uneven walls, and they fix it with thick layers of plaster. I see it all over the place in Thailand, and I see cracked walls all over the place as well.

And I can assure you, that those uneven walls even "happen" when you have a well-paid contractor with teams who worked in 5-star hotels in Thailand. 

Many people, including me, are willing to pay good money for good work. But it is still very difficult to find those workers who are willing and able to do a good job. 

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

I do not think you need a measurable standard, just looking at it should be sufficient for the contractor to understand it needs to be corrected.

I will meet the contractor later today. Let's see. I will update you all. 

[Elkski]

I would say a bow of 2mm in say 1 m would be my acceptable level for Thailand.  1mm better.  But if is a ripple of many +&- 1mm in 1 meter that would look bad.     If it's already painted I'm not sure more skin coat is going to be stable for a long time. 

[lkn]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And I can assure you, that those uneven walls even "happen" when you have a well-paid contractor with teams who worked in 5-star hotels in Thailand.

I don’t know about the “worked in 5-star hotels”, but I do know that there are some contractors that more or less specialize in selling their services to Westerners at high prices, but use the same low skill workers that I would personally avoid.

[OneMoreFarang]

A little update: Today I saw my contractor and he saw the problem and he agreed they will redo the plastering (not sure about that term) of some walls. He knows it's his responsibility and I don't have to pay anything extra.

Good.

Let's see.

[soi3eddie]

On 3/6/2023 at 8:15 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks for your replies.

 

I only noticed this today and I have/had already an appointment with my contractor tomorrow.

In general, he and his teams are doing reasonable work. Sometimes very good (IMHO) and sometimes still ok.

 

I guess if the walls, or the skimming or whatever that is called, would be 1 or 2 mm uneven, that would be acceptable. I can't really expect a wall like a sheet of glass. But when is the difference too much?

If possible, I like to have by tomorrow an idea about what is considered perfect, what is acceptable, and what is so bad that it should be done again.

Simply I don't know what to expect. I also wouldn't know what to expect back home in farang country. I am sure a certain amount of uneven is to be expected and acceptable. But how much?

 

I'd accept 1mm as a maximum. Sure they have straight edges to check their work. Glad to hear the contractor accepted it as wrong.

 

Ps. wrote this before reading further above. I agree with @Elkski

 

 

[Yellowtail]

Tack a nail in each corner and run a string. Chalk marks where you don't like. 

 

Contractor says he'll make it right, let him. 

 

[In Full Agreement]

22 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

A little update: Today I saw my contractor and he saw the problem and he agreed they will redo the plastering (not sure about that term) of some walls. He knows it's his responsibility and I don't have to pay anything extra.

Good.

Let's see.

 

All's well that ends well.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

17 minutes ago, In Full Agreement said:

All's well that ends well.

Yes, that's the idea.

Obviously it would be wonderful if all would be right from the beginning. But I guess that is unrealistic.

So as long as it's good at the end of the day, or several months, that is acceptable for me.

[Elkski]

That drop ceiling metal makes it hard to hide.  A small bead of caulk may hide small deviations.   Since the metal was up I guess the wall was primed and painted.  New render will only adhere as good as those layers.  

[Dan O]

On 3/6/2023 at 3:15 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks for your replies.

 

I only noticed this today and I have/had already an appointment with my contractor tomorrow.

In general, he and his teams are doing reasonable work. Sometimes very good (IMHO) and sometimes still ok.

 

I guess if the walls, or the skimming or whatever that is called, would be 1 or 2 mm uneven, that would be acceptable. I can't really expect a wall like a sheet of glass. But when is the difference too much?

If possible, I like to have by tomorrow an idea about what is considered perfect, what is acceptable, and what is so bad that it should be done again.

Simply I don't know what to expect. I also wouldn't know what to expect back home in farang country. I am sure a certain amount of uneven is to be expected and acceptable. But how much?

 

Unfortuneatly if you didn't outline what your expectations was and what was acceptable before they started you will most likely get nowhere with this.

 

There isn't a standard unless you set it as part of the contract. Skim coating block walls always have deviation like this. The better alternative would be gypsum board or metal studs but its a bit late for that. 

[Yellowtail]

It has been my experience working with Thai contactors that they will generally try to make right mistakes. 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

It has been my experience working with Thai contactors that they will generally try to make right mistakes. 

Thanks, I have the same experience with my contractor - at least until now.

But I also have the experience that it seems my expectations are sometimes higher than his expectations.

And I know being in Thailand means I have to (mostly) accept what is acceptable for Thai standards.