Two deaths linked with cannabis use and violent incidents reported in recent days by Thai police

[pomchop]

News Flash:  A man doing meth and drinking a cup of coffee goes berserk.  Police lay blame on the caffeine in the coffee as man was in an agitated state.

[bamnutsak]

1 minute ago, jonclark said:

And where were Thai social services.

For drugs? Very limited.

 

For the most part Prisons are used. 80% of those incarcerated are for drugs. With the majority for methamphetamine. All the cannabis prisoners were freed (~ 4,000). So 210,000 - 230,000 inmates for meth.

 

Holding more than one tablet of meth is now a serious offense.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/thailand-toughen-rules-methamphetamine-pill-possession-2023-02-03/

 

Forget about the violent death toll associated with meth, the long-term health consequences and the cost to society not limited to the Bureau of Prisons, is staggering. But this massive problem is difficult to deal (and also tramadol, ketamine, crystal meth, mdma)  with, so it is easy to get distracted by cannabis.

 

[stoner]

11 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

marijuana may not be responsible for violent behavior, but it's debatable whether marijuana is safe for 14 year olds. 

if they want to keep it legal, there needs to be a massive education campaign to inform youth that perhaps it's not safe to consume at such a young age. 

 

a few exceptions for medical use can be made but other than that absolutely not safe for 14 year olds. 

 

totally agree with you. education is key. 

[notrub]

Beginning of the end (of weed freedom)?  Legalizing weed without forethought has brought some problems.  Children smoking in a doorway on a busy street, for example.  Fast forward or backwards (suit yerself) same kids with a plastic bag full of glue.  Focusing on weed and not the social circumstances suffered by street waifs is typical of those with a hidden agenda that requires manipulation of public opinion to be acceptable.  Let's hope the war on drugs is focused on meth, not weed.????

[Gecko123]

This news report is evidence that:

 

1. Under age youth do not seem to have much difficultly getting their hands on ganja. (Arguments that restricting access to those over 21 solves the underage problem are disingenuous as everyone knows that the police do not have the resources to control access, especially when sales distribution controls are lax. ASEANNOW's cannabis enthusiasts needs to think about Thailand's youth and educational development.)

 

2. Cannabis is often used in conjunction with other intoxicants which can exacerbate undesirable behaviors, including while operating motor vehicles and heavy equipment. (ASEANNOW's cannabis enthusiasts need to get their heads out of the sand and acknowledge that cannabis isn't consumed in isolation and is often used in tandem with other drugs and alcohol which can exacerbate the level of intoxication and undesirable behavior.)

 

3. Increased experimentation with any drug is going to increase the likelihood of further drug experimentation. These two cases, even if they were highlighted as part of an anti-cannabis political agenda, are evidence that the use of recreational drugs increases the likelihood of further experimentation with other drugs. Maybe not for everyone, but for a significant portion of drug users. 

 

It's constantly restated on this forum that cannabis is not a gateway drug, despite the fact that anyone who grew up in the West has observed a steady increase in the consumption of drugs with the vast majority of people probably starting out with marijuana because of its availability and social acceptability. (ASEANNOW's cannabis enthusiasts seem to be singularly focused on how much they enjoy cannabis as part of their lifestyle and seem to give little thought to the welfare of their host country and whether it is detrimental to Thailand's youth, road safety, educational development, and general social progress.)

Edited June 28, 2023 by Gecko123

[jacko45k]

25 minutes ago, pomchop said:

News Flash:  A man doing meth and drinking a cup of coffee goes berserk.  Police lay blame on the caffeine in the coffee as man was in an agitated state.

News Flash:  A man doing weed and drinking a cup of coffee goes berserk.  Some Asian Now posters lay blame on the caffeine in the coffee as man was in an agitated state.

(Those Starbucks prices eh!)

Edited June 28, 2023 by jacko45k

[bamnutsak]

16 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

This news report is evidence that:

This entire manifesto could be written replacing 

 

16 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

ASEANNOW's cannabis enthusiasts

with ASEANNOW alcohol enthusiasts.

