Mixed responses to calls for ending compulsory military service in Thailand

[herfiehandbag]

13 minutes ago, transam said:

I was told 3,000bht per month, wiv cr_p grub....

Yes, that sounds about par for the course with what my stepson got.

 

Sleeping provision a thin mat on the floor. Washing facilities a cement trough under a tin roofed lean to, doubling up as laundry facilities. 

 

Pay was erratic, they usually got the arrears when going on leave, but there were many stoppages. Things they needed, soap, toothpaste, washing powder, boot polish and so on were all obtained through the NCOs, who were paid off ( at a substantial profit) at pay parade. Corruption of course is everywhere - my boy missed the bus from

Chiang Rai to Chiang Mai going back after a long weekends leave. He was going to be late. I gave him B1000, he gave it to his corporal, the problem went away.

 

Those in his platoon who had parents who could afford it, simply didn't turn up for weeks on end. Parents paid and the platoon NCOs pocketed their pay.

 

My lad got a cushy number, he could use a computer so was made Company Clerk.

 

He finished his basic training dripping with parachute wings, ranger badges, red berets and even a couple of medals. By the end of his stint he had more military bling than I had after 30 years in the British Army, even though, like the Olympic flame he never went out!

 

it was a complete waste of time - skive to survive!

Edited May 11, 2023 by herfiehandbag

[herfiehandbag]

9 hours ago, steven100 said:

If other countries had mandatory conscription maybe there would be less young people taking up drugs and criminal activity.   

No, the young people taking up drugs and criminal activity would simply be fitter, and perhaps better organised.

[steven100]

4 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

No, the young people taking up drugs and criminal activity would simply be fitter, and perhaps better organised.

disagree .... they learn responsibility and to stay away from drugs ...

[Pink Mist]

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[DJ54]

The military should afford opportunities for people to grow and learn prepare them for their future

[steven100]

34 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Yes, that sounds about par for the course with what my stepson got.

 

Sleeping provision a thin mat on the floor. Washing facilities a cement trough under a tin roofed lean to, doubling up as laundry facilities. 

 

Pay was erratic, they usually got the arrears when going on leave, but there were many stoppages. Things they needed, soap, toothpaste, washing powder, boot polish and so on were all obtained through the NCOs, who were paid off ( at a substantial profit) at pay parade. Corruption of course is everywhere - my boy missed the bus from

Chiang Rai to Chiang Mai going back after a long weekends leave. He was going to be late. I gave him B1000, he gave it to his corporal, the problem went away.

 

Those in his platoon who had parents who could afford it, simply didn't turn up for weeks on end. Parents paid and the platoon NCOs pocketed their pay.

 

My lad got a cushy number, he could use a computer so was made Company Clerk.

 

He finished his basic training dripping with parachute wings, ranger badges, red berets and even a couple of medals. By the end of his stint he had more military bling than I had after 30 years in the British Army, even though, like the Olympic flame he never went out!

 

it was a complete waste of time - skive to survive!

yes ....   the corruption is rife ....   very sad for the young who want to join and sad for the country.

[BangkokReady]

9 hours ago, steven100 said:

no way ......  for gods sake don't even consider it.   It teaches the young about discipline, leadership, empowerment, skills and fitness.  It hopefully keeps them occupied for a few months or years instead of getting in crime and drugs.  

If other countries had mandatory conscription maybe there would be less young people taking up drugs and criminal activity.   

The behaviour of many Thais who regularly make the news would suggest this is untrue.

 

Some Thais talk about military conscription like some sort of sexual or physical abuse that they suffered which left them permanently traumatised.

[Enoon]

On 5/11/2023 at 10:56 AM, steven100 said:

no way ......  for gods sake don't even consider it.   It teaches the young about discipline, leadership, empowerment, skills and fitness.  It hopefully keeps them occupied for a few months or years instead of getting in crime and drugs.  

If other countries had mandatory conscription maybe there would be less young people taking up drugs and criminal activity.   

You mean those countries might then be as free of drug problems and criminal activity as Thailand is?

 

Yeah......sure.........that would be a great leap forward for them.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by metisdead
Trolling image removed.

[Enoon]

 

Bright side of National Service is that it is a great way of spreading seditious ideas (by committed, covert activists who have been drafted in) among a broad cross section of youth, AND the draftees get weapons training for when the time comes to put those seditious ideas into practice.

 

Revolution and insurrection also more likely to get support from sections of citizen armies than from professional ones.

 

This space reserved for image of your favourite revolutionary fighting group:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Enoon

[mark131v]

14 hours ago, steven100 said:

no way ......  for gods sake don't even consider it.   It teaches the young about discipline, leadership, empowerment, skills and fitness.  It hopefully keeps them occupied for a few months or years instead of getting in crime and drugs.  

