How to deal with an overwhelmingly negative opinion of Thai people.

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, bogs smith said:

wow. finally a reply that resonates with me. you are a rose between lots of thorns, sir.

 

thanks for your honesty. 

Interesting, someone who agrees with you is honest, therefore those who disagree or suggest you change things around are dishonest.

I suspect you have not bothered to learn anything but the most rudimentary Thai, there are quite a few foreigners who don't. They expect Thais to accommodate their reluctance.

[Walker88]

41 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

It does not matter whither you take the elements individually or collectively!

It is still total BS!

You have no idea why an individual is in that set of circumstances, on that particular occasion, of you first seeing them in order to relate to their everyday life.

 

They could be anyone from a road sweeper (no offence meant "Trigger") to the managing director of a company going to funeral, a wedding or to work on their allotment!

 

You don't know until you converse with them!

 

 

 

Well, you'd better get word to the FBI, MI5, MI6, Mossad, the CIA, FSB, GRU, law enforcement across the globe, even CHAOS and SPECTRE, because all use that combination of dress, movement, facial expression, mannerisms, etc. to 'profile'.

 

AI is going to make assessment even more accurate.

 

Here's a weird example:

 

There are actually algorithms now that can can guess a woman is pregnant even before she knows it, based on what she looks at in grocery stores and how much time she spends looking, since pregnant women develop tastes for certain foods.

 

Relating this to the OP, his overall appearance may rub people the wrong way, based on human's primal ability to read body language.

 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, bogs smith said:

what about the smog though? must be like smoking 2 packs a day livin up there .

It's 2-3 months of the year, I just crank up the air purifiers when the API gets to more than 50. During the rainy season and winter, the air is a damn sight cleaner than Bangkok.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

You must be joking!

What have my work clothes, for instance, got to do with my personality etc!

Your work clothes can say a lot about your personality.

Neatly pressed and clean will be a different kettle of fish to dishevelled, dirty or torn. The first says a person is fastidious, the second the wearer is a slob.

[473geo]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Your work clothes can say a lot about your personality.

Neatly pressed and clean will be a different kettle of fish to dishevelled, dirty or torn. The first says a person is fastidious, the second the wearer is a slob.

Unless you are on your way back from working on the farm ????

[473geo]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

The lady moved to another table.... One reason could be that she can't speak any English and was afraid you might try to engage her in an English conversation. 

So rather than lose face by not being able to understand you / engage in any conversation she moved.

 

This is possible.

Actually in the rural area I live I suspect the women are quite shy 

[473geo]

24 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Well, you'd better get word to the FBI, MI5, MI6, Mossad, the CIA, FSB, GRU, law enforcement across the globe, even CHAOS and SPECTRE, because all use that combination of dress, movement, facial expression, mannerisms, etc. to 'profile'.

 

AI is going to make assessment even more accurate.

 

Here's a weird example:

 

There are actually algorithms now that can can guess a woman is pregnant even before she knows it, based on what she looks at in grocery stores and how much time she spends looking, since pregnant women develop tastes for certain foods.

 

Relating this to the OP, his overall appearance may rub people the wrong way, based on human's primal ability to read body language.

 

When my wife and I travel to the farm I ride a bike my wife on a motorcycle

If I am leading Thai women will look past me and acknowledge my wife 

Of my wife is in front they will acknowledge her then smile as they pass me ????

So what does your profiling make of that?

Edited June 26, 2023 by 473geo

[scottiejohn]

30 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

There are actually algorithms now that can can guess a woman is pregnant even before she knows it, based on what she looks at in grocery stores and how much time she spends looking, since pregnant women develop tastes for certain foods.

It is actually based on her credit card purchases because of her as yet not diagnosed pregnancy but on her pregnancy cravings;

All About Pregnancy Cravings and When They Start | Pampers

[scottiejohn]

34 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Well, you'd better get word to the FBI, MI5, MI6, Mossad, the CIA, FSB, GRU, law enforcement across the globe, even CHAOS and SPECTRE, because all use that combination of dress, movement, facial expression, mannerisms, etc. to 'profile'.

All with just one look at the so called "subject" with no background detail at all!  

Are you a screenwriter perchance?

????

