Scammed on Wise, how did this happen?

[simon43]

1 hour ago, MJCM said:

@simon43

 

It is already a long time since I have that Card, but Wise choose the pin code for me, but maybe this has changed 

 

IMHO install the App on your phone and then a authorization goes through your phone. Only caveat is that it needs internet connection 

I already have that and I use the 2-step authorisation process all the time.  That is why I can't figure out why Wise was so lacking in sending out a 'live' ATM card by unregistered post and which can apparently be used without need to enter a PIN or 2-stage OTP when an item is purchased.

[BritManToo]

17 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I already have that and I use the 2-step authorisation process all the time.  That is why I can't figure out why Wise was so lacking in sending out a 'live' ATM card by unregistered post and which can apparently be used without need to enter a PIN or 2-stage OTP when an item is purchased.

All UK cards are sent out 'live', there's no other options.

Card security is to make your life hard, not to make the criminals life hard.

Edited March 11, 2023 by BritManToo

[keithcresswell]

My UK wise card was used twice in the US. Fortunately the transactions were declined because the card had expired. Needless to say I decided not to renew it. I notified Wise but they didn't seem interested.

[PingRoundTheWorld]

15 hours ago, simon43 said:

The first was an Uber Taxi transaction for zero pounds, to check if the card was activated, the second was about 6 pounds from Uber Eats and the third was about 170 pounds (big meal!) from Uber Eats.

Not on Wise, but I've had such transactions on 2 different credit cards. The card company blocked the card, but it does seem like this Uber/Eats scam is ongoing at massive scale. Really wish there was a way to require OTP for all online transactions...

[MJCM]

Just FYI.

 

In the Wise Website you can create (and delete) virtual cards, which I use all the time for example I have one for Lazada, for Grab etc etc.

 

You get all the details needed to pay with these Cards (remember they are virtual) and you can also Freeze or Unfreeze them when necessary.

 

I always freeze them direct after USE, and after a discussion with WISE even a ReFUND (from for example Lazada) will reach your Card even when the card has been frozen and it really works, so Card was Frozen and refund arrived.

[DrCosmix]

2 hours ago, chilly07 said:

I keep  all my cards frozen  and unfreeze when I want to use.  Especially when a replacement is in the post! I also use a  CC for on line transactions  as they have a verification procedure

Good tip about  freezing and unfreezing card

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, simon43 said:

But how was it even possible to charge that card?  Surely it needs the authorisation PIN?  Surely Wise don't send a 'live' card by unregistered post?

 

Perhaps someone who has a UK Wise ATM card can tell me if one needs to provide the PIN to buy Uber Eats etc......

I don't know if something has changed but when I got my card 2 years ago the first transaction on the card had to be chip and pin. I also had a zero value transaction, this required the PIN and it activated the card. I didn't provide a PIN got it from the website.

Initially every transaction had a security check, normally asked to identify a recent transaction. That changed to an sms code or via the app, but not all transactions have to be verified, much the same as contactless where every so often that requires the PIN.

[DrCosmix]

10 hours ago, attento said:

Isn't the WISE card a debit card ?

 

Yes. So all the money you have in your  WISE can be spent and so dont keep  any money

 In you wise account 

[MJCM]

6 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I don't know if something has changed but when I got my card 2 years ago the first transaction on the card had to be chip and pin. I also had a zero value transaction, this required the PIN and it activated the card. I didn't provide a PIN got it from the website.

Initially every transaction had a security check, normally asked to identify a recent transaction. That changed to an sms code or via the app, but not all transactions have to be verified, much the same as contactless where every so often that requires the PIN.

That is exactly how it went for me. Pin was given to me by Wise (could not change it)

 

Edit: I disabled Contactless. Only use (when Unfreezed) ATM and Magnetic Strip and Chip Card

Edited March 11, 2023 by MJCM

[DrCosmix]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

I already have that and I use the 2-step authorisation process all the time.  That is why I can't figure out why Wise was so lacking in sending out a 'live' ATM card by unregistered post and which can apparently be used without need to enter a PIN or 2-stage OTP when an item is purchased.

