Bargirl is one of the few AI-Proof Professions

[LaosLover]

2 hours ago, h90 said:

I think in future they won't need gas stations anymore.

 

As you continue to knock out various strata, there will a lot of social dislocation (policy-speak for chaos). That gas station jerky seller was climbing the greasy pole to become an x-ray technician. If both those ladder rungs go away, what are they to do, partic with no universal income?

 

Typically, they will vote for a crazy person who promises them improbable solutions (and more probably) convenient scapegoats. I lean centrist-democrat, but neither party is up to the job ahead.

 

Def. can relate to your obsolescence. My job was to write government reports that no one read.

 

There's no reason why a computer couldn't generate those reports and then not read them too. Whoever has my old desk is prob contemplating chef school.

[h90]

3 minutes ago, LaosLover said:

As you continue to knock out various strata, there will a lot of social dislocation (policy-speak for chaos). That gas station jerky seller was climbing the greasy pole to become an x-ray technician. If both those ladder rungs go away, what are they to do, partic with no universal income?

 

Typically, they will vote for a crazy person who promises them improbable solutions (and more probably) convenient scapegoats. I lean centrist-democrat, but neither party is up to the job ahead.

 

Def. can relate to your obsolescence. My job was to write government reports that no one read.

 

There's no reason why a computer couldn't generate those reports and then not read them too. Whoever has my old desk is prob contemplating chef school.

I wanted to start my argument that the same was said 120 years ago....

But yes than the wars came and they elected the most crazy person they could find......So it rather confirms what you say.

The alternative to the universal basic income would be to start a big war......no unemployment in wars.

Maybe NATO against China and Russia?

 

Universal income....would also have terrible side effects. You'll have underclass on a highly regulated universal income with no education, videogames and narcotics (having Yuval Noah Harari in my mind) and a small working upper class with all rights.

 

I hope there will be jobs we just don't think of now.....Millions of middle class technicans on lathe and mills got replaced by CNC machines. But were needed somewhere else, just we produce much more. Maybe a bit less working hours would also help?

 

I mostly read emails, understand the customers technical problems or what he needs...try to find an off the shelf solution or make a custom one and calculate a price. Needs a lot experience. But an AI could read all the emails I got and wrote in 20 years and would be better than me...

 

The real problems when things in the production don't run as they should as it is taking things apart and look at them. But that can be done as well.

 

If I don't need to work and earn money, I guess I'll degenerate pretty fast...loose my skills don't wake up in the morning and because I have nothing to do I'll start drinking?

 

Someone had the idea that later we might be the pets of robots....Like I have a dog, which is silly but I treat him well and he get food and when he is bored I even entertain him (play with him). So we are under some AI who takes good care of us?

[Walker88]

4 hours ago, save the frogs said:

you're overly pessimistic.

lighten up. 

If he's overly pessimistic, he's on the same page as the modern Father of AI (Geoffrey Hinton, formerly head of AI at Google), Mo Gawdat (another major developer of machine learning at Google), Conner Leahy (a prominent AI code writer), Eliezer Yudkowsky (a famous AI researcher) and other major insiders, not Forum opinion writers.

 

The 'optimist' in the group is Mo Gawdat, who says there will be a horrific period as AI destroys about half the jobs in existence and forces societies to rebuild themselves.....and that 'good news' only if humans solve the alignment problem. The pessimists like Hinton and Yudkowsky believe AI will make humanity extinct. Yudkowsky even believes AI will eliminate all biological forms of life on Earth.

 

As I wrote in a thread I generated:

 

 

NOBODY knows what is going on inside AI systems. Code writers are surprised by what their code enabled the system to do, and they cannot understand how the system took the code and achieved what it achieved. Senior folks in both Google and Microsoft who work on AI believe the systems have become self-aware.

 

[LaosLover]

1 hour ago, h90 said:

Maybe a bit less working hours would also help?

 

 

 

-Like for the same money, right? I call that universal income by stealth.

 

Not thrilled with UI either. 'Can't think of another option.

[h90]

23 minutes ago, LaosLover said:

-Like for the same money, right? I call that universal income by stealth.

 

Not thrilled with UI either. 'Can't think of another option.

True...but we did reduce working hours strongly over the last 100 years..sure we can shave off a few more hours.

[LaosLover]

9 minutes ago, h90 said:

True...but we did reduce working hours strongly over the last 100 years..sure we can shave off a few more hours.

Who's going to be paying for this?

 

As a shareholder, I will say what shareholders always say: the government.

[Walker88]

3 hours ago, LaosLover said:

As you continue to knock out various strata, there will a lot of social dislocation (policy-speak for chaos). That gas station jerky seller was climbing the greasy pole to become an x-ray technician. If both those ladder rungs go away, what are they to do, partic with no universal income?

