Outgoing Foreign Minister defends his two days of regional dialogue with Myanmar held in Pattaya

[webfact]

Minister of Foreign Affairs Don Pramudwinai claimed that the dialogue held last Sunday and Monday between Myanmar junta representatives and officials from ASEAN countries, India and China, held in Pattaya, had produced constructive ideas while also insisting the talks were both routine and in Thailand’s national interest.

Desperate bid by the caretaker government to present the Burmese junta regime in Nay Pyi Taw as legitimate has drawn hostility from politicians in Thailand, other ASEAN countries and Southeast Asian foreign policy experts. Nevertheless, Deputy Prime Minister Don Pramudwinai steadfastly insisted the move was in Thailand’s strategic interests.

The last desperate efforts earlier this week by the outgoing government to bring the failing Burmese junta in from the cold appears to have backfired with key countries within the ASEAN bloc failing to take part and also making their displeasure known about the initiative. One Australian expert has described the two-day dialogue attended by officials from a handful of ASEAN countries, as well as India and China, as damaging and destructive to the ASEAN bloc. In the aftermath of the talks, however, Thailand’s Deputy Prime Minister Don Pramudwinai defended the meetings that took place as an effort to preserve Thailand’s strategic interests given the country’s unique position as Myanmar’s neighbour with an extensive border. Mr Don also warned that as matters stood, the rising conflict there threatened regional stability and must be addressed.

 

The outgoing government is facing criticism both at home and abroad over its sudden initiative launched last week to host an informal dialogue between the unrecognised Myanmar military junta and representatives from a handful of member ASEAN countries and other parties who agreed to attend the controversial two-day event in Pattaya held on Sunday and Monday last.

 

by James Morris and Son Nguyen

 

Full story: https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2023/06/23/foreign-minister-don-pramudwinai-defends-talks-with-myanmar/

 

-- © Copyright Thai Examiner 2023-06-24

 

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[herfiehandbag]

No matter who the government is in Bangkok, the military and police will continue to control the borders.

 

We represent the people who run the military and police.

 

We are the people you will need to do business with; especially if the new government ramps up the sanctions.

 

Just like the old days with the Khmer Rouge. There is money to be made.

Edited June 23, 2023 by herfiehandbag

[ThailandRyan]

Sad to think they value the lives of those from Myanmar, who are under attack and a war of genocide being raged, so little 

 

My wife's family has fled from there homes in Kachin State and as Ethnic Karen's they are being forced out because of the war. Myanmar does not want to be a country of many ethnicities, they want to be Burmese pure.

 

How can the Thai government, currently in power condone this......rhetorical question as we know the answer.

Edited June 24, 2023 by ThailandRyan

[MrMojoRisin]

And so the corrupt network continues to unravel…., when Pita is PM, setting the standard, how many citizens of the nations bordering Thailand will decide it’s time for their homelands to throw off the yoke of military rule and finally become free and democratic?

[bamnutsak]

FM Don's primary rationale seems the be the "length of the border".

 

AFAIK, this length has remained constant over the years so I am unclear on why that's justifacation now?

 

IMO, if he had a good reason he would have used it by now.

 

Suspect this is some tidying up before the transition to the next government.

[MikeandDow]

1 hour ago, MrMojoRisin said:

And so the corrupt network continues to unravel…., when Pita is PM, setting the standard, how many citizens of the nations bordering Thailand will decide it’s time for their homelands to throw off the yoke of military rule and finally become free and democratic?

wishfull thinking

[spidermike007]

Don: Can you please stop slaughtering your people and picking on minorities? And don't rape them. It makes us look really bad. Can you try to control your dreaded soldiers and army?

 

Than Shwe:

Sorry. We are simply having too much fun. All this power and the billions of dollars we are stealing from the resources is intoxicating. We never liked the minorities anyway. And many of our senior monks are racists. So, it works for us. This is what we wanted all along. Democracy and policies that benefit the people would have really gotten in the way of our robber baron M.O.

 

Don: Well, as army despots, we do share some of your views. Except, we don't like genocide. Guess there is not much more to talk about. I know you love good wine. I brought a beautiful bottle of 1990 Cheval Blanc. And four bottles of 1982 Lafite Rothschild. It only cost me $2300 a bottle, as the price of great Bordeaux has really come down. Let's hang out and see if we can polish off the case. Sound good? 

