Daughter obtaining Thai ID while on Tourist Visa

[ExPatInChiangMai]

I am retired from USA and living in Chiang Mai on an O-visa based on retirement.

My daughter has just turned 21 and wishes to move to Thailand to live with me.  She has obtained a Tourist Visa and will be arriving in early April using her USA passport.  Her mother, my ex-wife, is Thai and is still living in USA.  My daughter was born in California.

We have begun the process of having my daughter obtain a Thai ID card (based on her mother).  The process requires that we obtain a California certified birth certificate and submit the application for a Thai birth certificate through the Los Angeles Thai Consulate.  This is in process now.

Assuming we jump through all the hoops to get her Thai ID (need Thai Birth Certificate and daughter and mother will appear in Bangkok Foreign Ministry), my question is:  What do we need to do about her Tourist Visa?  If she obtains her ID before her Visa expires, can we just “ignore” her need to depart?  Will that jeopardize her utilizing her USA passport for future trips to Thailand.

I understand it will be easier for her future travels to just use her Thai passport (once she has obtained it).  But, does anyone know the proper process for her converting her Tourist Visa into Thai residency?
 

[soi3eddie]

Converting the tourist visa into Thai residency. Don't beleive it is anything to do with ministry of foreign affairs either. Passport of entry will be irrevelent to obtaining Thai ID card. 

 

Here is what we did for our son. Entered Thailand, went to Amphur office (with an entourage of village head and householder). Need Thai birth certificate. Got son added to blue house book. With that, he was able to get Thai ID card.

 

With blue book and Thai ID card can get Thai passport. 

 

Would suggest once having Thai passport, go to local immigration office and ask them how to close out the entry on the tourist visa. Would expect that they have a mechanism for that. 

 

Maybe others here can advise further? 

 

 

[kiwiaussie]

she wont be able to 'close out' her visa as the previous poster suggested though it would be good if she could. 

 

If the enters Thailand on a foreign passport she'll be subject to the rules as they apply to that nationality. She'll have to leave and re-enter Thailand on her Thai passport. 

 

Fortunately, if she isn't planning on doing any imediate travel, she can get an extended one-year visa based off showing her Thai ID or showing she is the child of a Thai citizen https://www.thaicitizenship.com/thai-ancestry-visas/

Edited March 13, 2023 by kiwiaussie

[steve187]

soi3eddie, sounds about right to me one of the wife's family did his while here on a short trip, blue house book, Thai id  at local amphur, then passport at the passport office, had a birth certificate from the UK London Embassy.

there was a thread on here a little while ago about some taking up Thai nationality after arriving on another passport, and immigration cancelling the entry stamp, as now being Thai. I think it was one of the regular posters, i will see if i can find it, 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by steve187

[ExPatInChiangMai]

Thank you, KiwiAussie.  That is a very interesting article.

 

Since that is treated as an "extension of stay", my assumption is that she would NOT be allowed to work.  This may be a means of buying her more time if needed (she has also applied to CM International University) so we another "fall back" option (assuming she is accepted, she can extend based on Education).  So, I think we will be safe allowing her stay long enough for the Thai ID and passport solution.

 

Then, it looks like I'll get a Siem Reep and Angkor Wat vacation with her to clear out her USA passport.

 

 

[BritTim]

As far as being able to stay is concerned, it is possible to get a one-year extension of stay as a Thai who entered with a foreign passport. I believe she would still be subject to limitations of being on a tourist entry (no right to work).

 

The "obvious" solution once she has a Thai id card is to get a Thai passport, leave by air to somewhere like Phnom Penh and return on the Thai passport. However, that has proved problematic in the past. Immigration might claim that dual nationality is not allowed, and there have even been cases of airport immigration destroying the Thai passport of someone entering with that kind of history.

 

Carefully consider the advice that others give you on this. There must be a good way forward, but I am not sure what it is.

[soi3eddie]

1 hour ago, ExPatInChiangMai said:

my assumption is that she would NOT be allowed to work

If she has Thai citizenship and Thai ID card there is no reason that she couldn't work. Regardless of which passport she entered the country on. And anyway, how many millions of Thais don't have any kind of passport. How would any employer even know? And why would they care? She is a Thai citizen. 

