Are you thinking of buying a BYD EV?

[Lacessit]

24 minutes ago, In the jungle said:

Well he didn't ask which was a good alternative!

The aim of any replacement technology is to be cheaper and more efficient than its predecessor, permit me to doubt lemons fulfill the second requirement.

ASEAN would not be complete without a cohort of aspiring comedians.

 

[In the jungle]

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Staggering #s, but the #s don't lie.

 

Now someone tell me again, how much more expensive EVs are ????

 

14 kms per L/91 @ ฿40.5 baht today.

20k ÷ 14 kms = L X ฿40.5 = ฿57,857.14 X 8 yrs = ฿462,857

 

OK.  Gas hog status confirmed.

[GroveHillWanderer]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Do you know how long it takes to develop mining and processing infrastructure for any deposit?

What are you saying is an alternative battery material?

There are a number of alternatives to lithium currently under development. Probably the closest to widespread commercial availability is sodium. In fact BYD already announced it will be offering CATL sodium batteries in some models starting this year.

 

Will Sodium Batteries Replace Lithium Batteries?

 

 

 

Others being worked on include Magnesium, Sodium-Sulfur, Sodium-antimony, Seawater, Graphene, Manganese Hydrogen, Zinc and Iron-air, among others.

Edited September 19, 2023 by GroveHillWanderer

[In the jungle]

Just now, Lacessit said:

The aim of any replacement technology is to be cheaper and more efficient than its predecessor, permit me to doubt lemons fulfill the second requirement.

ASEAN would not be complete without a cohort of aspiring comedians.

 

That is a bit of a simplistic approach.  EV evangelists bang on about environmental considerations normally. 

[Keep Right]

I will never buy an EV. I very much like internal combustion engines.

[Screaming]

6 minutes ago, Keep Right said:

I will never buy an EV. I very much like internal combustion engines.

I also enjoy internal combustion engines, especially large ones. What a thrill to drive and listen to. I missed out on importing a Corvette with a 427 engine before imports were banned in Thailand. Now I am limited to sedans with a V6. No sissy EVs for me.

[matchar]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

I'm seriously considering buying either BYD Atto 3 EV or MG ZS EV.....really torn between deciding between them. The wife and I visited BYD and MG dealerships today/19 Sep and test drove a MG ZS EV this afternoon....I was impressed with the drive quality and power.   We also visited the BYD dealership this morning to look at the Atto 3 and also could have done an offerred test drive but didn't take them up on the offer....but going back tomorrow morning and do a test drive.

 

For the Atto 3 Extended Range model with 60KWH battery the price is Bt1,199,900 until the end of November when the govt subsidiary will dry up for that BYD model.   The freebies include:

 

- a basic warranty on vehicle 8 yrs/160Km,

- Traction battery warranty is also 8 yrs/160Km,

- Free Maintenance for 8 yrs/160Km,

- free road service 24 hrs a day for 8 yrs,

- free 1st class insurance for 1 yr, 

- free home wall charge (7KW) including installation,

- free portable (granny) charger,

- free Vehicle to Load adapter, 

- free car registration,

- and free matching carpet matts, rear luggage, license plate frames

 

Now for the MG EZ EV with 50KWH battery the price is Bt1,013,000 until the end of September....only another 10 days or so....appears the govt subsidiary on this model goes away before the subsidiary for the Atto 3.....beyond my brain power to figure out why the govt subsidiary length of time is shorter on the MG model vs the BYD model....but it is what it is.   But here are the freebies included in the MG dealership quote today:

 

- Free 1st class insurance for 3 (three) years....normally it's 1 yr but a special deal right now adds 2 more free years for a total of 3 yrs 1st class insurance

- free labor for 5 times/visits

- basic warranty on vehicle 4 years/120Km

- traction battery warranty 8 year/160Km

- free home wall charger (7KW) and installation

- free portable (granny) charger

- free ceramic windows film (40/60/80% light blocking)...I would go with 80% on the side window/sunroof and 40% on the front window

- free vehicle to load adapter

- free roadside assistance 24hrs/day for 4 years

- free towing 100Km in case of emergency

- free spray rust proofing

- free car registration

- free license plate frames

 

Yeap....seriously considering these two models.  I need to sh$t or get off the pot deciding on which one especially since the govt subsidiary soon runs out, especially for the MG at the end of September/this month....got until end of November for the Atto 3.  

