Nigel Farage: ‘Brexit has failed’

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

Yet again. No elaboration. Nothing to support the statement.

 

Then you shouldn't have any trouble referring to the post(s). No time like the present.

 

Done it far too often. I suggest that you give it a go.

 

Your counselling is about as good as your reasoning.

 

You going to tire of trolling any time soon?

No trolling. Just not wearing blinkers. Take yours off. 

[JonnyF]

10 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And with good reason.

 

Farage does indeed ‘have some pull’.

 

He gained the trust of millions of people who voted for Brexit, I seem to recall comments on this forum calling for him to be knighted or elevated to the Lords.

 

So when Farage says ‘Brexit has failed’ and he did say ‘Brexit has failed’, millions of people who voted Brexit hear him.

I’m guess quite a few were thinking the same thing themselves.

 

‘Brexit has failed’ is certainly being widely and openly discussed.

He's basically saying it's not as hard line as he wanted it to be.

 

I can sympathize with the opinion, I'd have liked a harder Brexit as well but for you to take his comments completely out of context to mean "Britain is failing after Brexit" is disingenuous in the extreme, but entirely consistent with your MO.

 

Given worldwide economic conditions, Britain has done remarkably well since leaving. Germany for example, the powerhouse economy of the EU has just slipped into recession. Imagine that, Germany, still in the EU, the world's biggest common market with all that trade right on it's doorstep has slipped into recession. I guess being in the EU isn't all it's cracked up to be huh. I wonder if Germans voted to be poorer? 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/25/germany-economy-falls-into-recession-high-prices-take-toll

 

Tough times ahead for the failing, corrupt EU. 

[candide]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

He's basically saying it's not as hard line as he wanted it to be.

 

I can sympathize with the opinion, I'd have liked a harder Brexit as well but for you to take his comments completely out of context to mean "Britain is failing after Brexit" is disingenuous in the extreme, but entirely consistent with your MO.

 

Given worldwide economic conditions, Britain has done remarkably well since leaving. Germany for example, the powerhouse economy of the EU has just slipped into recession. Imagine that, Germany, still in the EU, the world's biggest common market with all that trade right on it's doorstep has slipped into recession. I guess being in the EU isn't all it's cracked up to be huh. I wonder if Germans voted to be poorer? 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/25/germany-economy-falls-into-recession-high-prices-take-toll

 

Tough times ahead for the failing, corrupt EU. 

Your assessment is biased because you only make a comparison with the worst case.

 

According to the same IMF you now seem to trust, UK 2023 growth forecast  is below all other G7 countries except Germany. And the "failing" EU is also doing better than UK (Eurozone 0.8% growth forecast).

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, candide said:

Your assessment is biased because you only make a comparison with the worst case.

 

According to the same IMF you now seem to trust, UK 2023 growth forecast  is below all other G7 countries except Germany. And the "failing" EU is also doing better than UK (Eurozone 0.8% growth forecast).

Forecast, forecast and forecast.

 

In all good Chomper tradition, let's keep to facts. 

 

What countries are currently in recession and which aren't?

[Chomper Higgot]

19 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Forecast, forecast and forecast.

 

In all good Chomper tradition, let's keep to facts. 

 

What countries are currently in recession and which aren't?

Brexit was predicated on something similar to forecasts ‘empty promises’.

 

Not a ‘sunlit upland’ in sight.

 

Although some here say wait another 30 or 50 years.

 

Farage clearly thinks Brexit has failed, he’s blaming the Tories.

 

I wonder who all those people who changed their normal vote to Tory are going to blame?

I’m very much looking forward to the next General Election.

 

 

[candide]

35 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Forecast, forecast and forecast.

 

In all good Chomper tradition, let's keep to facts. 

 

What countries are currently in recession and which aren't?

Ok. However, you where all cheering about the IMF forecasting 0.4% GDP growth for UK in 2023. So if the IMF forecast is moot for other countries, it's also moot for UK, right? 

 

In addition, if we cannot talk about future growth, we can still talk about past growth. The latest Q1 figures have been released not only for Germany, but also for UK. So on 12 May, the ONS claimed that:

"The level of quarterly GDP in Quarter 1 2023 is now 0.5% below its pre-coronavirus (COVID-19) level (Quarter 4 2019)."

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/gdpfirstquarterlyestimateuk/januarytomarch2023

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by candide

[youreavinalaff]

8 minutes ago, candide said:

Ok. However, you where all cheering about the IMF forecasting 0.4% GDP growth for UK in 2023. So if the IMF forecast is moot for other countries, it's also moot for UK, right? 