 

[FriendlyFarang]

3 hours ago, ExPatInChiangMai said:

Since that is treated as an "extension of stay", my assumption is that she would NOT be allowed to work.

Of course she is allowed to work, she is Thai.

In theory she could just ignore any visa related things, a Thai citizen can't be fined for overstaying. In the system her American passport would be flagged as being on overstay, but this wouldn't have any consequences, besides maybe a small discussion upon departing and explaining that she is Thai.

If she want to stay 100% clean in the immigration system she can apply for a one year extension for being Thai, and then the next time she leaves Thailand depart with her US passport, and in the future use her Thai passport.

[BritTim]

6 hours ago, FriendlyFarang said:

Of course she is allowed to work, she is Thai.

In theory she could just ignore any visa related things, a Thai citizen can't be fined for overstaying. In the system her American passport would be flagged as being on overstay, but this wouldn't have any consequences, besides maybe a small discussion upon departing and explaining that she is Thai.

If she want to stay 100% clean in the immigration system she can apply for a one year extension for being Thai, and then the next time she leaves Thailand depart with her US passport, and in the future use her Thai passport.

Unless you know for a fact that this is correct (bearing in mind that it is highly uncertain whether Thailand allows dual citizenship) then be careful about being so definite in your advice. I do agree that no employer is likely to question whether there could be an issue when someone has a Thai id card, but I believe the legal situation is not as clear as you suggest.

[khunPer]

23 hours ago, ExPatInChiangMai said:

Assuming we jump through all the hoops to get her Thai ID (need Thai Birth Certificate and daughter and mother will appear in Bangkok Foreign Ministry), my question is:  What do we need to do about her Tourist Visa?  If she obtains her ID before her Visa expires, can we just “ignore” her need to depart?  Will that jeopardize her utilizing her USA passport for future trips to Thailand.

To my knowledge, your daughter needs to be Thai citizen (i.e. having a Thai passport) and registered in a blue house book to obtain a Thai ID-card.

 

When not a citizen she can be registered in an yellow house book for aliens, but of course need a permanent address in Thailand for that purpose. As alien she can obtain a pink ID-card, which doesn't give any rights as citizen.

 

Your first step should be to apply for Thai citizenship based on having a Thai mother. That process should probably be done through an embassy in the country of residence.

 

If she has entered Thailand on a foreign passport, she will probably need to depart on that passport also. Thereafter she can re-enter on a Thai passport, preferably one issued by an embassy abroad, as she has no departure stamp.

 

The normal procedure with dual citizenship is to depart Thailand on a Thai passport, and then enters and depart a foreign country with the foreign passport, and then re-enter Thailand on the Thai passport. Normally don't show the foreign passport in Thai immigration; however, when checking in for a flight out of Thailand, the foreign passport is normally used, due to the often demand for a visa for Thai nationals; i.e. you travel as a foreigner, registered by the airline.

 

Your daughter cannot work on a visa that is not suited for that – i.e., for example tourist visa – however, when being approved as Thai citizen, she can work.

[edwinchester]

13 hours ago, BritTim said:

Unless you know for a fact that this is correct (bearing in mind that it is highly uncertain whether Thailand allows dual citizenship) then be careful about being so definite in your advice. I do agree that no employer is likely to question whether there could be an issue when someone has a Thai id card, but I believe the legal situation is not as clear as you suggest.

Thailand allows dual nationality nothing uncertain about it at all.

[Puccini]

16 hours ago, BritTim said:

Unless you know for a fact that this is correct (bearing in mind that it is highly uncertain whether Thailand allows dual citizenship) then be careful about being so definite in your advice. I do agree that no employer is likely to question whether there could be an issue when someone has a Thai id card, but I believe the legal situation is not as clear as you suggest.

The situation is crystal clear. As a Thai national and regardless being also a US national, she has the full af a Thai national.