 

The BYD warranty coverage pretty much 8 yrs/160Km across the board for the car and traction battery is better than the MG car warranty of 4 years/120Km & 8 yrs/160Km for the traction battery.    The MG free 1st class insurance for 3 yrs vs only 1 is definitely a good thing as 1st class insurance ain't cheap.    For the external appearance of both the MG and BYD the wife and I like them both....but when it comes to the interior we undecided on which is best.  The interest of the BYD is definitely bigger probably due to its chassis being designed solely for an EV whereas the MG chassis was originally designed for a combustion engine and adapted for an EV/electric motor.   The MG interior is more classic where the BYD interior is more eccentric but still nice....much of this is a matter of opinion that will vary from individual to individual.

 

Wish the wife and I luck as to "if" we can decide to buy either the MG or BYD....but if we are going to do it we do to do it ASAP if wanting either car at a much lower price due to the soon to go bye-bye govt subsidiary although there is talk the subsidiary may continue in a new form/lower amount in the coming months/for 2024 but I doubt any future subsidiary will be a good as the current one.

 

P.S.  I currently drive a 2009 Toyota Fortuner 3.0L diesel which I will be keeping....a great car that I bought brand new, kept well maintained, and it still runs and looks great with 315,000Km on it's odometer.   But at the same time I want to get an BEV....have one car that totally electric...cheap to drive at least "fuel" wise.

 

 

 

I could be wrong but I'm betting even after the subsidies end the prices will stay the same or fall due to increased competition.

 

Battery prices are coming down and EV prices are still trending downwards in China after the subsidies ended.

[KhunLA]

32 minutes ago, In the jungle said:

OK.  Gas hog status confirmed.

I guess my Vios & Mazda 2 were gas hogs also, because they got the same, sometimes.

 

And don't mention diesel, as I wouldn't buy anything the spews that disgusting, health hazardous exhaust.  Shameful it's still legal to use.

[KhunLA]

9 minutes ago, Screaming said:

I also enjoy internal combustion engines, especially large ones. What a thrill to drive and listen to. I missed out on importing a Corvette with a 427 engine before imports were banned in Thailand. Now I am limited to sedans with a V6. No sissy EVs for me.

I guess you're not concerned about performance, just noise ... ????

[Screaming]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

I guess you're not concerned about performance, just noise ... ????

In 1971 I attended two races in different parts of the country where the new Porsche 917K were racing. These Porsche 917K engines were rated at a peak of 1,500 horse power. Yes, they made allot of noise, but what a thrill it was. Noise is good!

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Staggering #s, but the #s don't lie.

 

Now someone tell me again, how much more expensive EVs are ????

 

14 kms per L/91 @ ฿40.5 baht today.

20k ÷ 14 kms = L X ฿40.5 = ฿57,857.14 X 8 yrs = ฿462,857

 

A somewhat misleading post as the price of E91 over the past 8 years has ranged from lowest B16.68 in April 2020 to current high of B40.18

Using the above calculations price savings are from B190,628 to ฿462,857

I doubt that there is anyone on this forum that can predict the cost of E91 for the next 8 years going forward

Historical Retail Oil Prices

https://www.bangchak.co.th/en/oilprice/historical?year=2023

 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

I guess my Vios & Mazda 2 were gas hogs also, because they got the same, sometimes.

 

And don't mention diesel, as I wouldn't buy anything the spews that disgusting, health hazardous exhaust.  Shameful it's still legal to use.