WISE who are they where are they?

BE WARNED

 

[MJCM]

Post removed, Believe that is not possible anymore (<deleted>)

Edited March 11, 2023 by MJCM

[simon43]

6 minutes ago, DrCosmix said:

Yes. So all the money you have in your  WISE can be spent and so dont keep  any money

 In you wise account 

In fact I normally add funds to Wise from my Payoneer account (I am paid by iTalki that way), and then I send those funds immediately to Bangkok Bank.  But on this occasion I kept some funds in my Wise a/c to send them to a USA bank account in payment for a power amplifier for my ham radio equipment. This problem only started when I ordered the ATM card, never had an issue using Wise previously.

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

That is why I can't figure out why Wise was so lacking in sending out a 'live' ATM card by unregistered post and which can apparently be used without need to enter a PIN or 2-stage OTP when an item is purchased.

You shouldn't say things like that when you don't really know, I think somehow you were hacked.

Despite what others have said new cards are not sent out "live" as you put it. The PIN would normally be provided separate.

I have recently had a replacement card from HSBC which was sent to the branch and the PIN sent to my address. The card had to be activated on my account before it could be used.

 

[DrCosmix]

29 minutes ago, MJCM said:

Just FYI.

 

In the Wise Website you can create (and delete) virtual cards, which I use all the time for example I have one for Lazada, for Grab etc etc.

 

You get all the details needed to pay with these Cards (remember they are virtual) and you can also Freeze or Unfreeze them when necessary.

 

I always freeze them direct after USE, and after a discussion with WISE even a ReFUND (from for example Lazada) will reach your Card even when the card has been frozen and it really works, so Card was Frozen and refund arrived.

After a discussion  with WISE?!!!!

You actually  managed to get a  working  telephone number?

How many minutes before somebody  answered?

How did you get a number for WISE?

Who provided it to you?

What is the  number?

All the original  numbers have changed!

The idea of  having a 'discussion' with WISE is a joke.

They dont answer or they answer and keep you  on hold thus generating  income for them.

What is the number for WISE?

One that actually works please.

Personally I dont want multiple virtual CCs I want an effective  realistic money transfer  system with a support staff who answer the phones and have a real email adress and real email address 

 

[gearbox]

15 hours ago, simon43 said:

Thanks - it would make sense that these fraudalent charges didn't require the PIN/OTP etc.  In that case, either the postman stole the card or the slimy youth who is employed at this guesthouse where I'm staying - I suspect the latter....

 

I hope I get my money refunded from Wise.

It happened to me a few years ago with one of the major banks in Australia. The card was sent to my postal address and was stolen from the post box. They somehow activated it via the bank IVR system and made nearly 2k of PayPass purchases under $100 which don't require authorisation, before the bank anti fraud system detected unusual activity and blocked the card.

 

At that time I was outside the country, the bank refunded all the charges. It turned out there was an organised gang breaking post boxes and stealing personal correspondence including mailed credit cards. And the bank's activation procedures were totally unequate.

One should assume that their name, date of birth and address are widely known due to a number of security breaches at major companies and vendors, and can be used for identity theft and card activations.

[MJCM]

2 minutes ago, DrCosmix said:

After a discussion  with WISE?!!!!

You actually  managed to get a  working  telephone number?

How many minutes before somebody  answered?

How did you get a number for WISE?

Who provided it to you?

What is the  number?

Email discussion.

 

And what is the big deal. It was a lazada refund i was talking about and card was frozen and refund arrived back into the account even with the Card being frozen!

 

Edit: My question with them was about that. If card is frozen will refund still arrive or does card need to be active

Edited March 11, 2023 by MJCM

[DrCosmix]

9 minutes ago, simon43 said:

In fact I normally add funds to Wise from my Payoneer account (I am paid by iTalki that way), and then I send those funds immediately to Bangkok Bank.  But on this occasion I kept some funds in my Wise a/c to send them to a USA bank account in payment for a power amplifier for my ham radio equipment. This problem only started when I ordered the ATM card, never had an issue using Wise previously.

