'We're asking for help to bring our boy home to Manchester so he's not alone as he fights for his life'

[NanLaew]

9 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

9 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

I would go as far as to say most insurance and especially travel insurance is an out and out scam, These companies will do anything to avoid paying out.  Then again I can imagine they get besieged with many fraudulent claims too.   A vicious circle 

I agree.  And if one actually reads all the fine print, you will very rarely find a company that will direct pay the hospital.  Most, when it even happens may reimburse you.  And that is quite a long time after you submitted the claim.  That won't help your hospital bill and they may still not let your out of the hospital.

This only appears to be an issue if one can't tell the difference between an insurance company and a bank or credit card. The former aren't about pre-paying or pre-funding much of anything whereas it's one of the latter's standard lines of business.

Edited March 13, 2023 by NanLaew

[Eloquent pilgrim]

28 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

That's why I think the fine should be 10,000 baht for non-Thais. 

 

That’s racial profiling, are you sure you’re happy with that  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Yellowtail]

16 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

That’s racial profiling, are you sure you’re happy with that  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's not racial profiling. 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

It's not racial profiling. 

Don't be ridiculous, of course it is .... but if you're happy with it, fine 

[IvorBiggun2]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

I see far and away most Thais wearing helmets. When you earn 300 Baht a day, a 50-100 Baht fine is significant.

No it isn't because if it did there wouldn't be so many accidents. Fine them yes but make the fine hurt.

[actonion]

23 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Did you really not understand that my question was not serious ?

 

It was simply an implication that you cannot divorce yourself from the responsibility of 5 kids; if, that is, you have a conscience.

Re; your last paragraph, Men in Asia, Thai and Philippino  I know do,  for sure 

[Dogsredrocket]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

While I see the occasional Thai not wearing a helmet, it seems to be the exception, not the rule. 

In Phuket the vast majority do not wear a helmet. It seems to be the case all over Thailand Those that do wear a helmet wear the brittle half cap rubbish more often than not. 

 

Where do you think most of the 20,000 deaths a year are coming from?

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Don't be ridiculous, of course it is .... but if you're happy with it, fine 

Don't be ridiculous,  of couse it isn't ... but if you think it is, fine. 

[Yellowtail]

39 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

No it isn't because if it did there wouldn't be so many accidents. Fine them yes but make the fine hurt.

So make it okay for the rich, but not for the poor? 

 

Which is a bigger disincentive, a thousand Baht fine, or bleeding out in the street? 

[Yellowtail]

31 minutes ago, Dogsredrocket said:

In Phuket the vast majority do not wear a helmet. It seems to be the case all over Thailand Those that do wear a helmet wear the brittle half cap rubbish more often than not. 

I can't speak to Phuket, but in and around Bangkok, but far and away most wear helmets. 

 

And no doubt you think a guy making 15K a month should pay 20K for a helmet?

 

 

31 minutes ago, Dogsredrocket said:

Where do you think most of the 20,000 deaths a year are coming from?

All things the same, is it your position that a guy wearing a helmet is safe, and not likely to be seriously injured when hit by a truck? 

[Dogsredrocket]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

And no doubt you think a guy making 15K a month should pay 20K for a helmet?

Guess that depends on how much he values the contents his skull

 

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

All things the same, is it your position that a guy wearing a helmet is safe, and not likely to be seriously injured when hit by a truck? 

Overall, unhelmeted riders are two to three times as likely to be killed in a crash in Thailand

[IvorBiggun2]

30 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So make it okay for the rich, but not for the poor? 

You can't have 2 laws. One for the rich and one for the poor.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

You can't have 2 laws. One for the rich and one for the poor.

Yet that's what you are suggesting when you claim you want the fine to hurt. To make it hurt, you have to have a bigger fine for the rich than the poor, yes? 

 

If a rich guy doesn't want to wear a helmet, does he really care that he has to pay a thousand Baht now and then?

 

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yet that's what you are suggesting when you claim you want the fine to hurt. To make it hurt, you have to have a bigger fine for the rich than the poor, yes? 

Using your logic the locals should get longer jail sentences than tourists, as they have much more spare time in Thailand. 

[IvorBiggun2]

18 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yet that's what you are suggesting when you claim you want the fine to hurt. To make it hurt, you have to have a bigger fine for the rich than the poor, yes? 

No. Make the law so the punishment fit the crime. There's other ways to punish people other than to fine them.

[Ralf001]

38 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

You can't have 2 laws. One for the rich and one for the poor.

Not really 2 laws but in Finland fines are linked to income.

 

Finland Progressive Punishment

 

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Ralf001

[richard_smith237]

12 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Not really 2 laws but in Finland fines are linked to income.