You have no issue with diesel being used  for the production and  transportation of your products that you purchase

I yet to see a car  transporter ( 9 car load ) using an electric engine 

Edited September 19, 2023 by vinny41
typo

[KhunLA]

40 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

A somewhat misleading post as the price of E91 over the past 8 years has ranged from lowest B16.68 in April 2020 to current high of B40.18

Using the above calculations price savings are from B190,628 to ฿462,857

I doubt that there is anyone on this forum that can predict the cost of E91 for the next 8 years going forward

Historical Retail Oil Prices

https://www.bangchak.co.th/en/oilprice/historical?year=2023

 

My calculation was for when I own our EV, (35 ish & up) and for Celcius's future expense (who I replied to), but feel free to spin it anyway you think it will fit for your spin.  Don't forget the 44.88 or so it hit last year.

source

Edited September 19, 2023 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Screaming said:

In 1971 I attended two races in different parts of the country where the new Porsche 917K were racing. These Porsche 917K engines were rated at a peak of 1,500 horse power. Yes, they made allot of noise, but what a thrill it was. Noise is good!

You better keep that memory, since when it comes to production cars people can actually buy, EVs will beat ICEVs everyday when it comes to performance.

[KhunLA]

29 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

You have no issue with diesel being used  for the production and  transportation of your products that you purchase

I yet to see a car  transporter ( 9 car load ) using an electric engine 

I don't control their transport decisions.  If up to me, the countries, where possible, would be, or turning all solar, the last 30 ish years.  Diesel would have been banned  a long time ago.

 

I can only control my little world.

 

Hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform.

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, matchar said:

I could be wrong but I'm betting even after the subsidies end the prices will stay the same or fall due to increased competition.

 

Battery prices are coming down and EV prices are still trending downwards in China after the subsidies ended.

manufacturers that are taking part in the  subsidy scheme are committed to build 1 vehicle in Thailand in  2024 for every vehicle that they sold if they are unable to start local production in 2024 they are  committed to build 1.5 vehicles in 2025

BEV pickups are only eligible for the subsidy if they are built in Thailand

After Jan 1st 2026 must use local produced battery 

The unknown is what will the price be of the made in Thailand EV will they be the same price as the imported EV ( with subsidy ) or will they be lower

Will the manufacturers decide they wouldn't sell in Thailand they will use their Plants in Thailand purely for exports

In 2026 if Chinese batteries are 30% lower than Thailand it would appear manufacturers are excluded from purchasing those batteries as they have to purchase local produced batteries

https://kpmg.com/th/en/home/insights/2022/05/th-tax-news-flash-issue-130.html

[ozimoron]

6 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Do you know how long it takes to develop mining and processing infrastructure for any deposit?

What are you saying is an alternative battery material?

They recently decided to start mining lithium in NW Australia as well.

 

Sodium ion batteries, among others.

 

https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/electric-vehicle-battery-makers-test-a-future-without-lithium

[vinny41]

24 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

My calculation was for when I own our EV, (35 ish & up) and for Celcius's future expense (who I replied to), but feel free to spin it anyway you think it will fit for your spin.  Don't forget the 44.88 or so it hit last year.

source

No spin the Historical Retail Oil Prices state for the first 2 years of ownership 2020 and 2021 E91 never reached B35 or above only in 2022 did E91 exceed B35 or higher

https://www.bangchak.co.th/en/oilprice/historical?year=2021

 

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

No spin the Historical Retail Oil Prices state for the first 2 years of ownership 2020 and 2021 E91 never reached B35 or above only in 2022 did E91 exceed B35 or higher

https://www.bangchak.co.th/en/oilprice/historical?year=2021

 

And we didn't buy our EV until later in 2022.  My reply, again, is in reference to our ownership of our EV, and present & future savings, along with the person I replied to, future savings at today's price.

 

It really seems reading comprehension is not a forte' of AN membership.

[vinny41]

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

@Celsius If you put 20k kms on a year, we calculated we'll probably save over 460k baht, just on petrol cost, with our EV.

