No savings, huge debts: More and more Thai seniors struggling to survive

[kickstart]

6 hours ago, billd766 said:

Try living on 600 thb anywhere in Thailand without family support for a month then come back and tell us all if Thailand IS really that bad. In GBP that works out at 50p per day.

 

In the UK the 2023 pension is a maximum of 

 

https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/what-youll-get#:~:text=The full new State Pension,delay) taking your State Pension

 

The full new State Pension is £203.85 per week.

The only reasons you can get more than the full State Pension are if:

you have over a certain amount of Additional State Pension

you defer (delay) taking your State Pension

If you reached State Pension age before 6 April 2016, you’ll get a different amount under the basic State Pension rules.

 

That is around 8,562 thb per month compared to 600 thb in Thailand. There are also other support mechanisms that can be claimed.

 

Yes, Thailand really IS that bad.

Ture, but you like me started to pay into your pension when you started to work, though tax's I was 18, worked 35 years, can now claim full UK state pension.

My Thai wife has not worked in a tax paying job for 25 years, but she now gets the Thai state pension, you had not worked for 25 years in the UK how much pension would you get? (I know the SS will top it up).

More Thais should pay tax, I live in a rural area, in our Soi most people are farmers pay little or no tax, the 4-5 dairy farmers will pay about 5-10 000baht /year in tax, depends on how much milk they produce, how much tax dose a rice farmer pay ,wife's daughter and son- in- law, rice farmers do not pay any tax and had an income of 110 000 baht.

The more tax you pay the more you should get back, wife's granddaughter worked at 7-11 for a while and paid about 4% in tax, you do not get a lot in return for that. 

[mommysboy]

The days of generous pensions will be a thing of the past. The best thing the majority of people can hope for will be some kind of pension, and good health so they can work until they die.  Having property could be a double edged sword since those who do may be expected to self fund social care. Not looking good- I can understand why young people feel downcast.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, itsari said:

Many pensionists from the west would have problems to afford living in Thailand if taxes were raised to keep the Thai  elderly in a acceptable way .

Not if Thailand and their home country have a dual taxation agreement.

[billd766]

46 minutes ago, kickstart said:

Ture, but you like me started to pay into your pension when you started to work, though tax's I was 18, worked 35 years, can now claim full UK state pension.

My Thai wife has not worked in a tax paying job for 25 years, but she now gets the Thai state pension, you had not worked for 25 years in the UK how much pension would you get? (I know the SS will top it up).

More Thais should pay tax, I live in a rural area, in our Soi most people are farmers pay little or no tax, the 4-5 dairy farmers will pay about 5-10 000baht /year in tax, depends on how much milk they produce, how much tax dose a rice farmer pay ,wife's daughter and son- in- law, rice farmers do not pay any tax and had an income of 110 000 baht.

The more tax you pay the more you should get back, wife's granddaughter worked at 7-11 for a while and paid about 4% in tax, you do not get a lot in return for that. 

Actually I started to pay into my pension with my first job less than a month after I left school at age 15.

 

I will still be paying tax in the UK even though I have lived in Thailand since 2001 until the day I die.

 

My state pension was frozen in 2009 on the day I got it.

[ikke1959]

1 hour ago, itsari said:

Many pensionists from the west would have problems to afford living in Thailand if taxes were raised to keep the Thai  elderly in a acceptable way .

75% of the Thai people don't pay tax at all.. Maybe they should start with a decent system to register where everyone is really living instead of the blue familybook, and with everyone giving a taxform to fill in. I think in Thailand the Government has no idea who is living where and doing what. That is why corruption and bribes can't be controlled too.

[still kicking]

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Plenty of elderly in the UK would like to retire age 60, but our civilised country wants us to wait until 67. Is Thailand really that bad? 

How much pension do you get in Thailand? I get $ 1170 every fortnight (26900) baht, but I live in OZ now. 

[it is what it is]

4 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

75% of the Thai people don't pay tax at all.. Maybe they should start with a decent system to register where everyone is really living instead of the blue familybook, and with everyone giving a taxform to fill in. I think in Thailand the Government has no idea who is living where and doing what. That is why corruption and bribes can't be controlled too.