[Cabradelmar]

military juntas love military juntas

 

[ThaiFelix]

Interesting that only 5 days notice was given for the meeting, annoying many members.  The timing also seems to coincide with the EC's clearing of MForward party's right to govern.   Military always supports military.  The rule of the miltary here appears to be coming to an end.  I would guess, due to this, there are loads of gem and arms deals etc up in the air that need sorted before its too late.  I think its also a way for the generals to show thier support for each other.  They may not be in govt anymore but they are still around and have a lot of connections and influence.  The border is a cash cow in many ways.

[TheFishman1]

No surprise, but shameful TIT

[chalawaan]

Thai Rak Tatmadaw?

[MrMojoRisin]

2 hours ago, MikeandDow said:

wishfull thinking

Cynicism achieves very little.

[hotchilli]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

The last desperate efforts earlier this week by the outgoing government to bring the failing Burmese junta in from the cold appears to have backfired with key countries within the ASEAN bloc failing to take part and also making their displeasure known about the initiative.

The failing Burmese Junta?

They are winning all the spoils of war while the people are being massacred.

 

[Reigntax]

Juntas have to stick together. The Thai military junta may need an easy border to cross where they will be welcomed with open arms and likeminded thinking and oppression.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Reigntax

[paul1804]

8 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Sad to think they value the lives of those from Myanmar, who are under attack and a war of genocide being raged, so little 

 

My wife's family has fled from there homes in Kachin State and as Ethnic Karen's they are being forced out because of the war. Myanmar does not want to be a country of many ethnicities, they want to be Burmese pure.

 

How can the Thai government, currently in power condone this......rhetorical question as we know the answer.

I guess its a fair indication of the caliber of the Thai ruling parties generals integrity or should I say the complete lack of it! The military led governments of many nations are inadequate, mostly very corrupt and certainly not there for the people they are supposed to be leading and protecting! Myanmars Junta is the typical example and the countries Myannmar call their friends are the likes of Russia & North Korea, China of course who is there for the grab! If Xi really had the regions best interests at heart he would be offering aid & investment in exchange for the Junta to lay down its arms but we know that is unlikely to happen! 

[Srikcir]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

outgoing government to bring the failing Burmese junta in from the cold

That was already done back in 2022. 

"PM says incursion of Myanmar jet into Thai airspace not a big deal. " www.thaipbsworld.com , July 1, 2022

Apparently, the MiG29 jet appeared to be providing air support for Mynamar junta ground troops against Karen rebel (ie., anti-junta) forces and in its ground straffing attack it had to fly into Thailand airspace before it could circle around for another run.

No problemo from Prayut. Birds of a feather and all that. 

[phil2407]

Whatever way you look at it - it's no different than Thailand but Myanmar had a fully democratic leader - unlike Thailand which added the 250 senators, the EC (waste of air & space) then the constitution which the Thai people voted in favour of but didn't read the "small print"& conditions which the Junta kept quiet - so not a surprise "brothers in arms" 

Just a shame the West not doing the same as in the Ukraine but guess not much in it for them! 

[Stevemercer]

The initiative was out of order, and well beyond Caretaker Conventions, as it may have bound the new incoming government to the old government's policy. Worse, it was politically motivated since the new government has made it clear it does not agree with the policy.

[h90]

10 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

No matter who the government is in Bangkok, the military and police will continue to control the borders.

 

We represent the people who run the military and police.

 

We are the people you will need to do business with; especially if the new government ramps up the sanctions.

 

Just like the old days with the Khmer Rouge. There is money to be made.

And what does the people want with Myanmar? There was no vote about foreign politics and for sure it wasn't a big topic and than 28% of the voter voted for MFP.

The outgoing government shouldn't do any politics anymore...they are past.

But I can't see the voter want to loose money and starting a conflict with Myanmar. Friendly relations with neighbors are always good.

Even during the cold war we could have mostly friendly relations with the communist neighbors in Europe.

[h90]

26 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

The initiative was out of order, and well beyond Caretaker Conventions, as it may have bound the new incoming government to the old government's policy. Worse, it was politically motivated since the new government has made it clear it does not agree with the policy.