 

That's an accurate cost of MG ZS ICE version (we owned), vs our EV version, we own now.  Doesn't even include the oil changes (10k) & tune ups.

 

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Staggering #s, but the #s don't lie.

 

Now someone tell me again, how much more expensive EVs are ????

 

14 kms per L/91 @ ฿40.5 baht today.

20k ÷ 14 kms = L X ฿40.5 = ฿57,857.14 X 8 yrs = ฿462,857

 

 

25 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

And we didn't buy our EV until later in 2022.  My reply, again, is in reference to our ownership of our EV, and present & future savings, along with the person I replied to, future savings at today's price.

 

It really seems reading comprehension is not a forte' of AN membership.

Its Strange that you never mentioned in your original post to your ownership of your EV and present and & future savings at E91 prices today and yet you failed to mention that in the 2 years of ownership E91 prices ranged from potential B20.38 to B22.48 in 2020  B22.98 to B32.28 in 2021

Clearly your comment "Staggering #s, but the #s don't lie." in this case they do 

And you claim of saving over B 460k baht is a theoretical potential saving based on that E91 remains at the same price for the next year and you do 20,000 km per year and you kept the car for 8 years

Edited September 19, 2023 by vinny41
add

[KhunLA]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

 

 

Its Strange that you never mentioned in your original post to your ownership of your EV and present and & future savings at E91 prices today and yet you failed to mention that in the 2 years of ownership E91 prices ranged from potential B20.38 to B22.48 in 2020  B22.98 to B32.28 in 2021

Clearly your comment "Staggering #s, but the #s don't lie." in this case they do 

Staggering how irrelevant your reply is to my reply.

 

 

[vinny41]

Just now, KhunLA said:

Staggering how irrelevant your reply is to my reply.

 

 

Its Easy you posts are misleading and incorrect and you been caught with your pants down again 

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Its Easy you posts are misleading and incorrect and you been caught with your pants down again 

My post wasn't to you, and I wasn't referencing 2020 or 2021 prices, or even first, most of 10 months,  of 2022, since we got our EV 30 Oct 2022.  Nothing misleading, just your lack of reading comprehension.

 

Or simply an attempt to interject a false narrative.

 

Keep repeating it isn't going to help,  as your posts are irrelevant, to our purchase or anyone's future purchase.

Edited September 19, 2023 by KhunLA

[vinny41]

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

@Celsius If you put 20k kms on a year, we calculated we'll probably save over 460k baht, just on petrol cost, with our EV.

 

That's an accurate cost of MG ZS ICE version (we owned), vs our EV version, we own now.  Doesn't even include the oil changes (10k) & tune ups.

Your post is incorrect and misleading as you haven't stated that a potential saving of B460K is based on E91 remaining at B40.5  for the next 8 years and that you do 20Kms per year and keep the vehicle for 8 years

as you haven't stated any of the above qualifications your post is misleading and incorrect

If you post on a Public forum anyone has the right to reply if you want to send a msg to an individual member there is a pm facility on this forum

 

[Lacessit]

8 hours ago, In the jungle said:

That is a bit of a simplistic approach.  EV evangelists bang on about environmental considerations normally. 

What environmental considerations? Battery manufacture for EV's is much more polluting. Vehicle mass of an EV compared to the corresponding ICE does more damage to road surfaces. Unless the EV is refueled solely from renewable energy, they are w@^king themselves on that score too.

The public charging stations in Chiang Mai province get their electricity from Mae Moh power station, possibly the dirtiest generator on the planet.

[DavisH]

6 hours ago, vinny41 said:

 

 

Its Strange that you never mentioned in your original post to your ownership of your EV and present and & future savings at E91 prices today and yet you failed to mention that in the 2 years of ownership E91 prices ranged from potential B20.38 to B22.48 in 2020  B22.98 to B32.28 in 2021

Clearly your comment "Staggering #s, but the #s don't lie." in this case they do 

And you claim of saving over B 460k baht is a theoretical potential saving based on that E91 remains at the same price for the next year and you do 20,000 km per year and you kept the car for 8 years

Factor in the price of electricity (to charge ones car - most don't run on solar). Demand for electricity will increase it's unit price. I doubt the current grid could support hundreds of thousands of EV's charging at home daily. More demand = more coal burned to suppy the electricity. 