75% of people are wise and probably better off not paying tax. you can hardly blame thai people,  i would guess the tax they paid is unlikely to be spent on education, health or social security and much more likely to 'disappear'...

[it is what it is]

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Plenty of elderly in the UK would like to retire age 60, but our civilised country wants us to wait until 67. Is Thailand really that bad? 

 

the uk is extremely civilised, IMO anyone relying on the state pension is mad... pretty much all my friends managed to retire/semi-retire between 55 - 60, they either have excellent work pensions or private pension pots, all it takes is a little forward planning. when the state pension kick in it will be a little cream on the cake.

[itsari]

6 hours ago, it is what it is said:

 

the uk is extremely civilised, IMO anyone relying on the state pension is mad... pretty much all my friends managed to retire/semi-retire between 55 - 60, they either have excellent work pensions or private pension pots, all it takes is a little forward planning. when the state pension kick in it will be a little cream on the cake.

Perhaps it is time the UK means tested the cream cake eaters 

[itsari]

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

Not if Thailand and their home country have a dual taxation agreement.

If taxes begin to be applied for raising the welfare of the old people in Thailand your pension will not buy what it can manage today.

Nothing to do with dual taxation .

 

[itsari]

8 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

75% of the Thai people don't pay tax at all.. Maybe they should start with a decent system to register where everyone is really living instead of the blue familybook, and with everyone giving a taxform to fill in. I think in Thailand the Government has no idea who is living where and doing what. That is why corruption and bribes can't be controlled too.

75 percent do not pay income tax ? I would not like to guess , but i am sure you are correct . Government and large company employees pay income tax . After that i am not so sure and if all had to pay income tax , prices would raise exponentially . 

The old people in Thailand will remain with virtually no income for the forseeable future . 

[BritManToo]

9 hours ago, it is what it is said:

 

the uk is extremely civilised, IMO anyone relying on the state pension is mad... pretty much all my friends managed to retire/semi-retire between 55 - 60, they either have excellent work pensions or private pension pots, all it takes is a little forward planning. when the state pension kick in it will be a little cream on the cake.

Work pensions all gone now ..........

Let's face it, we lived in a western golden age of pensions and savings that never happened before, and will probably never happen again. How the Thais elderly live will be the future, at least they don't have heating bills to pay!

[Lacessit]

20 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Plenty of elderly in the UK would like to retire age 60, but our civilised country wants us to wait until 67. Is Thailand really that bad? 

Try living on 600 baht/month when you are 60. Going to 700 baht/month at 70, then a munificent 800 baht/month at age 80.

The only support elderly Thais get is from their family. That is waning as Western "values" creep in.

[Will B Good]

15 hours ago, itsari said:

Is charging more than 15 percent a year considered illegal in Thailand ?

No idea....I keep well out of it.

[whiteman]

No idea....I keep well out of it. Make sure you lock your doors and windows at night some people cannot handle the pressures of debt and only know one way out.

[itsari]

1 hour ago, Will B Good said:

No idea....I keep well out of it.

Could be considered being an accomplice since you are living with the illegal loan giver .

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, itsari said:

Could be considered being an accomplice since you are living with the illegal loan giver .

Nah.....no work permit.....so not allowed to help.

[itsari]

3 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Nah.....no work permit.....so not allowed to help.

OK Will B Good , if you cant be good be carefull 

[itsari]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Try living on 600 baht/month when you are 60. Going to 700 baht/month at 70, then a munificent 800 baht/month at age 80.

The only support elderly Thais get is from their family. That is waning as Western "values" creep in.

I agree with your comment , but would like to add that not all old people have family around them .

[Lacessit]

10 minutes ago, itsari said:

I agree with your comment , but would like to add that not all old people have family around them .

True. My massage lady ( 61 yo ) is estranged from her daughter. If she stops working, she has the assets of a house and car, but no income apart from 600 baht/month.

[jcmj]

And so many men wonder why their partners need to send money back home for their parents. Plus many grandparents are raising their grandchildren. Imagine trying to make it on 600 baht a month and hoping that you will make it to 90 to get 900 baht a month. It’s really a sad situation. They need to get some casinos in a tax them to support the elderly as well as the sex workers. Their tax should go to their families who are raising their children. Maybe someday. 