 

 

The age restriction on cannabis sales is appropriate, and needs to be enforced. There are age restrictions on alcohol and tobacco. Retail distribution needs to be more tightly licensed and controlled. The police have the resources to do this. Claiming something can't be enforced is not an acceptable argument. 

 

20 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

ASEANNOW's cannabis enthusiasts needs to think about Thailand's youth and educational development.

So no we're responsible for Thailand's youth and their education? That's nuts.

 

22 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Cannabis is often used in conjunction with other intoxicants which can exacerbate undesirable behaviors

You need to back that claim up.

 

22 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Increased experimentation with any drug is going to increase the likelihood of further drug experimentation.

Another spurious, off the cuff claim which needs to be supported.

 

23 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

It's constantly restated on this forum that cannabis is not a gateway drug

Prove that it is. Yes, some people start off with one thing, and then try other things. I'd submit that nicotine and alcohol are the number one/two gateway drugs, given their wide availability, low price and societal acceptance. But in Thailand there is only one gateway drug: methamphetamine.

 

 

You seem to think that Cannabis liberalization one year ago is detrimental to Thai society, based on some illegitimate assumptions and three "Stories" in the press. I question your original point, and most if not all of your supporting arguments.

 

It is interesting that the alcohol liberalization started last year, which has resulted in a far greater explosion of craft beer retail availability hasn't garnered the same outrage.

 

I get that people want easy solutions to complex problems. And if you really think re-listing cannabis as a narcotic, having the police spend time enforcing cannabis narcotics laws, building more prisons will help solve Thailand's societal woes - which apparently didn't exist prior to cannabis liberalization last year - then I say go for it. Let's see what happens, and how much better things will be, again.

 

 

 

[Tropicalevo]

What is it that the gun lobby say?

Guns are safe, it is the people holding them that are dangerous.

Same with marijuana.

The plants are safe, it is the smokers that are dangerous.

Many times lately I have checked guests out of their villas (very tricky as they are as high as kites) and then they get on motorbikes and drive off.

Safe? Not.

[pomchop]

48 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

News Flash:  A man doing weed and drinking a cup of coffee goes berserk.  Some Asian Now posters lay blame on the caffeine in the coffee as man was in an agitated state.

(Those Starbucks prices eh!)

never one time have i personally observed a pot smoker go "berserk" and i have been around a lot of pot smokers...is it possible?  sure.  is it probable?  I would say no. 

 

Have I seen people go "berserk" without their caffeine fixes?  Not sure about berserk but sure in a very agitated state.

 

By far the worst of the worst most addictive drugs i have been around was/is nicotine....that is one evil drug that has hooked and ultimately screwed up or killed millions upon millions of people for centuries.  Fortunately it seems to be fading somewhat thanks to a ton of educational attempts to keep the kids away along with restrictions on use, high prices, and a slow change in public opinion. 

 

But of course several big corps now  are getting kids hooked on nicotine vapes by making candy flavors and trying to make it a "cool" thing to do.  Getting hooked on nicotine is many things but as most addicted people know it is not a lot of fun and can be pure hell to break the habit.

[bamnutsak]

3 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

Many times lately I have checked guests out of their villas (very tricky as they are as high as kites) and then they get on motorbikes and drive off.

Safe? Not.

Operating a vehicle while under the influence is against the law.

 

If you are concerned with their behavior then you should contact the police. 

 

And you should implement, and enforce a strict no smoking policy for your property. I suspect you've chosen not to do this for financial reasons.

 

 

[fondue zoo]

2 hours ago, gargamon said:

There is nothing that mixes well with meth. 

More meth it seems

[Bday Prang]

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

marijuana may not be responsible for violent behavior, but it's debatable whether marijuana is safe for 14 year olds. 

if they want to keep it legal, there needs to be a massive education campaign to inform youth that perhaps it's not safe to consume at such a young age. 

 

but with the return to illegality any form of education will stop, thats if it even started

[Bday Prang]

32 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

What is it that the gun lobby say?

Guns are safe, it is the people holding them that are dangerous.

Same with marijuana.