If other countries had mandatory conscription maybe there would be less young people taking up drugs and criminal activity.   

All conscription does in this day and age is water down a forces quality, conscription is a thing of the past in most professional forces and I would argue that Thailand's armed forces have <deleted> all to offer anybody other than lining the officers own nests, actually much more an armed farce than a force in any real sense...

[Srikcir]

10 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

The expenses associated with conscripted soldiers are minimal.

About same as daily minimum wage.

Put that into education whose funding has been falling for years or the national healthcare system that is underfunded. Yet the military appears to get 5% annual budget increases.

[Deserted]

I didn't know that was still happening.

[daveAustin]

19 hours ago, bogs smith said:

Why do those who dont want to do the draft just refuse to go?

What will happen to someone if they just outright refused to draw a ball?

 

after all, you cant force a human to do something if they really dont want to.

 

Might be an interesting tactic to try for those pacifists among us. they may send you to jail for a few months but its still arguably better than wasting 2 years of your youth with a bunch of machine gun toting toy soldiers from nakhon nowhere!

Bad idea. If they get called up and skip it, or go awol, it’ll eventually catch up with them. Dunno about gaol and fines, but there can be issues in getting a job, buying land etc. 

[h90]

15 hours ago, Purdey said:

As a pacifist, compulsory military training is not always appropriate. You're basically teaching people how to kill - oops, sorry, I meant defend the country. Many examples of people who are ex-military or ex-cops shooting others. I don't mean they are all bad, but it requires thinking about.

A smaller but professional army would demand better salaries and skill training but defend the nation better than conscripts.

A smaller professional army is much easier sent to some foreign intervention...will be much easier some politicians mercenary. I would go the other way and make it mostly decentralize militias that are in peace time more like some volunteer firefighter (which are common in many countries). Thaksin tried already to send Thai Army to Afghanistan...luckily he got a lot resistance. Local militia who know their area, there people, look without uniform like civilians can be very efficient and very motivated.  

[h90]

11 hours ago, steven100 said:

disagree .... they learn responsibility and to stay away from drugs ...

From my experience being drafted in Europe....You get in contact with narcotics and you smoke and drink like never before + get the worst food you can imagine

[bigt3116]

20 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

It teaches them how to be domestic servants for Generals wives or gets them beaten to death during hazing. Thailand does not need a standing military force of 500,000 and it certainly doesn’t need over 1,000 Generals. Cut the numbers, cut the budget and spend the money on something that benefits society. 

Army = 245,000

Navy = 69,850

Air force = 47,000

Total 361,850

 

So you are correct, they don't need 500k and they don't have 500k armed forces.

 

As for generals, yeh, maybe 1700 flag officers is a little OTT.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

2 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

Army = 245,000

Navy = 69,850

Air force = 47,000

Total 361,850

 

So you are correct, they don't need 500k and they don't have 500k armed forces.

 

As for generals, yeh, maybe 1700 flag officers is a little OTT.

 

 

[transam]

8 hours ago, mark131v said:

All conscription does in this day and age is water down a forces quality, conscription is a thing of the past in most professional forces and I would argue that Thailand's armed forces have <deleted> all to offer anybody other than lining the officers own nests, actually much more an armed farce than a force in any real sense...

All Thai conscription is, is an army of gophers, they do the labouring, so real soldiers can do their thing.

A friend's step-son just did his gopher bit, he enjoyed the life and enrolled to be a real soldier, he was rejected, though I wasn't surprised.....

[bigt3116]

30 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

 

"A standing army is a permanent, often professional, army. It is composed of full-time soldiers who may be either career soldiers or conscripts." Reserves are not permanent, nor full time.    ????

[Will B Good]

On 5/11/2023 at 4:30 AM, webfact said:

the army has conducted a study into voluntary military systems, which have already been implemented in some regions. However, the expenses associated with training soldiers in such a system are higher compared to conscription

How can the costs be higher?

 

[Will B Good]

On 5/11/2023 at 4:30 AM, webfact said:

The academic explained that the army has not completely considered transitioning from conscription to a voluntary system, as some voluntary candidates might fail to meet the necessary criteria.

Whereas selecting them through pot luck, picking a ball out of bag, ensures you have the right candidate?

 

Where do they get these idiots?

[MrMojoRisin]

41 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

"A standing army is a permanent, often professional, army. It is composed of full-time soldiers who may be either career soldiers or conscripts." Reserves are not permanent, nor full time.    ????

Semantics

[Purdey]

3 hours ago, h90 said:

A smaller professional army is much easier sent to some foreign intervention...will be much easier some politicians mercenary. I would go the other way and make it mostly decentralize militias that are in peace time more like some volunteer firefighter (which are common in many countries). Thaksin tried already to send Thai Army to Afghanistan...luckily he got a lot resistance. Local militia who know their area, there people, look without uniform like civilians can be very efficient and very motivated.  

