fine for TM30 3 days late (weekend)?

[stephen tracy]

Hi all, I will fly to Udon tomorrow to do a visa run via Nong  Khai. My landlord will not register TM30 online when I get back later Friday evening so I will have to go do it in person on Monday. Will I still pay a fine, given that the weekend gets in the way? 

[RandolphGB]

If any fine is due, the landlord must pay it. Registering a TM30 is the building owner's responsibility. 

[Pattaya57]

I usually book my flights to arrive on a Friday so that I can do the TM30 on the Monday (first opportunity to go to immigration). I've never had a problem (Jomtien) as how can you report to immigration when they're not open?

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Pattaya57

[Red Phoenix]

Would your Visa-run result in you entering Thailand on a new Visa (or VisaExempt)? 

In that case, your official address for Immigration purposes needs to be renewed. 

But it is not YOU but the owner of the premises where you are staying (in your case your landlord) that is required according to Thai law to notify the local Imm Office within 24 hours  that a foreigner is staying at the premises, and when failing to do so it is your landlord that might be fined by Immigration for not having done it.

And it is only when you go to local Immmigration for a service (e.g. appliation for an extension of stay) that local Immigration would want to see a copy of the TM-30 notification done by your landlord, or alternatively you bringing a copy of the rental-contact and a signed front/back copy of the Thai ID-card of the owner.  And you will not be fined when doing the above at a time convenient for you. 

NOTE: Why don't you simply register your address on the IO TM-30 website.  That would allow you to issue your own TM-30 (or of any foreign staying at your place) after your return, without having to bother the landlord with it or needing to go to local Imm Office to notify them of your return.

I did PM you a comprehensive Guideline document on how to do that. 

[bigt3116]

More duff info, it can be the building "possessor" that is required to notify, not always the landlord, can be the rentee too.

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by bigt3116

[bigt3116]

"NOTIFICATION FORM FOR HOUSE-MASTER, OWNER OR POSSESSOR OF RESIDENCE OR HOTEL MANAGER WHERE ALIEN HAS STAYED."

 

This is the title of the form.

 

Makes it clear who can file a TM30

[foreverlomsak]

21 minutes ago, RandolphGB said:

If any fine is due, the landlord must pay it. Registering a TM30 is the building owner's responsibility. 

True, that it's the owners responsibility, however he does not interface with Immigration (and they will not go out of their way to try and find him), it basically only comes to light when the foreigner wants something from Immigration and he has to pay the fine or not get what he wants.

[FriendlyFarang]

35 minutes ago, RandolphGB said:

If any fine is due, the landlord must pay it. Registering a TM30 is the building owner's responsibility. 

 

It's also OP's responsibility as possessor.

 

1 hour ago, stephen tracy said:

Hi all, I will fly to Udon tomorrow to do a visa run via Nong  Khai. My landlord will not register TM30 online when I get back later Friday evening so I will have to go do it in person on Monday. Will I still pay a fine, given that the weekend gets in the way? 

Just write monday as arrival date on the TM30 then you certainly don't have to pay a fine.

Nobody will ask anyway, but if somebody asks just say you stayed with a friend in Nong Khai in the last few days, nobody will try to confirm this.

[stephen tracy]

Thanks to all for these responses! Great, I will just go Monday and say my new tenancy began the previous day. I don't think there's any visa or immigration query that cant be answered on AN!

[Pattaya57]

8 minutes ago, stephen tracy said:

Thanks to all for these responses! Great, I will just go Monday and say my new tenancy began the previous day. I don't think there's any visa or immigration query that cant be answered on AN!

Why lie to Immigration? As I said above if you arrive back Friday evening then the first opportunity to go to Immigration is Monday morning which should be no problem

 

(plus theyll see your entry stamp was Friday and wouldn't your existing lease have different dates so story won't match?)

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Pattaya57

[patman30]

do you already have TM30 slip in PP?
has your address changed?
if only doing a visa run
i thought there was now no need to re-register yourself at your primary address here once you had registered it.

[Pattaya57]

Just now, patman30 said:

do you already have TM30 slip in PP?
has your address changed?
if only doing a visa run
i thought there was now no need to re-register yourself at your primary address here once you had registered it.

Only if have same visa (so have multi-entry visa or re-entry permit). Getting new visa exempt requires new TM30

[stephen tracy]

5 hours ago, patman30 said:

do you already have TM30 slip in PP?
has your address changed?
if only doing a visa run
i thought there was now no need to re-register yourself at your primary address here once you had registered it.

