What health insurance company?

[4MyEgo]

12 hours ago, Captor said:

If self insuring I guess you will use

the government hospitals, right? I have no problem with using them mysef if they are OK and having good doctors. I more and more understands the people who, like yourself, are self insuring. Maybe that will be the path for me as well.

I will cross that path when I get there, if ever.

 

The above said, in the event of an event, I will go to a private hospital as I do not have the faith of others in public hospitals over my way in Isaan, that said, I did go to a University Hospital that Sheryl told me about to do a procedure by a plastic surgeon, i.e. remove a Basil Carcinoma from my face.

Well spoken Associate Professor did the day procedure under local anaesthetic with learning Doctors watching on, cost 6,000 baht, 2 and a half hour drive each way, worth it in my opinion.

 

I had a bad experience with the local public hospitals misdiagnosing me and having to wait hours on end to see a Doctor, suffice to say, the private hospitals aren't that expensive, 2,000 to 4,000 baht and you can buy your meds outside of the hospital as that is where they sting you. My wife tells the Doctor that her uncle has a pharmacy and she will buy the meds there as he will sell them to her at cost, the Doctor gets a nurse to witness what was said so he is in the clear if questioned by his superiors.

 

From what I have seen and heard of other farangs being treated for stents, hospitalisation for many things, accidents, events etc, I can withstand a hit and not having an event in the time I have been here, self insuring will eventually build up to an amount that I would be comfortable with, e.g. 3 million, that said, if I have an event in the interim, I will have to take the hit.

 

If you eat well, exercise, don't stress, get the right sleep and drink in moderation, your mechanics should see you through. In the event of an accident in a car, 1st class insurance will take care of that, travelling, travel insurance will take care of that, walking on the street, (nope) because don't want that bus hitting me. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by 4MyEgo

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, gearbox said:

The insurance companies are for profit organisations which employ actuaries and statisticians to set premiums, and age and pre-existing conditions are probably the most important factors.

Yes, agree, fact of the matter is my pre-existing condition occurred 15 years ago without an incident since, however there is nothing in the one size doesn't fit all category that allows for these companies to think outside the square, e.g. annual check ups, then they can decide whether to continue insuring you or not, suffice to say, they will stick that annual increase in and say, "up to you" we will insure you, but at this price, no annual check ups required, yeh right, no thanks and yes, they are right, it was "up to me" ????

 

10 hours ago, gearbox said:

Especially age - you may think you are healthy today, but could be very unhealthy in a matter of day or week.

Of course, but if you don't smoke, eat healthy, watch your weight, exercise, sleep right, don't stress and drink in moderation, take your supplements, I think unless something out of the ordinary hits you, you can live a good life to as long as your ticker allows it, problem there is too many expats don't do the above and therein lay the problem IMO.

Edited March 16, 2023 by 4MyEgo

[scottiejohn]

5 hours ago, Toolong said:

Ermm...........dunno!???? Don't retirement ext's  need health insurance? I genuinely thought they did!! I am very sorry if I have given wrong information. ????

 

I have an extension based on marriage. I find the marriage extension/ application such a complicated process and I have often regretted not being able to get a retirement ext' because of the high-cost (for me) of annual health insurance, which......to my understanding, is a requirement for such an extension. 

 

scottiejohn, I still think my understanding is correct about that requirement (with coverage up to 3million,afaik)........despite you not needing it somehow. If I am wrong, scottie, I would be delighted (really!) to BE wrong, and I'll be the first to declare myself a misinformed fool! ????????

 

 

Those who entered with a non-OA visa and got a retirement extension based on that visa need health insurance.  If you extend a non O-visa insurance is not required, just the money in the bank/monthly income and usual phots, rent etc documents!

[bkk6060]

Most of the people I know reaching 70 are going uninsured now.

Lots more questions it seems being asked as the companies want to deep dive into pre-existing.

But, it seems really ridiculous something like if you take cholesterol meds they will not cover you for any future heart related issues.  Or,  having skin cancer and being told you would not be covered for any type of cancer in your entire body.

I just hope those who claim self insured are not naive about what will be needed in a major occurrence.  100,00 b is not going to cut it.  It you have 2 to 3 million set aside it probably would be a good start.

Edited March 16, 2023 by bkk6060

[Captor]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

This issue has been done to death in prior threads. Use google search function, not forum search. "health insurance site:aseannow.com"

 

Key issue is whether you get local (Thai issued) policy or an internationally issued expat policy.  Be aware that Thai companies are allowed to raise rates on an individual basis after you make a claim which to my mind negates the value of insurance.  They also have a generally worse track record when it comes to pay outs.