[mommysboy]

13 hours ago, it is what it is said:

 

the uk is extremely civilised, IMO anyone relying on the state pension is mad... pretty much all my friends managed to retire/semi-retire between 55 - 60, they either have excellent work pensions or private pension pots, all it takes is a little forward planning. when the state pension kick in it will be a little cream on the cake.

But you have a certain status in your society--- you don't know what it's like to be poor. The majority of people in the UK (let alone Thailand) struggle to keep their heads above water- how are they going to pay for a private pension? The people you describe as mad are in fact merely poor.

[Menken]

The tax structure in the United States and Thailand hugely and unfairly reward those at the very top.

 

Here in Thailand I just read the other day that they were once again mucking about with land tax breaks. Wealthy Thai Chinese families have for generations sat on land paying a little or no tax. It's positively criminal

 

It gives me pause to think where my wife would be without me trying to squirrel away assets for her. It's not as though she doesn't try to save and in fact is saving between 25 and 50% of her paycheck every month. This is still nowhere close to being enough.

 

I'm sure she will share whatever I can leave her with her brother and sister. There's no getting around that. They will have nothing.

 

Tax overhaul

Corruption

Wage hikes

 

Wages cannot be lifted because it's the key to it's tourism and exports. Ties are already paid fairly well considering their low productivity. If they bump wages just because this will crash the economy

[Adumbration]

I was at a Thai friend's house yesterday.  On the block next door that are building a retaining wall to back fill the block with dirt.  Builder 81 year old with two laborers in their 50s.  81 year old was doing most of the work and lugging most of the cinder blocks himself.

 

 

[BritManToo]

19 hours ago, Cake Monster said:

Money is being loaned out now to 30 + Year old people, for property purchase that has a 40 Year repayment term.

Not true, upper limit on end of mortgage loans is age 65.

[h90]

On 4/14/2023 at 11:11 AM, itsari said:

If there is going to be any improvement in the care of the old people in Thailand there has to be higher taxes imposed . 

Therefore there will be no change any time soon .

A nation is gauged on how the country cares for the old people .

Thailand is low in the list .

So your solution is stealing money from the young one to pay back the debts from the old one. A socialist nightmare

[Gaccha]

36 minutes ago, Menken said:

Wealthy Thai Chinese families have for generations sat on land paying a little or no tax. It's positively criminal

I can recall discussing the concept of inheritance tax with a taxi driver many years ago. Since back then there was no inheritance tax in Thailand and no discussion of it, there was a crashing noise as the scales dropped from his eyes.

 

Part of the reason why the Thai population is so placid, docile and pleasant is because the wealthy elite very carefully limit any discussions of welfare benefits and redistribution of wealth.

 

Buddhism, in contrast to the early revolutionary creed of Christianity, also encourages docility and acceptance of the social structure. Just accept your lot in life. Hope that you are reincarnated as a robber baron as a reward for your merit in this life.

[h90]

42 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

But you have a certain status in your society--- you don't know what it's like to be poor. The majority of people in the UK (let alone Thailand) struggle to keep their heads above water- how are they going to pay for a private pension? The people you describe as mad are in fact merely poor.

Can't be bad in Thailand. We tried many month to find a cleaning woman for the office. Someone that really works (not someone who chat with the other staff and plays on the mobile phone). We did not care if the person is 16 or 80. At the end we took the salary and split it with all the staff and told them they must clean themself. Everyone was OK with it, but it is not that there are hungry people struggling.....People are picky on what they want to do.....

[itsari]

12 minutes ago, h90 said:

So your solution is stealing money from the young one to pay back the debts from the old one. A socialist nightmare

Thats the way most government pension schemes work which is called a pay as you go system .

It can become a nightmare when you dont have enough young people to pay in . Or that the pensioners live too long or retire to early .

Ask President  Macron and he will explain for you .

 

 

[spidermike007]

If they diverted even half of the funds siphoned off by the army, with so little in return, all seniors would be quite comfortable. 

 

This is simply demonstrative of the backwards slide of the nation. The non affluent seniors are hit the worst.