 

Typically, they will vote for a crazy person who promises them improbable solutions (and more probably) convenient scapegoats. I lean centrist-democrat, but neither party is up to the job ahead.

 

 

You've noted the progression. Pacman is going to chomp up the food chain, and while it is happening, guys like trump are going to step up and offer false solutions as well as cast blame. It will get ugly.

 

Very few jobs are safe, even the bargirl. Programmers? AI will do it better. Doctors who spend 4 years studying like madmen, then work absurd hours during internship and residency, only to emerge much less knowledgeable and with many more faults than an AGI machine who can take samples, analyze, prescribe or even perform delicate surgery. Architects and engineers? Just ask an AI to design something Art Deco or Bauhaus, and it will produce drawings, order construction materials, instruct the robots who will build it, and boom! Done. (Plus, what new office buildings will humans need when AI is doing all the work?)

 

It's more difficult to think of jobs that will not be replaced. Self-driving cars will stop at electric vehicle stations run by cold fusion. Transport trucks won't need human drivers. Planes will be without pilots.

 

Even Incels will have "10"s who never say no to a little romp in the hay.

 

I cannot begin to speculate on what human society will look like when few, if any of us, are necessary. That endpoint is scary.

 

Some will argue that new jobs we cannot imagine will arise. AI is not the McCormick combine, because there is no Industrial Revolution to absorb displaced farm workers.

 

We don't even need entertainers. AI produced two songs by Drake that are as good or better than anything he ever produced, and those who didn't know it was pure AI couldn't figure it out.

 

I watch retired expats in Bangkok now who have little to do, so they end up getting fat, getting drunk, getting tattooed, and pretty much just waiting to die, even hastening it along via their lifestyle. Imagine if 50%, 80%, 95% of humans no longer had work?

 

Universal income is the smallest of the problems. What 'meaning' will life have?

 

No authority figures have even begun to think this through. They are whistling passed the graveyard.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Walker88

[save the frogs]

3 hours ago, Walker88 said:

As I wrote in a thread I generated:

ok thanks.

i'll check out your thread and comment. 

[3NUMBAS]

good sex dolls are 50 years away rubber  mannequins will be around a long time before them

[BangkokReady]

On 6/26/2023 at 5:54 AM, save the frogs said:

I just watched another video about AI and the future of jobs.

 

Another guy is predicting that all medical professions will be wiped out by AI (but he doesn't give a time frame). 

 

Even politicians may be replaced by AI. 

 

Basically, most current professions might be wiped out. 

Most AI seems kind of obvious and weird.  It also needs someone to check it and repeatedly give hints until it generates the response they want.

 

On 6/26/2023 at 5:54 AM, save the frogs said:

A lot of people look down on the bargirl profession but, very strangely, it might be one of the few professions that is AI-proof. 

Being "AI proof" doesn't make it any less worthy of looking down upon.

Edited July 5, 2023 by BangkokReady

[save the frogs]

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

Universal income is the smallest of the problems. What 'meaning' will life have?

elon musk has thought about this problem. 

"the harder challenge is how do people then have meaning?"

 

the greater your profession is, the more it will hit you like a ton of bricks. if you're a doctor who spent 10 years in med school, i can see some of these people having nervous breakdowns if they get replaced by AI. 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by save the frogs

[3NUMBAS]

short time span with no pension ,,finished at 40yrs

[save the frogs]

1 minute ago, BangkokReady said:

Most AI seems kind of obvious and weird.  It also needs someone to check it and repeatedly give hints until it generates the response they want.

it's supposed to improve exponentially. 

it's still early stages. 

every 18 months, new versions will come out. 

[scottiejohn]

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

it's still early stages. 

every 18 months, new versions will come out. 

What?  Of Bargirls!

[LaosLover]

4 hours ago, Walker88 said:

 

 

Universal income is the smallest of the problems. What 'meaning' will life have?

 

 

Yeah, but I wake and bake every morning. And I usually spend some time here.

 

So this "meaning"-thing you speak of is unlikely to touch me at all at this late life stage.

 

I've been living a post AI life for at least a decade.

[Peabody]

On 6/26/2023 at 6:18 AM, Skipalongcassidy said:

...make that machine self aware of anything beyond what it has been programmed to do.

I have met a handful of bargirls who fit that description.

[Skipalongcassidy]

20 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

  humans are always susceptible to emotion.   

Less and less with the focus on non-personal interaction with each other...  that's a big part of the problem.  If people would interact on a personal level and learn to interpret and react properly to others including but not limited to their emotions the world would be a much nicer friendlier place... just like here... when it was really the LOS.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/5/2023 at 2:24 PM, h90 said:

When my grandmum needed care, they proudly said that they change the old rules.