[JBChiangRai]

9 hours ago, Keep Right said:

I will never buy an EV. I very much like internal combustion engines.

 

 

9 hours ago, Screaming said:

I also enjoy internal combustion engines, especially large ones. What a thrill to drive and listen to. I missed out on importing a Corvette with a 427 engine before imports were banned in Thailand. Now I am limited to sedans with a V6. No sissy EVs for me.

I prefer EV's to avoid the fire in your picture which is between 10 and 130 times more likely with ICE.

 

9 hours ago, matchar said:

I could be wrong but I'm betting even after the subsidies end the prices will stay the same or fall due to increased competition.

 

Battery prices are coming down and EV prices are still trending downwards in China after the subsidies ended.

I think and hope you are right.

 

9 hours ago, Screaming said:

I also enjoy internal combustion engines, especially large ones. What a thrill to drive and listen to. I missed out on importing a Corvette with a 427 engine before imports were banned in Thailand. Now I am limited to sedans with a V6. No sissy EVs for me.

I have had a few large V8's, my first was a British car with a Chrysler 440" V8 with Holley 4 barrel carb (or was it 2 of) and Chrysler Torqueflyte 3 speed Auto. 0-60mph in about 7 or 8 seconds with 11 mpg and we thought that was fast.  I wonder if anyone here knows what British cars used this engine/transmission?

 

Rover SD1 with 3.5 V8, fantastic car with dubious build quality.

 

And from the age of 31 a series of British 6.75 litre V8's which were engineered to be quiet.

 

I much prefer an EV, Noise, Vibration & Harshness are not my thing and fuel is no longer tax deductible.

[JBChiangRai]

9 minutes ago, DavisH said:

Factor in the price of electricity (to charge ones car - most don't run on solar). Demand for electricity will increase it's unit price. I doubt the current grid could support hundreds of thousands of EV's charging at home daily. More demand = more coal burned to suppy the electricity. 

We have to trust the Thai Government to plan accordingly, they are attempting to go green.  Loxley in Bangkok have invested billions in solar farms subsidised by the government.

 

The charging infrastructure is fine today and will probably match the delivery rate of EV's.  I would like to see them open up for domestic solar feed-in without any paperwork, just a few rules and regulations people should be trusted to follow.

Edited September 20, 2023 by JBChiangRai

[Gweiloman]

16 hours ago, Celsius said:

Wife just test drove BYD Dolphin and was mildly impressed especially by 699k 1.8% price tag. She avoids buying Chinese cars but perhaps getting 8 years out of this car (warranty supposedly 8 years) is worth it even if it is completely unsellable after that. They also pay first year insurance premium.

 

Whatdoyathink?

Your wife avoids buying Chinese cars… how many cars has she bought in the past few years?

 

Maybe she should just stick to buying Volvos (oops sorry, that’s also a CH made car) or Teslas (oops sorry, CH made too). How about a Toyota BZ3X or whatever.. oh sorry, CH made too. Looks like your wife might have to go without a car if she wants to stick to her principles.

[Gweiloman]

10 hours ago, Screaming said:

In 1971 I attended two races in different parts of the country where the new Porsche 917K were racing. These Porsche 917K engines were rated at a peak of 1,500 horse power. Yes, they made allot of noise, but what a thrill it was. Noise is good!

Noise at a race track is fine. People go there willingly and also enjoy the noise, a privilege they are willing to pay for.

 

Out on public streets however, it’s only idiots that enjoy the noise that their vehicle makes. For everyone one else, it’s an annoyance and I guarantee there are no positive thoughts about the driver of said vehicle. Most people would actually love to see a solo crash of that vehicle.