 

Finland Progressive Punishment

 

I'd certainly think twice about doing 140 kmh on the motorway when its very quiet if this were the case. 

 

But, I’d also want to argue that the poor and unemployed jumping the lights, not wearing helmets and speeding down Rama IV will continue to act like this because no one bothers fining them anyway !!!! 

 

The UK doest have a progressive punishment system, yet has a very good road safety record ?

Why ?...  the fear of punishment / fines is effective. 

 

The simple fact is that in Thailand there is no fear of punishment, the fines are not effective because either they are small even for the poor, or they just don’t get paid. 

 

We see a lot of the ’seemingly poor demographic’ breaking the traffic laws... taxi’s delivery drivers / riders, motorcyclists (on cheap scooters without helmets)  they do so because they know they get away with it and don’t fear any fines at all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by richard_smith237

[IvorBiggun2]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

The simple fact is that in Thailand there is no fear of punishment, the fines are not effective because either they are small, or they don’t get paid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spot on .

[Eloquent pilgrim]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Don't be ridiculous,  of couse it isn't ... but if you think it is, fine. 

You want people's racial profile to be used in order to fine some people more than the fine for other people with a different racial profile. However, when I pointed out that this is racial profiling, you didn’t like the sound of it, and refused to own your comment.

 

You are free to say mostly what you like on here, so long as you remain polite and are not abusive; however, credibility is quickly diminished if you are not prepared to own a comment you make.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Eloquent pilgrim
typo

[Eloquent pilgrim]

37 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I'd certainly think twice about doing 140 kmh on the motorway when its very quiet if this were the case. 

 

But, I’d also want to argue that the poor and unemployed jumping the lights, not wearing helmets and speeding down Rama IV will continue to act like this because no one bothers fining them anyway !!!! 

 

The UK doest have a progressive punishment system, yet has a very good road safety record ?

Why ?...  the fear of punishment / fines is effective. 

 

The simple fact is that in Thailand there is no fear of punishment, the fines are not effective because either they are small even for the poor, or they just don’t get paid. 

 

We see a lot of the ’seemingly poor demographic’ breaking the traffic laws... taxi’s delivery drivers / riders, motorcyclists (on cheap scooters without helmets)  they do so because they know they get away with it and don’t fear any fines at all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with all your points; although I would argue that the UK does in fact have a progressive punishment system, but not really so much with the financial aspect.

 

What keeps most sensible drivers in the UK in check, is the accumulative  effect of points against the driver’s licence, eventually leading to a ban, and even vehicle confiscation for serial offenders.

 

This would not really be workable in Thailand, because as you point out, it is often the poor that are the persistent offenders, and they would simply, out of necessity, ignore any ban. It is a huge problem in Thailand which costs many lives, as we all know.

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

No. Make the law so the punishment fit the crime. There's other ways to punish people other than to fine them.

So everyone not wearing a helmet one night in jail and bike confiscated until the rider shows with a helmet to pick it up. 

 

Perfect! 

[KhaoYai]

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I see far and away most Thais wearing helmets. When you earn 300 Baht a day, a 50-100 Baht fine is significant. For a guy like you, not so much. That's why I think the fine should be 10,000 baht for non-Thais. 

You're in Bangkok.  In Pak Chong and Korat you won't see many Thai's wearing helmets.  In Korat city you can see many bikes with clearly underage riders + 2 school kid passengers - all without helmets, every morning.  They do that right in front of the police directing traffic on the main road through the city.

 

Maybe people are obeying the law more in the capital nowadays but I see no change out in the provinces.

[liddelljohn]

On 3/11/2023 at 5:22 AM, FritsSikkink said:

Father of 5, no helmet, on the phone while driving after a couple of drinks.

Now the family begging for money.

Nuff said. 

yes another moron   not engaging brain

 

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I'd certainly think twice about doing 140 kmh on the motorway when its very quiet if this were the case. 

So you rail against others breaking the law, but you apparently see yourself above it. 

 

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

But, I’d also want to argue that the poor and unemployed jumping the lights, not wearing helmets and speeding down Rama IV will continue to act like this because no one bothers fining them anyway !!!! 

I've driven in Bangkok traffic daily for quite a long time, and while I see people without helmets, far and away most are wearing helmets.

 

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

The UK doest have a progressive punishment system, yet has a very good road safety record ?

Why ?...  the fear of punishment / fines is effective. 

Why does fear of punishment (apparently) not work for other crimes? 

City of London Crime and Safety Statistics | CrimeRate

There are many not rich people than rich people.

 

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

The simple fact is that in Thailand there is no fear of punishment, the fines are not effective because either they are small even for the poor, or they just don’t get paid. 