From what I understand, if you leave the country and enter another visa exempt, you have to do it. I have all the copies/docs from last time I did it, I just need to get the landlord to update the tenancy contract to extend from when I come back. 

[patman30]

22 minutes ago, stephen tracy said:

I will just go Monday and say my new tenancy began the previous day

as someone else said, why lie?
you seem to be panicking for no reason.
if it worries you so much, just stay in a decent hotel for first night back
no lies, and hotel will do TM30 report
i/my wife never had any fine when first doing mine, and i had been here for months.

[patman30]

2 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

Only if have same visa (so have multi-entry visa or re-entry permit). Getting new visa exempt requires new TM30

do you have a source for this?
just want to confirm for myself as i was under impression, primary residence is now a one time thing

[patman30]

11 minutes ago, stephen tracy said:

From what I understand, if you leave the country and enter another visa exempt, you have to do it. I have all the copies/docs from last time I did it, I just need to get the landlord to update the tenancy contract to extend from when I come back. 

so you are doing a border run not a "visa" run
as you are not getting a visa
correct?

and do you have any other reason to go to immigration now or in future?
if not, i wouldn't even care about it myself, as not my responsibility
and it will only be needed if you want extensions or something from immigration.

Edited May 4, 2023 by patman30

[Red Phoenix]

12 minutes ago, patman30 said:

do you have a source for this?
just want to confirm for myself as i was under impression, primary residence is now a one time thing

It's addressed in #2.2 of the attached TM-30 reporting regulation which became effective 30 June 2020.

As long as you stay on an unbroken chain of a Permit to stay, you do not need to inform Immigration that you returned to your 'official address for immigration purposes'.  So no need to do that after travelling domestically or even internationally (when using a Re-Entry Permit).

TM30 reporting regulation _ effective dd 30-06-2020.pdf

[Sandboxer]

2 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

'official address for immigration purposes'.

This is what confuses me/

 

What defines that official address? For example, I live (Elite visa) in one of my dad's (falang) condos whenever I'm here, so he does a TM30 for me when I arrive from overseas, but go on many side trips where various hotels will do a TM30 on me as well. But then I always return to my dad's condo. 

 

So does he not have to do it for me again and again? If not, how does immi "know" that this condo is my "regular" residence (apart from common sense as his last name is the same as mine on the form).

[CRUNCHER]

It is worth mentioning the problems given to landlords.

I always register the tenant when he first moves in.  After that he is under no obligation to report his movements to me, so how can I be liable.

The tenant is also not obliged to tell me of any change of his visa which might affect reporting requirements.

Further, what happens if I am not in Thailand?

The tenant is the possessor - full stop.

I have tried the website, but all I get back is data not correct without telling me what data is wrong. I believe the app is better, but I cannot get on my iPhone despite the app store being registered in Thailand secured with a Thai credit card.

I understand the need for immigration to location of foreigners in the country. However, the application of a bit of brain power could achieve this with more user friendly procedures.

Edited May 4, 2023 by CRUNCHER

[stephen tracy]

6 hours ago, patman30 said:

so you are doing a border run not a "visa" run
as you are not getting a visa
correct?

and do you have any other reason to go to immigration now or in future?
if not, i wouldn't even care about it myself, as not my responsibility
and it will only be needed if you want extensions or something from immigration.

Yep

[Red Phoenix]

5 minutes ago, Sandboxer said:

This is what confuses me/

 

What defines that official address? For example, I live (Elite visa) in one of my dad's (falang) condos whenever I'm here, so he does a TM30 for me when I arrive from overseas, but go on many side trips where various hotels will do a TM30 on me as well. But then I always return to my dad's condo. 

 

So does he not have to do it for me again and again? If not, how does immi "know" that this condo is my "regular" residence (apart from common sense as his last name is the same as mine on the form).

Every Thai Hotel/Guesthouse is required by Thai law to fill in a TM-30 to notify local Immigration that a foreigner is staying at their premises.  One of the fields that needs to be filled in on that TM-30 form is your current type of Visa.  If they fill in Non Imm O, the IO TM-30 system will not overwrite the official address where you are residing in your province.  But if the Hotel/Guesthouse makes a mistake and fills in Tourist Visa or VisaExempt, the IO TM-30 system will overwrite your official address with the Hotel one as that has now become your 'last known address in Thailand'. 

The result of such mistake is annoying, because you would then not be able to do your 90-day report on-line anymore as the Hotel address does not match with the original TM-30 address, that you want to confirm with the online 90-day report. 