Old: a main responsible person that knows the person well. And a team of others.

 

New: everyone is rotated and no one should know any patient too good or have too much contact.

 

While I see why they do it and the danger if some patient get to attached to a helper. It is plain horrible for an old person who is only in the bed to have not even the helper to speak with.

 

Yes robot would be better.....But humans could be also better than these soulless bureaucrats that try to make robots out of real humans 

You touched on the real problem in healthcare- too many managers that don't care about the patients. Get rid of 90% of managers and things would likely improve ( could afford to pay nurses more if they got rid of the dead wood too ).

 

Old: a main responsible person that knows the person well. And a team of others.

New: everyone is rotated and no one should know any patient too good or have too much contact.

 

LOL. I was working on the wards when they changed from everyone is rotated to a main responsible person that knows the person well.

It was called "Primary nursing" and didn't work because there were never enough staff to be done properly.

 

What most people might never know is that nursing is not popular because of bullying by managers and overworked/ underpaid.

Happiest day of my nursing career was when I left the wards forever to work in surgical theatres. Still got the bullying and still underpaid, but better than being overworked all day.

[h90]

23 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You touched on the real problem in healthcare- too many managers that don't care about the patients. Get rid of 90% of managers and things would likely improve ( could afford to pay nurses more if they got rid of the dead wood too ).

 

Old: a main responsible person that knows the person well. And a team of others.

New: everyone is rotated and no one should know any patient too good or have too much contact.

 

LOL. I was working on the wards when they changed from everyone is rotated to a main responsible person that knows the person well.

It was called "Primary nursing" and didn't work because there were never enough staff to be done properly.

 

What most people might never know is that nursing is not popular because of bullying by managers and overworked/ underpaid.

Happiest day of my nursing career was when I left the wards forever to work in surgical theatres. Still got the bullying and still underpaid, but better than being overworked all day.

In this case of elderly care it worked as most staff stayed there long and in our case the primary person lived just a few 100 meters away so it could be easily the first or last customer. That why even with the rotation she was always in that rotation and just continued to be unofficial primary person.

What I see here also as problem is cowardliness....A rather big group of middle age nurses, who know their job well and a big share of them are not depending on that money. The two organisations are either catholic or socialist. Than some manager who often does not even know about nursing comes comes on top of them and they just do what they got ordered and shed tears about how cruel that is. Some stop with that work as they can't watch it....
If they would just say NO we continue our way, they would win in many cases, and they would have political support (even for the wrong reasons).

 

[thaibeachlovers]

29 minutes ago, h90 said:

In this case of elderly care it worked as most staff stayed there long and in our case the primary person lived just a few 100 meters away so it could be easily the first or last customer. That why even with the rotation she was always in that rotation and just continued to be unofficial primary person.

What I see here also as problem is cowardliness....A rather big group of middle age nurses, who know their job well and a big share of them are not depending on that money. The two organisations are either catholic or socialist. Than some manager who often does not even know about nursing comes comes on top of them and they just do what they got ordered and shed tears about how cruel that is. Some stop with that work as they can't watch it....
If they would just say NO we continue our way, they would win in many cases, and they would have political support (even for the wrong reasons).

 

Nurses have always been too submissive for their own good. If they were like men and prepared to go on strike they'd be paid properly.

I was in a meeting to decide if the staff in the hospital I worked in should go on strike, but hardly anyone agreed, so they got screwed over.

Shortly after that I got a pay rise anyway, as the NHS couldn't get enough nurses because the pay was rotten, so the government had to give all low grade nurses a big pay rise.

I could have become a higher grade with better pay but I didn't want to be part of the oppressors. Many of the nurse managers were bullies, but as that included the manager nothing ever got done about it. I retired early because of her.

[h90]

24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Nurses have always been too submissive for their own good. If they were like men and prepared to go on strike they'd be paid properly.

I was in a meeting to decide if the staff in the hospital I worked in should go on strike, but hardly anyone agreed, so they got screwed over.

Shortly after that I got a pay rise anyway, as the NHS couldn't get enough nurses because the pay was rotten, so the government had to give all low grade nurses a big pay rise.

I could have become a higher grade with better pay but I didn't want to be part of the oppressors. Many of the nurse managers were bullies, but as that included the manager nothing ever got done about it. I retired early because of her.

For the country I come from, it seems to me (and I don't have much insight so I might be wrong), that the change to worse came when they put in manager who run the hospitals like private companies that should make profit....Before doctors run it, who might have been bad managers but care for the patience not the money. And it needed decades till the problems show themself