Yes...whatever the opinion on Myanmar it is not the Caretakers business. If for any reason the election of the new PM fails and the time goes on, we could maybe argue that the caretaker government need to do something. But that is not the case....so it is out of order.

The caretaker government can make a nice plan and leave it as recommendation on the table for the new government...that is all.

[brianthainess]

How sickening ????????????was he given a gift on leaving, or a bag to carry?$$$$

[kennw]

10 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Sad to think they value the lives of those from Myanmar, who are under attack and a war of genocide being raged, so little 

 

My wife's family has fled from there homes in Kachin State and as Ethnic Karen's they are being forced out because of the war. Myanmar does not want to be a country of many ethnicities, they want to be Burmese pure.

 

How can the Thai government, currently in power condone this......rhetorical question as we know the answer.

It was a very bad political decision to try to involve the other Asean members when in his own words his aim was to protect Thailand's interests. If that is the case just have a one on one meeting. But if such a meeting went wrong then he could not use the typical "not my fault" excuse. ( IE brakes failed, etc etc.)

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, h90 said:

And what does the people want with Myanmar? There was no vote about foreign politics and for sure it wasn't a big topic and than 28% of the voter voted for MFP.  Wonder if Prayut will be taking all of the P letter keys from the keyboards with  him when he leaves office.

The outgoing government shouldn't do any politics anymore...they are past.

But I can't see the voter want to loose money and starting a conflict with Myanmar. Friendly relations with neighbors are always good.

Even during the cold war we could have mostly friendly relations with the communist neighbors in Europe.

A caretaker government should be sitting on there hands and biding there time until shown the door, not creating a feces mess for the new Government to clean-up.

[Phil1964]

How long until Thailand's junta 'does a Myanmar' on it's own populace to retain their power and privileges?

 

 

[herfiehandbag]

It is a very long border.

 

International sanctions are being applied to the Myanmar regime, sanctions which are designed to prevent them from raising cash from the spoils looted from their country. Sanctions which are likely to become more stringent, and likely to be supported by a democratic Western looking government in Bangkok. Yes, they can continue to trade with China, but, for the people running Myanmar, hard cash is what they want - that means US dollars.

 

Let's consider three things: who patrols and effectively controls that very long border (it is not an elected government in Bangkok), what are the easily portable products which can produce cash, and how much money is to be made.

 

There is a precedent, the illicit border trade in weapons, gems and high value timbers with the Khmer Rouge controlled areas of Cambodia. A number of quite significant "players" made a lot of money out of that; money which was useful to further their subsequent careers. They are still in positions of "influence".

Edited June 25, 2023 by herfiehandbag

[mikebell]

On 6/24/2023 at 4:31 AM, webfact said:

Thailand’s Deputy Prime Minister Don Pramudwinai defended the meetings that took place as an effort to

have one last jolly down Soi 6 before losing their job.

[AustinRacing]

The only thing I like about this guy is his hair and glasses. Just about every other politician dye their hair and not wear glasses (if they need it) pretending to be younger, a sign of deceptive behavior. 

[geisha]

Shameful action of this Don !! And why Pattaya ?

[Srikcir]

20 hours ago, h90 said:

Friendly relations with neighbors are always good.

Even during the cold war we could have mostly friendly relations with the communist neighbors in Europe.

Ah yes, friendly relations with neighbors. 

 

Putting aside Thailand's friendly attitude with North Korea (embassy in Bangkok), pandering with China; blissful of unfriendly European Cold War relations with East Germany, Russian invasion of Afganistan/Hungary /Czechoslovakia, China invasion of Vietnam, Vietnam invasion of Cambodia, Sino-Soviet border conflict, etc.

 

Thailan's world diplomacy has been stuck in the mid-1900's and seems to sell out to whatever country gives it favor without regard to democratic ideology.

Hopefully, MFP can change that direction, albeit with baby steps until the RTM can be accountable to the Thai people.

[ThaiFelix]

On 6/24/2023 at 2:11 PM, Reigntax said:

Juntas have to stick together. The Thai military junta may need an easy border to cross where they will be welcomed with open arms and likeminded thinking and oppression.

as well as the conduits thru which to extract the spoils.