Exactly- never had an issue with WISE previously but when you  do you realise.....

[DrCosmix]

Just now, MJCM said:

Email discussion.

 

And what is the big deal. It was a lazada refund i was talking about and card was frozen and refund arrived back into the account even with the Card being frozen!

OK.  Thanks  for  the clarification- but it want a true  discussion because they take 24 hours  to respond even to emergencys. They dont have proper telephone support or real email support. Believe  what you  want 

[MJCM]

2 minutes ago, DrCosmix said:

OK.  Thanks  for  the clarification- but it want a true  discussion because they take 24 hours  to respond even to emergencys. They dont have proper telephone support or real email support. Believe  what you  want 

Reading what you say, my guess is that you are not happy with them say the least ???? 

[DrCosmix]

28 minutes ago, MJCM said:

Reading what you say, my guess is that you are not happy with them say the least ???? 

I used to  be happy  with them but something changed and now I dont think they can be relied on to give a reliable service. In the past I recommend them. Now I warn about  them.

Anybody who boasts that they have sent you money in 10 seconds is an idiot when three days  later the money still hasnt arrived. Yet they  continue  to boast "Youre money is in your account and it only took  10 second"

Thats two days later! No money and no way to  contact  them!

Three days later my money arrived and what money saved I lost in  telephoning call centers and being put on hold. 

RED FLAG

Edited March 11, 2023 by DrCosmix

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

17 hours ago, Upnotover said:

It doesn't really matter if you have the "live" card or not, as soon as they issue a card number the details are on the app and it can be used whether you actually have received it or not.

 

I don't know about that... I don't have a Wise card... but.....

 

I have various credit cards, and every time a new one is mailed to me here, it's mailed un UN-activated form... meaning it can't be used for anything, should someone intercept the envelope, open it and gain access to all the card info.

 

Before I can use the new credit cards for ANYTHING, I've got to either call in or go online to the card provider, and give them personal information associated with my account that no stranger is going to know.  After that's done, the new card is activated and then can be used in various ways...

 

I'd be surprised if Wise is mailing out credit cards that can be used without any prior activation upon receipt by the account owner.

 

[MJCM]

15 minutes ago, DrCosmix said:

I used to  be but something changed and now I dont think they can be relied on to give a reliable service. In the past I recommend them. Now I warn about  them 

I only use them to transfer money from my European Banks to my Thai Banks and they do that cheap and often very quick.

 

I only keep money in my balances over there I can afford (but still would hate) to loose.

Edited March 11, 2023 by MJCM
Spelling

[simon43]

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I don't know about that... I don't have a Wise card... but.....

 

I have various credit cards, and every time a new one is mailed to me here, it's mailed un UN-activated form... meaning it can't be used for anything, should someone intercept the envelope, open it and gain access to all the card info.

 

Before I can use the new credit cards for ANYTHING, I've got to either call in or go online to the card provider, and give them personal information associated with my account that no stranger is going to know.  After that's done, the new card is activated and then can be used in various ways...

 

I'd be surprised if Wise is mailing out credit cards that can be used without any prior activation upon receipt by the account owner.

 

2 points:  The Wise ATM card is a debit card, not a credit card.  Secondly, I recently opened a bank account with Halifax Bank.  As expected, they sent me an inactive ATM debit card and then the PIN number by separate post.

 

For this Wise card, I was asked to choose a 4-digit PIN on their website and then they confirmed that the card would be sent to me, (which apparently it was, but someone stole it before I received it).

 

Naturally, I considered that maybe my Wise account had been hacked.  Unfortunately, I see no way of requesting a log of log-in attempts to my account.  In any case, every log-in has to be confirmed by my mobile phone, which is with me at all times.  I scanned my laptop for viruses and keyloggers, but nothing was found.  I only access the Wise website from my laptop, never from my mobile phone, and I always have to enter the URL and confirm the log-in using my mobile phone.  So I'm still perplexed how this scam was committed!