The why are other crimes not rampant? 

 

How does someone else not wearing a helmet have a significant impact on you? I lot of people see the law as silly much like you see driving 140 on the motorway. 

 

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

We see a lot of the ’seemingly poor demographic’ breaking the traffic laws... taxi’s delivery drivers / riders, motorcyclists (on cheap scooters without helmets)  they do so because they know they get away with it and don’t fear any fines at all. 

The taxis I see generally drive pretty well. 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

You want people's racial profile to be used in order to fine some people more than the fine for other people with a different racial profile. However, when I pointed out that this is racial profiling, you didn’t like the sound of it, and refused to own your comment.

 

You are free to say mostly what you like on here, so long as you remain polite and are not abusive; however, credibility is quickly diminished if you are not prepared to own a comment you make.

I own the comment, and I stand by my statement that it is not racial profiling. 

 

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I'd certainly think twice about doing 140 kmh on the motorway when its very quiet if this were the case. 

So you rail against others breaking the law, but you apparently see yourself above it. 

A lovely combination of Gaslighting and Virtue signalling....  Amusing, but flawed. 

 

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

But, I’d also want to argue that the poor and unemployed jumping the lights, not wearing helmets and speeding down Rama IV will continue to act like this because no one bothers fining them anyway !!!! 

I've driven in Bangkok traffic daily for quite a long time, and while I see people without helmets, far and away most are wearing helmets.

There's more to Bangkok than Nana... 

 

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

The UK doest have a progressive punishment system, yet has a very good road safety record ?

Why ?...  the fear of punishment / fines is effective. 

Why does fear of punishment (apparently) not work for other crimes? 

City of London Crime and Safety Statistics | CrimeRate

There are many not rich people than rich people.

It works more so than in areas with an apathetic and ineffective police force. 

 

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

The simple fact is that in Thailand there is no fear of punishment, the fines are not effective because either they are small even for the poor, or they just don’t get paid. 

The why are other crimes not rampant? 

Who says they aren’t  ??... there is an awful lot of crime that goes unreported here. 

 

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

How does someone else not wearing a helmet have a significant impact on you? I lot of people see the law as silly much like you see driving 140 on the motorway. 

If this needs explaining then you are not very smart, eh !!....  Somchai on a motorcycle pulls out in front of you on a SubSoi, he bangs his head and dies, he was the only earner in his family... you have to live with the consequences, potential guilt and deal with a lot of hassle..... Vs Somchai on a motorcycle pulls out in front of you on a SubSoi, he bangs his head, but theres no issue, he’s wearing a helmet... 

 

People who think not-wearing a helmet is victimless are not the sharpest tools in the box... 

 

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

We see a lot of the ’seemingly poor demographic’ breaking the traffic laws... taxi’s delivery drivers / riders, motorcyclists (on cheap scooters without helmets)  they do so because they know they get away with it and don’t fear any fines at all. 

The taxis I see generally drive pretty well.

er... ok. 

[richard_smith237]

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

And no doubt you think a guy making 15K a month should pay 20K for a helmet?

Gaslighting again... 

 

You seem incapable of making a balanced arguement without exaggerating or distorting a comment to you can generate your own response !!!.... 

 

You think all helmets cost 20 k baht ?

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

All things the same, is it your position that a guy wearing a helmet is safe, and not likely to be seriously injured when hit by a truck? 

More gaslighting...  You really need to learn the skill of debate without imagining what others are stating so you can present your outrage !!!!... utterly ridiculous... (yes... Gaslighting again !)

[Yellowtail]

34 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

You're in Bangkok.  In Pak Chong and Korat you won't see many Thai's wearing helmets.  In Korat city you can see many bikes with clearly underage riders + 2 school kid passengers - all without helmets, every morning.  They do that right in front of the police directing traffic on the main road through the city.

 

Maybe people are obeying the law more in the capital nowadays but I see no change out in the provinces.

Well, now you're changing your story, before in was Thais don't wear helmets, now it's most Thais out in the county. I have not been to Korat in a few years, but I was in Kabinburi for years and I would say most Thails in wear helmets there. 

 

In any event, I do not understand what business it is of mine or yours whether people want to wear a helmet or not. 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

More gaslighting...  You really need to learn the skill of debate without imagining what others are stating so you can present your outrage !!!!... utterly ridiculous... (yes... Gaslighting again !)

More gas-passing. 

 

I was asking a question that you have avoided answering.

 

That you are up in arms about people not wearing helmets you (apparently) don't give a whit about the law when you're speeding on the motorway is telling albeit not surprising. 

 

Again, what business it is of yours whether other people choose to wear a helmet? 

 

What negative affect does it have on you?