Note: When your father has registered the address where you are staying on the IO TM-30 website, it will only take him 2 minutes to issue a new TM-30 that you returned at his premises, thereby correcting the Hotel/Guesthouse mistake.

To check whether the Hotel/Guesthouse did the TM-30 notification correct ask them for a copy of that notification, and then you will know whether your father would need to correct it when you are once again at his place in case they messed up.

[Klonko]

49 minutes ago, CRUNCHER said:

... I believe the app is better, but I cannot get on my iPhone despite the app store being registered in Thailand secured with a Thai credit card. ...

For downloading the Section 38 app from the app store you must switch to your Thai apple ID in settings. Worked for me on iPhone and iPad. Registration confirmation stalled because the address fields did not match the structure of my address and the immigration officer could not find my data in the sytem. After a phone call (thanks to the advice of Red Phoenix and the efforts of my stepdaughter) I received user id and password within 5 minutes).

[DrJack54]

@stephen tracy what type of visa do you have?

 

What reason do you have to attend immigration? 

 

If you have a multi entry visa you would not need to make a TM30.

 

If you obtained a visa exempt entry in Nong Khai the only reason you would need to do a TM30 is if planning to attend immigration for extension.

 

If that's the case just do TM30 prior to attending immigration. 

No urgency.

[Almer]

1 hour ago, Sandboxer said:

This is what confuses me/

 

What defines that official address? For example, I live (Elite visa) in one of my dad's (falang) condos whenever I'm here, so he does a TM30 for me when I arrive from overseas, but go on many side trips where various hotels will do a TM30 on me as well. But then I always return to my dad's condo. 

 

So does he not have to do it for me again and again? If not, how does immi "know" that this condo is my "regular" residence (apart from common sense as his last name is the same as mine on the form).

 

[Almer]

Just now, Almer said:

 

It's the " Common" sense thing that brings it all tumbling down. 

[Pattaya57]

2 hours ago, patman30 said:

do you have a source for this?
just want to confirm for myself as i was under impression, primary residence is now a one time thing

Revised TM30 rules was all over the press in June 2020. The following extract from link summarizes it pretty well

 

In the event that a foreign national travels and stays in another place on an occasional basis, and then returns to stay at the same premises within the period of stay specified in the T.M.30, then a new T.M.30 will need not be submitted each time they arrive. The new rules are applicable to all foreign nationals who stay in Thailand on any type of visa, including holders of multiple-entry visas and re-entry permits which enable the holders to leave and return to Thailand within their visa validity period.

 

https://www.tilleke.com/insights/thailand-relax-rules-tm30-immigration-requirements/

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Pattaya57

[Thailand]

2 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

It's addressed in #2.2 of the attached TM-30 reporting regulation which became effective 30 June 2020.

As long as you stay on an unbroken chain of a Permit to stay, you do not need to inform Immigration that you returned to your 'official address for immigration purposes'.  So no need to do that after travelling domestically or even internationally (when using a Re-Entry Permit).

TM30 reporting regulation _ effective dd 30-06-2020.pdf 1.2 MB · 4 downloads

If travelling domestically out of province and your accommodation files a TM30 during your stay some IO require a refilling of TM30- Chiang Mai for instance.

[Red Phoenix]

14 minutes ago, Thailand said:

If travelling domestically out of province and your accommodation files a TM30 during your stay some IO require a refilling of TM30- Chiang Mai for instance.

Yes, several reports of people confirming that after a domestic trip that Chiang Mai Immigration required them to file a new TM-30 of them having returned to their Chiang Mai address. 

So CM is not following the official TM-30 regulations that clearly stipulate that this is not necessary. 

And they must have much time on their hands to handle all those unnecessary 'return to home-address TM-30s'. 

Luckily the large majority of Thai Imm Offices do not follow that annoying and nonsensical CM approach.

[Thailand]

3 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Yes, several reports of people confirming that after a domestic trip that Chiang Mai Immigration required them to file a new TM-30 of them having returned to their Chiang Mai address. 

So CM is not following the official TM-30 regulations that clearly stipulate that this is not necessary. 

And they must have much time on their hands to handle all those unnecessary 'return to home-address TM-30s'. 

Luckily the large majority of Thai Imm Offices do not follow that annoying and nonsensical CM approach.

Separate office for the filing of TM30. Not done in the main building.

[Red Phoenix]

3 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Separate office for the filing of TM30. Not done in the main building.

Ah, that explains it.  They need to appear 'busy'...