[JimTripper]

4 hours ago, proton said:

You only wai up not down, if you are wai ing all and sundry first it makes you look ridiculous in Thai eyes. 

There’s no reason why you could not wai down. I have never seen it done and it would be insulting. It would be saying something like you deserve to be lower towards the feet and the ground. The fingers could be pointed down and move towards the feet, rather then up as usual.

[3NUMBAS]

ithink theyre  just nervous for so reason in case you start chatting in engish

[proton]

7 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

There’s no reason why you could not wai down. I have never seen it done and it would be insulting. It would be saying something like you deserve to be lower towards the feet and the ground. The fingers could be pointed down and move towards the feet, rather then up as usual.

I did not mean the hand position which is higher or lower, I referred to social/age hierarchy of those you wai. Eg totally not done to wai taxi drivers, waitresses or  hotel doormen first.

[BangkokReady]

10 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

The phrase "when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression" comes to mind.

So when Thai people treat you badly, in a way that they would not treat a fellow Thai, that's equality?

 

You sound as bad as the people you are criticising.

Edited June 26, 2023 by BangkokReady

[richard_smith237]

14 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

So when Thai people treat you badly, in a way that they would not treat a fellow Thai, that's equality?

 

You sound as bad as the people you are criticising.

He makes a valid point.

 

Thai’s treat each other with a general degree of indifference… When they treat a Westerner with the same indifference some think it’s negative when in reality it’s just simple indifference. 

[JimTripper]

20 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

He makes a valid point.

 

Thai’s treat each other with a general degree of indifference… When they treat a Westerner with the same indifference some think it’s negative when in reality it’s just simple indifference. 

Usually it does not matter much as long as I’m served promptly, and well.

[BangkokReady]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

He makes a valid point.

 

Thai’s treat each other with a general degree of indifference… When they treat a Westerner with the same indifference some think it’s negative when in reality it’s just simple indifference. 

I disagree.  What the OP is talking about is far more than indifference.  The person I replied to is trying to downplay and trivialise what the OP has experienced as they appear to be upset by his comparison between himself and what Black people have experienced.

 

His response suggest something along the lines of "The fact that you think you're oppressed means that you are actually used to being privileged, but now you are being treated normally, and you don't like it".

 

If he was being honest, he would be able to admit that something like moving away from a foreigner, lifting of the mask upon noticing their presence, things of this nature, are in no way "a privileged White man finally being treated as an equal and not liking it.

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

I disagree.  What the OP is talking about is far more than indifference.  The person I replied to is trying to downplay and trivialise what the OP has experienced as they appear to be upset by his comparison between himself and what Black people have experienced.

 

His response suggest something along the lines of "The fact that you think you're oppressed means that you are actually used to being privileged, but now you are being treated normally, and you don't like it".

 

If he was being honest, he would be able to admit that something like moving away from a foreigner, lifting of the mask upon noticing their presence, things of this nature, are in no way "a privileged White man finally being treated as an equal and not liking it.

He's one person. It's not appropriate to compare his experience with racism. Everybody assesses ( I don't like the word "judge", it's an Americanism) everyone they come into contact with individually and have a right to reject anyone based on personal attributes.

 

There are racist people in all countries, some more than others. That doesn't make the majority population racist.

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

He's one person. It's not appropriate to compare his experience with racism. Everybody assesses ( I don't like the word "judge", it's an Americanism) everyone they come into contact with individually and have a right to reject anyone based on personal attributes.

 

There are racist people in all countries, some more than others. That doesn't make the majority population racist.

But most Thais I meet is judgemental against foreigners. Isaan people against Cambodians especially, and if you move around, there is always some groups rhey do not like. Do thai like Nigerians? 

 

How about this forum, russians and Indians, ever seen how they are described here?

 

Im not free of guilt, just pointing out the obvious 

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

But most Thais I meet is judgemental against foreigners. Isaan people against Cambodians especially, and if you move around, there is always some groups rhey do not like. Do thai like Nigerians? 

 

How about this forum, russians and Indians, ever seen how they are described here?

 

Im not free of guilt, just pointing out the obvious 

What's obvious is that the OP and most of us belong to none of the countries you mentioned. I'm sure you're also aware that there's a significant part of the Thai population who are of Indian extraction but that's not true of Cambodians or Nigerians.