 

In addition, if we cannot talk about future growth, we can still talk about past growth. The latest Q1 figures have been released not only for Germany, but also for UK. So on 12 May, the ONS claimed that:

"The level of quarterly GDP in Quarter 1 2023 is now 0.5% below its pre-coronavirus (COVID-19) level (Quarter 4 2019)."

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/gdpfirstquarterlyestimateuk/januarytomarch2023

 

With possible revisions to come. Remember that bit?

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

With possible revisions to come. Remember that bit?

Indeed revision is likely.

 

The IMF are very likely to revise their latest forecasts downwards in the light of disappointing news of ‘sticky inflation’, UK guilt prices, increasing interest rates with pressure on higher interest rates increasing:

 

https://www.ft.com/content/abc452d4-a06c-4140-888a-cd1454c311c5

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-inflation-rate-falls-87-april-ons-2023-05-24/

[Jeff the Chef]

You can all faff about with Brexit till the cows come home, nothing will ever convince me it was a good idea to leave the EEC for the working man of the UK.

I've held that view since it all began, the good thing for me was I was at the end of my working life and after 50 years of graft was lucky enough to get out of it while the going was good.

I'm sure the usual subjects are all convinced that the sunny uplands are just around the corner in 10/20/50 years, I hope you're right for the sake of the old country but I think the arguments for and against will drag on forever, sadly.

[Pink Mist]

A reported Baiting troll post has been removed 

[n00dle]

On 5/17/2023 at 2:53 PM, Drumbuie said:

What was there to implement? They had no plan.  They spent the years between the referendum and Brexit running round like headless chickens, not bothering to gen up on how much the UK depended on the EU for both exports and imports of food, to mention just one vital commodity. Nor on how much documentation would be required by the EU for imports and exports once we ceased to be a member.

this pretty much sums it up. 

[youreavinalaff]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Indeed revision is likely.

 

The IMF are very likely to revise their latest forecasts downwards in the light of disappointing news of ‘sticky inflation’, UK guilt prices, increasing interest rates with pressure on higher interest rates increasing:

 

https://www.ft.com/content/abc452d4-a06c-4140-888a-cd1454c311c5

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-inflation-rate-falls-87-april-ons-2023-05-24/

Of course they are. Fits in with your opinions so it must happen.

 

Strange that the most recent forecasts were followed by more positive Facts.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, youreavinalaff said:

Of course they are. Fits in with your opinions so it must happen.

 

Strange that the most recent forecasts were followed by more positive Facts.

I didn’t say it must happen.

 

Inflation is higher than expectations, there is UK Guilt interest rates are up, there is pressure to increase base interest rates.

 

All widely reported in the news, refer links I provided above.

 

[candide]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

With possible revisions to come. Remember that bit?

Exactly. It's only based on the most reliable data at this point of time, and may be revised later.

BTW  same as the estimate of negative growth in Q1 for Germany.

Edited May 26, 2023 by candide

[youreavinalaff]

24 minutes ago, candide said:

Exactly. It's only based on the most reliable data at this point of time, and may be revised later.

BTW  same as the estimate of negative growth in Q1 for Germany.

Germany is in recession. Fact, not estimate.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Germany is in recession. Fact, not estimate.

How does that impact the lives of people living in the UK?

[onthedarkside]

Flame post removed

[candide]

38 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Germany is in recession. Fact, not estimate.

It's exactly the same. The Q1 numbers from the German institute of statistics are not more reliable than the Q1 numbers from the ONS. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by candide

[youreavinalaff]

33 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

How does that impact the lives of people living in the UK?

I don't know.

 

Ask Candide. He's the one who mentioned Germany. I just corrected him.

[youreavinalaff]

2 minutes ago, candide said:

It's exactly the same. The Q1 numbers from the German institute of statistics are not more reliable than the Q1 numbers from the ONS. 

Facts and estimates are the same? Not in my dictionary.

[candide]

2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Facts and estimates are the same? Not in my dictionary.

Who told you the Ifo number is not an an estimate?

[youreavinalaff]

17 minutes ago, candide said:

Who told you the Ifo number is not an an estimate?

I haven't mentioned IFo. The figures I read, with regards to German recession,  came from DekaBank. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[Jeff the Chef]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

Germany is in recession. Fact, not estimate.

Brexit has failed, now who said that?