 

Interestingly, the email from Wise after I requested/signed up for the card says that it has to be activated before use (it doesn't say how), AND that it would arrive by 19th March.  Well, it was used on 9th March, 10 days before I should have received it! 

Edited March 11, 2023 by simon43

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, simon43 said:

2 points:  The Wise ATM card is a debit card, not a credit card. 

The same post-receipt activation process also applies to all the debit cards I receive from the U.S. (my home country).

 

It's not hard to figure that the bank wouldn't especially want to be sending out useable cards in the mail that any criminal could simply steal and start using... Because, normally, the issuing bank ends up being responsible for fraudulent card use.

 

I guess the part I'm not clear on your from telling is... could a person use your Wise card once issued without knowing or having the PIN code you set up? In other words, is the PIN code use only required for in-person transactions? If so, that leaves a pretty big loophole.

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[DrCosmix]

Just now, MJCM said:

I only use them to transfer money from my European Banks to my Thai Banks and they do that cheap and often very quick.

 

I only keep you money in my balances over there I can afford (but still would hate) to loose.

Something  thing changed- the new design  was so  bad I thought  the site  was hacked!

Im still not sure because  no reputable  bank would allow  such bad design. 

 

The started offered 3.5 interest  accounts. Red flag

 

The UK +44  help line isnt really  a UK number but sounds  more like a call centre scam set up some where in India or the Philippines.  That is  very  worrying.  It sounds identical  to those warning videos you see on documentaries  and you tube where people end up giving away information. 

It is in fact in the Philippines but labelled +44 and charged at +44 rate

The Singapore  helpline is OK but it all depends  if they answer  and if they leave you on hold for 15 minutes . But they are not  helpful 

[simon43]

Update:

 

Now the plot thickens! Checking into the details of this new physical ATM card, I see that Wise has sent it to my brother's address, not to my UK address (I forgot to update my postal address).  WAIT!  No they didn't!!  I just checked again! 

 

My Wise account still has my brother's address, but Wise shipped the card to my UK address in Blackpool that I entered into the Wise website after requesting the card.  In other words, Wise were happy to post this card to an address that wasn't yet associated with my Wise account!  (Duh...)

 

My brother hasn't yet received the card, which is likely so if the expected delivery date is by March 19th.

 

Now looking at the actual Uber Eats purchases, it says that the actual authorisation method was 'online'.  The Wise website says that one can actually use the card for purchases online before the actual card arrives.

 

So how did the defrauder get hold of my ATM card details to make the purchases?  (I wish I knew where the Uber Eats order was made).

Edited March 11, 2023 by simon43

[scubascuba3]

2 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

So how did the defrauder get hold of my ATM card details to make the purchases?  (I wish I knew where the Uber Eats order was made).

Maybe card was intercepted in transit, by the way how did you get on with England being mostly non cash now?

[simon43]

4 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Maybe card was intercepted in transit, by the way how did you get on with England being mostly non cash now?

Er ... I pay cash for everything!  (I use ATM cards in the UK/Thailand) to withdraw cash to pay for whatever.  I never use these cards to buy anything except for plane tickets etc.

Edited March 11, 2023 by simon43

[scubascuba3]

13 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Er ... I pay cash for everything!  (I use ATM cards in the UK/Thailand) to withdraw cash to pay for whatever.  I never use these cards to buy anything except for plane tickets etc.

Ah ok, UK being mostly a cashless society slightly exaggerated it seems

[simon43]

3 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Ah ok, UK being mostly a cashless society slightly exaggerated it seems

Nope, I think it's true, judging by how most other people are paying!  I've been away for so many years that I had to ask the Sainsbury staff to show me how to use the self-scanning check-out tills....

Edited March 11, 2023 by simon43