Edited June 26, 2023 by ozimoron

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

What's obvious is that the OP and most of us belong to none of the countries you mentioned.

Well, I have experienced thaid avoided me in shops, especially when not wearing a mask, and also even with a mask. And I do not take that personally.

 

Thais are racists, so are we even we do say we are not! That was my point

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Well, I have experienced thaid avoided me in shops, especially when not wearing a mask, and also even with a mask. And I do not take that personally.

 

Thais are racists, so are we even we do say we are not! That was my point

I'm not and that's all I can control. If you admit to being a racist you need to do a bit of serious navel gazing.

[Harsh Jones]

8 hours ago, bogs smith said:

who got the fags and the beers in? was it you or the fella in the cap?

Why is your gender listed as female but you haven't corrected anyone who are all assuming you are male ?

 

Who is this shirtless man with this poncy "oh no" look in your avatar ?

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Harsh Jones said:

Why is your gender listed as female but you haven't corrected anyone who are all assuming you are male ?

 

Who is this shirtless man with this poncy "oh no" look in your avatar ?

Damn, I wished I'd read her profile before I sucked into this troll pond.

[Neeranam]

You takes things too personally. Yes, Thais don't like farang, which we don't know when we first come here; we think they love us. 

It is in fact a condition you need counselling for. 

https://eymtherapy.com/blog/learning-to-stop-personalization/

Edited June 26, 2023 by Neeranam

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

I'm not and that's all I can control. If you admit to being a racist you need to do a bit of serious navel gazing.

It is a quite interesting project, convincing people not to be judgemental, or even racists which is one of the fundemental surviving skills humans had since the beginning, and is the most natural fear we instinctly cultivate when we meet challenges in society be it economic, pandemics, war, or hunger. 

 

Yet we can also be surprisingly intolerant of each other. If we are completely honest, there is perhaps a little bit of xenophobia, racism, sexism and bigotry deep within all of us, if we would only allow it. Luckily, we can choose to control and suppress such tendencies for our own wellbeing and the good of society.

 

we are a living experiment for time being, but I do not say I dissagre with you, but I am confident my intolerance could make a step further when I had enough of stupidity, and enough experiences with one type of people which you find most places, and not only related to race. Ignorant sex tourists is one of them who think it is their right to exploite poor women, and as well expect respect from the Thai people at the same time. 

 

https://theconversation.com/is-racism-and-bigotry-in-our-dna-135096

[ozimoron]

35 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It is a quite interesting project, convincing people not to be judgemental, or even racists which is one of the fundemental surviving skills humans had since the beginning, and is the most natural fear we instinctly cultivate when we meet challenges in society be it economic, pandemics, war, or hunger. 

 

Yet we can also be surprisingly intolerant of each other. If we are completely honest, there is perhaps a little bit of xenophobia, racism, sexism and bigotry deep within all of us, if we would only allow it. Luckily, we can choose to control and suppress such tendencies for our own wellbeing and the good of society.

 

we are a living experiment for time being, but I do not say I dissagre with you, but I am confident my intolerance could make a step further when I had enough of stupidity, and enough experiences with one type of people which you find most places, and not only related to race. Ignorant sex tourists is one of them who think it is their right to exploite poor women, and as well expect respect from the Thai people at the same time. 

 

https://theconversation.com/is-racism-and-bigotry-in-our-dna-135096

I'm completely honest and I reject your characterisation of racism as a survival skill. Quite the opposite. Racism is the most destructive element in our society. I don't need to supress racism, I have no inclination toward it. I have been married to 2 Thais and Filipina, had girlfriends from nearly every country in Asia, come from the state with highest indigenous population in Australia, studied traditional indigenous society in Australia at tertiary level as part of an anthropology and sociology degree. I have a deep understanding and keen interest in issues of race and equality. I had aboriginal, greek, italian and chinese classmates at school. Those kids have become uni chancellors, ceo of dow chemical and otherwise very finacially successful within the town I grew up.  It isn't in my DNA.

 

I note this reference within the article you quote:

 

— bigotry. Hardwired into the brain’s amygdala region is a fear reflex that is primed by encounters with the unfamiliar.

 

Scientists have discovered physical differences in the amygdalia of people who are racist vs not. I have posted links to this board in the past.