 

Definitely want a policy that does full medical underwriting rather than moratorium basis. Otherwise you do not know in advance what may be covered in the first few years.

Whether Thai policy or international policy, at your age options will be limited.

 

And should always get through a broker. Many of us use AA.

 

 

OK, I will search into aseannow from outside, with Google. Did not know that it is better and that aseannow search don´t work so well. Thanks.

[Captor]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

To be fair, his incident was not quite as he describes it.

 

the pre-existing condition which he did not declare was quite relevant to the request for pre-authoritzation that was investigated and led to cancellation of his policy, and was noted in the medical documentation submitted by the hospital with that request.

 

While BPH is a totally different condition than prostate cancer it significantly increases the odds of needing a prostate biopsy to distinguish benign from malignant prostate growth, and the pre-authorization request  which triggered this was  for a prostate biopsy.

 

And the condition was documented in  tests he had done prior to taking out the policy.

 

With any policy, it is essential to declare all health conditions at time of application but I have never yet heard of any insurer cancelling a policy over "ingrowing toenail, botox injections, bunions etc". The key issue is whether the non-declared condition would, if it had been made known, affected the coverage the insurer would offer, and BPH most certainly would have.

 

I have APril insurance and have had many claims paid by them with no problem. But I declared all existing conditions (including one I had never seen a doctor for but detected during routine check up) and accepted an exclusion accordingly. (I was given choice  of exclusion or higher premium, opted for the former).

 

 

Yes, I have tried apply for April but they want to have journals and reports from issues happen 30 years and 23 years ago. And they want to have the same from when I had Covid 2 years ago. I felt a little bit tired of trying to provide all that. Also I am pretty sure the doctor from back then 23 years ago, when I had an meniskus operation, is not alive anymore and the clinic is gone. So can not provide all what they want.  And reports and journals because of Covid? Is that not a little bit too much?

Edited March 16, 2023 by Captor

[jerrymahoney]

14 hours ago, gearbox said:

The insurance companies are for profit organisations which employ actuaries and statisticians to set premiums, and age and pre-existing conditions are probably the most important factors. Especially age - you may think you are healthy today, but could be very unhealthy in a matter of day or week.

I was able to take out a modest life insurance policy with a Thai company at age 70 for 7 years. That means, based upon their medical underwriting, THEY expect for me to live at least another 7 years.

[simon43]

7 minutes ago, Captor said:

Yes, I have tried apply for April but they want to have journals and reports from issues happen 30 years and 23 years ago. And they want to have the same from when I had Covid 2 years ago. I felt a little bit tired of trying to provide all that. Also I am pretty sure the doctor from back then 23 years ago, when I had an meniskus operation, is not alive anymore and the clinic is gone. So can not provide all what they want.  And reports and journals because of Covid? Is that not a little bit too much?

Well, although Sheryl will no doubt disagree with me, I'd say that you "dodged a bullet" by not taking out insurance with April International.  Because I feel strongly that I never mislead this company when I completed their application form, I have submitted a formal complaint to the insurance ombudsman in France, with a claim for financial damages.  I'll let all know what the outcome is ????

[KannikaP]

15 hours ago, simon43 said:

April rejected my claim because I had failed to declare an unrelated condition (slight BPH), even though that condition had never been formally diagnosed by any doctor.....

How did April get to know then?

[scubascuba3]

One of the many problems with insurance companies is they are quick to exclude conditions but they don't reduce the premium, seems plain wrong

[KannikaP]

19 hours ago, yeahbutif said:

All I can say is I chose WRLife as the quarterly payment are with in my budget at £396 . I'm 65 and no heath problems.. but will see if they pay out if needed.. as can't find anything on claims yet .. 

So you will pay your £396 x 4 for 5 or ten years, only to find that they will not pay out for something?

WRLife do say that they will ignore any pre-existing conditions, but I do not believe it until someone posts to confirm that

[yeahbutif]

20 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

So you will pay your £396 x 4 for 5 or ten years, only to find that they will not pay out for something?

WRLife do say that they will ignore any pre-existing conditions, but I do not believe it until someone posts to confirm that

Yes feel better about having something.bills can add up fast here in a private hospital... And could cost you easy £10.000 in a flash.. some people say couz go home UK if needed big op. But a heart attack won't let you go home. And besides in my case Thai lady won't be able to come UK and look after me.. so plan on staying here.. but upto you ..do what suits you..