[Neeranam]

On 3/13/2023 at 3:27 PM, soi3eddie said:

Would suggest once having Thai passport, go to local immigration office and ask them how to close out the entry on the tourist visa. Would expect that they have a mechanism for that

Don't need to wait for passport. 

I went to immigration when I got my Thai ID card, they wrote in UK passport I'd become Thai. 

She could just wait till it expired. 

[Neeranam]

6 hours ago, khunPer said:

To my knowledge, your daughter needs to be Thai citizen (i.e. having a Thai passport) and registered in a blue house book to obtain a Thai ID-card

To be a Thai citizen, you don't need a passport. 

[khunPer]

16 hours ago, Neeranam said:

To be a Thai citizen, you don't need a passport. 

Right, but when arriving from abroad – as is the case here – she might need one...

[soi3eddie]

On 3/13/2023 at 8:13 AM, ExPatInChiangMai said:

We have begun the process of having my daughter obtain a Thai ID card (based on her mother).  The process requires that we obtain a California certified birth certificate and submit the application for a Thai birth certificate through the Los Angeles Thai Consulate.  This is in process now.

It is a shame that it wasn't started earlier, but a Thai passport could have been obtained while still in the USA before travelling to Thailand. Would appear not enought time now before planned travel. My Thai son got his Thai birth certificate and Thai passport issued from the Thai Consulate in London before he ever travelled to Thailand. 

 

No critiscism of the OP but I'm curious as to why so many people who are eligible for citizenships, leave it such a long time to apply. In my mind it's a very important matter to have travel and citizenship documents for all countries a child or adult is entitled to. My son had both British and Thai birth certificates and passports within 2-3 months of birth. Just makes life a lot easier and avoids these kind of issues later.

 

[kiwiaussie]

On 3/13/2023 at 4:09 PM, ExPatInChiangMai said:

Thank you, KiwiAussie.  That is a very interesting article.

 

Since that is treated as an "extension of stay", my assumption is that she would NOT be allowed to work.  This may be a means of buying her more time if needed (she has also applied to CM International University) so we another "fall back" option (assuming she is accepted, she can extend based on Education).  So, I think we will be safe allowing her stay long enough for the Thai ID and passport solution.

 

Then, it looks like I'll get a Siem Reep and Angkor Wat vacation with her to clear out her USA passport.

 

 

If she's got an ID card etc, then no one will question her. An ID card is all that is needed to get her a bank account, social security etc and be paid just like any other Thai.

 

Work permit and visas are separate departments. So for all intents and purposes she'll be treated as a Thai for everything except visa issues, so she'll be on the visa treadmill until she returns on a Thai passport and closes that loop. Strange but true. 

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, khunPer said:

Right, but when arriving from abroad – as is the case here – she might need one...

Of course she needs a passport to get into the country. You said she needs a Thai passport to get an ID card, which is not true. 

[khunPer]

20 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Of course she needs a passport to get into the country. You said she needs a Thai passport to get an ID card, which is not true. 

Again, she lives abroad, and therefore need a Thai passport to get into the country as a citizen to be registered in a Blue House Book and apply for a Thai ID-card. I'm specific answering OP's question, I'm not talking in general...

[n00dle]

Just now, khunPer said:

Again, she lives abroad, and therefore need a Thai passport to get into the country as a citizen to be registered in a Blue House Book and apply for a Thai ID-card. I'm specific answering OP's question, I'm not talking in general...

she can enter on any passport she wants and apply for a thai id card. 

[khunPer]

4 minutes ago, n00dle said:

she can enter on any passport she wants and apply for a thai id card. 

She is born abroad and have not yet got her Thai citizenship, which according to OP is an ongoing process at the moment, she has entered on a tourist visa, so she is an American tourist at the moment...????

[Neeranam]

On 3/15/2023 at 2:08 PM, khunPer said:

Right, but when arriving from abroad – as is the case here – she might need one...

You can't get a Thai passport without a Thai ID card.

[BritTim]

6 hours ago, Neeranam said:

You can't get a Thai passport without a Thai ID card.