 

-------------------

 

The problem is, not everyone has a healthy functioning prefrontal cortex, and these people are the ones whose biases control them. They cannot reason those fearful surges away because they lack the cognitive mechanisms that normally allow people to do so.

 

Interestingly, brain imaging studies have found links between impaired prefrontal lobe function and religious fundamentalism.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201809/understanding-the-racist-brain

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201809/understanding-the-racist-brain

Edited June 26, 2023 by ozimoron

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

I'm completely honest and I reject your characterisation of racism as a survival skill. Quite the opposite. Racism is the most destructive element in our society. I don't need to supress racism, I have no inclination toward it. I have been married to 2 Thais and Filipina, had girlfriends from nearly every country in Asia, come from the state with highest indigenous population in Australia, studied traditional indigenous society in Australia at tertiary level as part of an anthropology and sociology degree. I have a deep understanding and keen interest in issues of race and equality. I had aboriginal, greek, italian and chinese clAassmates at school. Those kids have become uni chancellors, ceo of dow chemical and otherwise very finacially successful within the town I grew up.  It isn't in my DNA.

As long you are able to distance yourselves to every possible feeling of intolerance, it might be so, but at some point, you also feel discomfort by other people, not necessery by race, but by apperance, and when that feeling repeat itself enough times, most people create instinctly a reaction and a strong feeling of discomfort. 

 

Working in the eastern part of Oslo when our new citizens (muslims) started to become the majority of this part, was an interesting experience. Many people who had lived there in generations was now pushed out and did not feel welcome anymore. How would you felt if you where invaded in such way? Kids established gangs, drugs, robberies, women was harrassed, etc

 

It is easy to distance yourself from it, because you do not live there, and I did not live there myself, I was just a security working day and night. 

[ozimoron]

16 minutes ago, Hummin said:

As long you are able to distance yourselves to every possible feeling of intolerance, it might be so, but at some point, you also feel discomfort by other people, not necessery by race, but by apperance, and when that feeling repeat itself enough times, most people create instinctly a reaction and a strong feeling of discomfort. 

 

Working in the eastern part of Oslo when our new citizens (muslims) started to become the majority of this part, was an interesting experience. Many people who had lived there in generations was now pushed out and did not feel welcome anymore. How would you felt if you where invaded in such way? Kids established gangs, drugs, robberies, women was harrassed, etc

 

It is easy to distance yourself from it, because you do not live there, and I did not live there myself, I was just a security working day and night. 

I'll say it again. My reaction to people is not driven by race or colour but by behaviour. That should be the case for most normal people. See my edited post above.

Edited June 26, 2023 by ozimoron

[Hummin]

23 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I'll say it again. My reaction to people is not driven by race or colour but by behaviour. That should be the case for most normal people. See my edited post above.

And my experience, remember we all speak by experience as well available researches and what we read, and what we actually digest and choose to believe no matter it is true or not, we all are influnced by a mix we think are right or not.

 

When a pattern of behavior is linked to one specific ethnicity, is it racism or is it pure behaviour related? 

[Harsh Jones]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

You takes things too personally. Yes, Thais don't like farang, which we don't know when we first come here; we think they love us. 

It is in fact a condition you need counselling for. 

https://eymtherapy.com/blog/learning-to-stop-personalization/

I never thought they liked us. Especially considering how unpleasant some farangs are. But they are live and let live kind of ppl. And they are polite enough.

 

Alternatively, go to east or central Europe. People are brash, rude and total hard asses. They don't pretend to be happy. But I am Canadian and we are nice and we pretend to be happy. I think a lot of Canadians are actually happy to a point. Fake it to make it.

 

I remember walking into a bank in Poland. And the teller is just looked down, hardly recognized that I was there. And just barked at me when we had to communicate. They don't hide anything. And this happened in Germany, Holland, Romania, everywhere. A Polish guy asked for directions to me. I politely responded in English. His response was "Polski Polski, blah blah!" He swore at me in Polish and threw up his hands like I was an idiot. I learned quite well how to be a European. A week into it and I started acting like them. Anyone who asked me anything, I shooed out of the way with my arms. 

 

I felt like such an idiot for being a polite Canadian in Europe. But then we went to Thailand right after, and I had to reverse back to being more Canadian. Because the ppl are just far more polite and decent