[BritManToo]

48 minutes ago, yeahbutif said:

. some people say couz go home UK if needed big op. But a heart attack won't let you go home.

Unless you live next to the hospital you'll probably die in the 'pretend ambulance' as the crew drive you to the private hospital that will pay them the biggest bounty. 

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, Captor said:

Yes, I have tried apply for April but they want to have journals and reports from issues happen 30 years and 23 years ago. And they want to have the same from when I had Covid 2 years ago. I felt a little bit tired of trying to provide all that. Also I am pretty sure the doctor from back then 23 years ago, when I had an meniskus operation, is not alive anymore and the clinic is gone. So can not provide all what they want.  And reports and journals because of Covid? Is that not a little bit too much?

I don' t thinkApril won't enrol you at 65 in any event.

 

Among international insurers your best option is probably Cigna Global. Not to be confused with Cigna Thailand. 

[giglo124]

Cigna is amazing ime. I just call and get pre approval an hour or 2 before a visit and everything is pre approved no hasle nothing out of my pocket

[Captor]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I don' t thinkApril won't enrol you at 65 in any event.

 

Among international insurers your best option is probably Cigna Global. Not to be confused with Cigna Thailand. 

Thanks, yes, I will try with them as well.

[Captor]

15 minutes ago, Captor said:

Thanks, yes, I will try with them as well.

It is nice to read comments like this regarding the different companies. But it look like it is focus on April, Cigna and WR. I think they are all brokers. Not sure about Cigna. AA is a popular broker as well.

But there are many others out there but they seems not to be so popular. Allianz in Germany for example and Generalli in Italy, they are the biggest in the world. And there are for sure a lot in Switzerland and Japan as well.

Allianz and Generalli are insurance companies and probably sold by brokers. I Have seen Allianz in some broker webpage but not Generalli.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

4 minutes ago, Captor said:

It is nice to read comments like this regarding the different companies. But it look like it is focus on April, Cigna and WR. I think they are all brokers. Not sure about Cigna. AA is a popular broker as well.

But there are many others out there but they seems not to be so popular. Allianz in Germany for example and Generalli in Italy, they are the biggest in the world. And there are for sure a lot in Switzerland and Japan as well.

Allianz and Generalli are insurance companies and probably sold by brokers. I Have seen Allianz in some broker webpage but not Generalli.

Cigna is an insurance company. April and WRLife are insurance brokers.

 

If you pursue a quotation from WRLife, I would suggest you ask them to provide you with full details of the insurance company that will bear the risk of loss under the policy they issue, including full name, legal address and which insurance regulator has licensed them. Ask about financial strength ratings from AM Best, Standard and Poor or other rating agency.

[Captor]

4 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Cigna is an insurance company. April and WRLife are insurance brokers.

 

If you pursue a quotation from WRLife, I would suggest you ask them to provide you with full details of the insurance company that will bear the risk of loss under the policy they issue, including full name, legal address and which insurance regulator has licensed them. Ask about financial strength ratings from AM Best, Standard and Poor or other rating agency.

OK, thanks. Will do.

[jerrymahoney]

5 hours ago, Captor said:

OK, thanks. Will do.

From WrLife Policy document:

 

(pg 1) WrLife is a master broker which has a binding authority with:

One or several licensed Insurance(s) Company(ies)

 

A licensed Insurance broker Network selling many covers in any field, from many providers worldwide, including the expat world, and in London, the premier world marketplace for insurance and reinsurance.

 

The Master broker is WRLIFE LLP London.

 

(pg 17) MODULE 8: ANY INSURANCE FROM AN INTERNAL BROKER

 

We are also licensed broker and we can find covers from any provider even from competitors.

The WrLife global architecture also owns brokerage companies. One is in France for example and has the insurance broker license for all Europe. 

 

https://www.wrlife.net/documents/WRLIFE POLICY ENGLISH.pdf

[scubascuba3]

36 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

From WrLife Policy document:

 

(pg 1) WrLife is a master broker which has a binding authority with:

One or several licensed Insurance(s) Company(ies)

 

A licensed Insurance broker Network selling many covers in any field, from many providers worldwide, including the expat world, and in London, the premier world marketplace for insurance and reinsurance.

 

The Master broker is WRLIFE LLP London.