When a Thai is born outside Thailand, it is possible to get the baby a passport, but not an id card.

[khunPer]

17 hours ago, Neeranam said:

You can't get a Thai passport without a Thai ID card.

Yes, you can, when born and living abroad. You cannot get a Thai ID-card when not living in Thailand, which is the problem for OP...????

[ExPatInChiangMai]

I wanted to give a close out report on my daughter. Her Thai mother brought her Thai birth certificate issued by the Thai Consulate in LA. They registered her residence at her Grandma’s house n Bangkok and received her Thai ID. At the same time she got her Thai passport.  SAME DAY! (Maybe US State Dept can learn something from Thailand). 
 

Went to Thai immigration in Chiang Mai to see how they wanted to deal with her Tourist Visa. 
 

Sure enough, as several of you suggested — she must leave Thailand and renter on her Thai passport.  So, her aunt will be taking her Mai Sai to exit and return. 
 

just a bit more nonsense: if she isn’t able to leave by June 3 (her 60 day depart date), I guess she will have to EXTEND the useless tourist visa in order to have time to depart!

 

if her aunt wasn’t nearby, I’m sure we would have just ignored it.  Going forward she is Thai. At least while she’s in Thailand. 
 

thanks to everyone for your input and help

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 3/16/2023 at 1:37 PM, khunPer said:

She is born abroad and have not yet got her Thai citizenship, which according to OP is an ongoing process at the moment, she has entered on a tourist visa, so she is an American tourist at the moment...????

She already has Thai citizenship. She got it as a birthright through her mother, as stated in the OP. Getting either a Thai ID or passport are both contingent on being a citizen. You can't get either one if you're not already a citizen.

[richard_smith237]

On 3/17/2023 at 8:26 AM, khunPer said:

On 3/16/2023 at 2:36 PM, Neeranam said:

You can't get a Thai passport without a Thai ID card.

Yes, you can, when born and living abroad. You cannot get a Thai ID-card when not living in Thailand, which is the problem for OP...????

Also, (Thai) children can get a Passport without a Thai ID. 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

On 3/16/2023 at 9:37 AM, khunPer said:

She is born abroad and have not yet got her Thai citizenship, which according to OP is an ongoing process at the moment, she has entered on a tourist visa, so she is an American tourist at the moment...????

She already has Thai citizenship. She got it as a birthright through her mother, as stated in the OP. Getting either a Thai ID or passport are both contingent on being a citizen. You can't get either one if you're not already a citizen.

Semantics - Its pretty obvious KhunPer was referring to ‘proof of’ in the manner of Thai ID card and Passport. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Semantics - Its pretty obvious KhunPer was referring to ‘proof of’ in the manner of Thai ID card and Passport. 

It's hardly semantics. This whole thread is about how to get a Thai ID (and/or passport). To do so means following certain steps in order. The very first step is to have Thai citizenship.

 

And I might be wrong, but the way KhunPer has worded it certainly makes it sound like he doesn't think she's a Thai citizen yet.

 

Anyone reading his statements could easily come away with a misunderstanding of the basic principles involved. 

[BritTim]

This could end up being even more of a headache than suggested in the OP. You cannot change the passport used when doing the border bounce by land. Thus, the idea of a quick in-out at Mae Sai is not going to solve the problem.

 

There is liable to be an issue even if an in-out is done by air. Immigration officials at the airport are unhappy when they see an unused Thai passport (issued in Thailand) being used for entry to Thailand. There have been some dramas, including officials insisting that the Thai passport cannot be used and you must again use the foreign passport. On one notable occasion, the official even destroyed the Thai passport. I think they sometimes allow the blank Thai passport to be used for entry, but not always.

 

Since others have faced this issue, hopefully someone will post how it was eventually resolved. One idea I have is to leave on the foreign passport, enter another country on the Thai passport, damage the Thai passport, and try to have it replaced by a Thai embassy overseas. The issue I describe above does not exist when entering with a Thai passport issued abroad. I would not advise doing this without thoroughly researching the requirements for replacing damaged passports at the embassy you plan on using.