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Brexit has failed, now who said that?

Why are you asking a question , a question which you know the answer to ?

[candide]

44 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I haven't mentioned IFo. The figures I read, with regards to German recession,  came from DekaBank. 

DekaBank uses the data from Ifo. Only the national statistics offices collect and aggregate the data. It's the same in other countries. Results published less than one or two months (or more) after the end of quarter are always estimates, as they have not received all the data. 

Ex

"BERLIN: The 

German economy

 contracted in the first quarter of 2023 compared with the previous three months, thereby entering recession, data from the statistics office showed on Thursday.

Gross domestic product

 fell by 0.3% for the quarter when adjusted for price and calendar effects, a second estimate showed. "

https://m.timesofindia.com/business/international-business/german-economy-goes-into-recession-as-gdp-shrinks-by-0-3-in-q1/articleshow/100496817.cms

 

You cannot have it both ways!

Edited May 26, 2023 by candide

[youreavinalaff]

42 minutes ago, candide said:

DekaBank uses the data from Ifo. Only the national statistics offices collect and aggregate the data. It's the same in other countries. Results published less than one or two months (or more) after the end of quarter are always estimates, as they have not received all the data. 

Ex

"BERLIN: The 

German economy

 contracted in the first quarter of 2023 compared with the previous three months, thereby entering recession, data from the statistics office showed on Thursday.

Gross domestic product

 fell by 0.3% for the quarter when adjusted for price and calendar effects, a second estimate showed. "

https://m.timesofindia.com/business/international-business/german-economy-goes-into-recession-as-gdp-shrinks-by-0-3-in-q1/articleshow/100496817.cms

 

You cannot have it both ways!

The report says " Germany has gone into recession". That is present perfect tense. Not future. It has happened.

 

I'm not having it both ways. It's quite simple.

[candide]

2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

The report says " Germany has gone into recession". That is present perfect tense. Not future. It has happened.

 

I'm not having it both ways. It's quite simple.

What are you talking about? The Q1 2023 released by the ONS is not future either. It has happened. You are trying to get it both ways. Both are estimates of past activity. Actually all 2023 Q1 numbers released now in any country are estimates.

 

Or are you confusing estimates of past activity  with the forecast of the future state of an economy?

 

[placeholder]

11 hours ago, JonnyF said:

He's basically saying it's not as hard line as he wanted it to be.

 

I can sympathize with the opinion, I'd have liked a harder Brexit as well but for you to take his comments completely out of context to mean "Britain is failing after Brexit" is disingenuous in the extreme, but entirely consistent with your MO.

Here's what Farage said:

 

“What Brexit has proved, I’m afraid, is that our politicians are about as useless as the commissioners in Brussels. We’ve mismanaged this totally,” Farage said, responding to a raft of data suggesting there had been a negative economic impact of Brexit.

“Brexit has failed,” he added. “We’ve not delivered on Brexit and the Tories have let us down very, very badly.”

 

Unless he is actually not speaking English but some foreign language that looks like English that you've translated, your interpretation is clearly nonsensical.

[placeholder]

11 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Given worldwide economic conditions, Britain has done remarkably well since leaving. Germany for example, the powerhouse economy of the EU has just slipped into recession. Imagine that, Germany, still in the EU, the world's biggest common market with all that trade right on it's doorstep has slipped into recession. I guess being in the EU isn't all it's cracked up to be huh. I wonder if Germans voted to be poorer? 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/25/germany-economy-falls-into-recession-high-prices-take-toll

What this proves is that the UK was very foresighted in reducing its industrial base so much that it only accounts for  9.5% economic output whereas in Germany it accounts for almost 27% of economic output. It was the hit to the manufacturing sector, where the UK so brilliantly lags Germany, that accounted for Germany's current decline. What makes the Germans case even worse is that their GDP per capita is in US dollars about $5000 more than the UK.  And still more bad news for Germany. Not only is GDP per capita greater in Germany, but Income is more evenly distributed there than in the UK.  In fact, the median German yearly income amounts to about 41700 in pounds (converted from Euros) compared to the average British yearly income of 33000.

https://data.oecd.org/inequality/income-inequality.htm

 

[Seppius]

The case for Swexit: Swedish MEP says his country is 'being dragged into a union no voter wants', praises 'inspirational' Brexit and warns Remoaners who want to rejoin the EU it is WORSE since Britain left

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12132119/The-case-Swexit-Swedish-MEP-says-country-dragged-union-no-voter-wants.html