 

(pg 17) MODULE 8: ANY INSURANCE FROM AN INTERNAL BROKER

 

We are also licensed broker and we can find covers from any provider even from competitors.

The WrLife global architecture also owns brokerage companies. One is in France for example and has the insurance broker license for all Europe. 

 

https://www.wrlife.net/documents/WRLIFE POLICY ENGLISH.pdf

sounds like vague waffle

[jerrymahoney]

11 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

sounds like vague waffle

As you have said multiple times before.

 

BTW M. Shrdlu is just playing games as he knows, as in the past, WrLife is unlikely to give you a straight answer to the question he proposes.

Edited March 16, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

As you have said multiple times before.

 

BTW M. Shrdlu is just playing games as he knows, as in the past, WrLife is unlikely to give you a straight answer to the question he proposes.

i realise that, wrlife won't provide those answers 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

sounds like vague waffle

It would be ok if WRLife would disclose the identity of the insurance company when providing quotes, however I'm not sure that this is the case.

 

If a broker does not disclose the identity of the insurer providing cover, courts may deem that the broker is the insurer. This is something that brokers normally rigorously avoid by making full disclosure of the identity of the insurer. 

[jerrymahoney]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

i realise that, wrlife won't provide those answers 

I agree that a conventional health/medical insurer will most often have a statement that the policies are underwritten by AXA, or Allianz, or Zurich, or maybe a Bermuda based insurer.

 

WrLife often states that they are not a conventional health insurer.

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[jerrymahoney]

4 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

It would be ok if WRLife would disclose the identity of the insurance company when providing quotes, however I'm not sure that this is the case.

 

If a broker does not disclose the identity of the insurer providing cover, courts may deem that the broker is the insurer. This is something that brokers normally rigorously avoid by making full disclosure of the identity of the insurer. 

You are again presuming that the 'identity of the insurer providing cover' is a static thing. They MAY have have a different underwriter for any given policy for only a short-term cover and the 'identity' MAY change repeatedly.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

12 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

You are again presuming that the 'identity of the insurer providing cover' is a static thing. They MAY have have a different underwriter for any given policy for only a short-term cover and the 'identity' MAY change repeatedly.

Yes, they may use different insurers, but it is normal practice for an insurance broker to disclose the identity of the insurer to their prospective client or policyholder at the time of quotation or, at the very latest, when accepting an order to bind coverage. The prospective policyholder should be given the opportunity to decide whether the insurance company being proposed by the broker is acceptable.

 

Major insurance brokers are usually very careful to make sure that the identity of the insurance company is disclosed to their clients because failure to do so may make the broker assume policy liabilities or obligations (claims, among others) that aren't normally theirs.

 

The insurer providing the coverage won't change during the validity of the policy and the insurer's identity and legal address would normally be clearly stated on the policy itself. 

 

 

 

 

 

[brewsterbudgen]

19 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Most of the people I know reaching 70 are going uninsured now.

Lots more questions it seems being asked as the companies want to deep dive into pre-existing.

But, it seems really ridiculous something like if you take cholesterol meds they will not cover you for any future heart related issues.  Or,  having skin cancer and being told you would not be covered for any type of cancer in your entire body.

I just hope those who claim self insured are not naive about what will be needed in a major occurrence.  100,00 b is not going to cut it.  It you have 2 to 3 million set aside it probably would be a good start.

Surely it's not the case that if you're taking meds for blood pressure and cholesterol (and have been for years), that you won't be covered for a heart attack or stroke?

[jerrymahoney]

28 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Yes, they may use different insurers, but it is normal practice for an insurance broker to disclose the identity of the insurer to their prospective client or policyholder at the time of quotation or, at the very latest, when accepting an order to bind coverage. The prospective policyholder should be given the opportunity to decide whether the insurance company being proposed by the broker is acceptable.

 

Major insurance brokers are usually very careful to make sure that the identity of the insurance company is disclosed to their clients because failure to do so may make the broker assume policy liabilities or obligations (claims, among others) that aren't normally theirs.

 

The insurer providing the coverage won't change during the validity of the policy and the insurer's identity and legal address would normally be clearly stated on the policy itself. 

Once again, you have chosen to enumerate the things that they should be doing that they have chosen not to do.

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Surely it's not the case that if you're taking meds for blood pressure and cholesterol (and have been for years), that you won't be covered for a heart attack or stroke?

Could be an exclusion, best to check