Thanks for pointing this out, but I believe a decentralized militia are only helpful for local disturbances rather than international conflict. Defending village by village is not the same as a concerted defense at the enemy entry point.

Regarding Thaksin, sending the Thai army overseas to assist allies is more of a political move rather than military strategy.

Yes, local militia defending their homes/villages/towns sounds good, but the fact that not enough people volunteer even today implies the militia will find it difficult to meet appropriate numbers. The Village Scouts, which are a type of militia, have a poor reputation to date.

I would not compare with firefighters, who are saving lives, not ending them (as soldiers are supposed to do). 

Plus, of course, this is a Buddhist country and a large military seems to conflict with its religious teachings.

[h90]

2 minutes ago, Purdey said:

Thanks for pointing this out, but I believe a decentralized militia are only helpful for local disturbances rather than international conflict. Defending village by village is not the same as a concerted defense at the enemy entry point.

Regarding Thaksin, sending the Thai army overseas to assist allies is more of a political move rather than military strategy.

Yes, local militia defending their homes/villages/towns sounds good, but the fact that not enough people volunteer even today implies the militia will find it difficult to meet appropriate numbers. The Village Scouts, which are a type of militia, have a poor reputation to date.

I would not compare with firefighters, who are saving lives, not ending them (as soldiers are supposed to do). 

Plus, of course, this is a Buddhist country and a large military seems to conflict with its religious teachings.

Yes these militias could not stop any invader. But they could harass them later, when you don't know who has a gun and may shoot an enemy soldier at night while on the day he/she looks like a regular farmer. And having groups in the forest who do small scale attacks or blow up things and disappear again.....
Numbers: I am not sure if you offer for 16-18 year old that they are allowed to shoot big weapons on weekend and afterwards have a beer.....And if you are good and reliable you can keep your rifle in your home. And if you are really good you get a free training on the real big things....I guess that would attract a lot of males even some females.
Well Buddhists.....They follow their religion as good as the Christians follow their 10 Commandments....

[h90]

Btw. I have seen the Thai army twice at floods and it was impressive how good they helped everyone and impressive how well they are equipped...that must have cost a fortune

[The Fugitive]

9 minutes ago, h90 said:

Yes these militias could not stop any invader. But they could harass them later, when you don't know who has a gun and may shoot an enemy soldier at night while on the day he/she looks like a regular farmer. And having groups in the forest who do small scale attacks or blow up things and disappear again.....
Numbers: I am not sure if you offer for 16-18 year old that they are allowed to shoot big weapons on weekend and afterwards have a beer.....And if you are good and reliable you can keep your rifle in your home. And if you are really good you get a free training on the real big things....I guess that would attract a lot of males even some females.
Well Buddhists.....They follow their religion as good as the Christians follow their 10 Commandments....

Definitely right to make it a home based, privilege, fun and adventure thing. Living in a barracks was what my nephew didn't like about his National Service. If he could have gone home at the end of the day same as a normal employee it would have made all the difference to him. 

[The Fugitive]

14 minutes ago, h90 said:

Btw. I have seen the Thai army twice at floods and it was impressive how good they helped everyone and impressive how well they are equipped...that must have cost a fortune

Here is the Royal Thai Army delivering rice to my mother-in-law prior to flooding.

[h90]

20 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

Definitely right to make it a home based, privilege, fun and adventure thing. Living in a barracks was what my nephew didn't like about his National Service. If he could have gone home at the end of the day same as a normal employee it would have made all the difference to him. 

And if it would be a place to hang out on weekends...instead of racing motorbikes we go with the painball into the forest and try to conquer the big tree from the neighbor village militia....I spent most of my time at military with the ballet for men....(that drills....)

[h90]

17 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

Here is the Royal Thai Army delivering rice to my mother-in-law prior to flooding.

They brought me in Surat Thani to the Airport

[torturedsole]

As an aside, and not wishing to start separate topic, my wife informed me today that her aunt (not the boy's mother) asked her to countersign a military guarantor document on behalf of her cousin who's soon to join the Thai army, although not sure whether conscripted or voluntary, but she declined to sign because a) she's no idea what she's guaranteeing; and b) she spends most of her time in the UK as a British citizen. 

 

I'm glad my wife had her wits about her today. The boy's mother is dead but his father is still alive and feel like my wife's aunt tried to bully her into being a guarantor. We're not angry, but we're not stupid.

 

Anyone heard of this guarantee and what it entails? Surely, there's some form of financial guarantee involved, otherwise it would be pointless.