The plants are safe, it is the smokers that are dangerous.

Many times lately I have checked guests out of their villas (very tricky as they are as high as kites) and then they get on motorbikes and drive off.

Safe? Not.

And would you also encourage drunken guests to drive off on their motorbikes too ?   Very irresponsible behaviour indeed on your part, if it's even true. Please inform the name of your "resort" so that right minded people can avoid it

[Don Chance]

"Common marijuana psychosis symptoms are paranoid delusions, suspiciousness, and a sense of grandiosity. Other potential symptoms include hallucinations, dissociation or a feeling of detachment and unreality, disorganized and disturbed thoughts, inappropriate emotional responses, and unusual changes in behavior."

LINK

 

Marijuana works by causing dissociation. This is the high that people enjoy so much. It takes you away from yourself. This is why it can cause some pain relief. So if someone is already suffering from psychosis or mental problems marijuana will make it worse.

The other issue in Thailand is that many people already have magical  thinking. They already have strange ideas that do not follow logic. Superstition, religious idealism.

 

So people making fun of the story i think are wrong. And this is typical of addicts, they are deluded about the true effects of the drug they are on.

[bamnutsak]

2 hours ago, save the frogs said:

but it's debatable whether marijuana is safe for 14 year olds. 
if they want to keep it legal, there needs to be a massive education campaign to inform youth that perhaps it's not safe to consume at such a young age. 

No, it's not debatable. Cannabis is NOT safe for 14-year-olds, unless it is part of a Doctor-regulated treatment plan.

 

No one is advocating cannabis use for 14-year-olds.

 

 

I'm sure the massive education campaign for cannabis could be added to the one they (don't) have now, for methamphetamine and other hard rugs? Right?

[bamnutsak]

8 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

"Common marijuana psychosis symptoms are paranoid delusions, suspiciousness, and a sense of grandiosity. Other potential symptoms include hallucinations, dissociation or a feeling of detachment and unreality, disorganized and disturbed thoughts, inappropriate emotional responses, and unusual changes in behavior."

Cannabis might increase the effects of the underlying mental illness(es) like psychosis and paranoia. It certainly doesn't 'cause' them in previously unaffected individuals.

 

But thanks for the link to the drug treatment center.

 

9 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

So people making fun of the story i think are wrong. And this is typical of addicts, they are deluded about the true effects of the drug they are on.

No one is making "fun" of this sad and tragic story. What an odd thing to say? The rest of your insult can be chalked up to incompetence in making a cogent argument. 

[stoner]

17 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

The other issue in Thailand is that many people already have magical  thinking. They already have strange ideas that do not follow logic. Superstition, religious idealism.

what does any of this have to do with cannabis use ? you are talking about the culture. best open a thai culture and its effects on the youth thread. 

[Bday Prang]

16 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

"Common marijuana psychosis symptoms are paranoid delusions, suspiciousness, and a sense of grandiosity. Other potential symptoms include hallucinations, dissociation or a feeling of detachment and unreality, disorganized and disturbed thoughts, inappropriate emotional responses, and unusual changes in behavior."

LINK

 

Marijuana works by causing dissociation. This is the high that people enjoy so much. It takes you away from yourself. This is why it can cause some pain relief. So if someone is already suffering from psychosis or mental problems marijuana will make it worse.

The other issue in Thailand is that many people already have magical  thinking. They already have strange ideas that do not follow logic. Superstition, religious idealism.

 

So people making fun of the story i think are wrong. And this is typical of addicts, they are deluded about the true effects of the drug they are on.

So illogical religious idealism and superstition are unique to Thailand ? what a bizarre statement millions of christians and muslims might not agree with you.

[bignok]

3 hours ago, gargamon said:

So the guy was taking meth and also smoked some marijuana, and they blame the marijuana for his murder spree? Wow. Somebody's got an agenda here. 

Both are bad. Meth makes you aggressive, pot makes you dopey. 

[Bday Prang]

20 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

"Common marijuana psychosis symptoms are paranoid delusions, suspiciousness, and a sense of grandiosity. Other potential symptoms include hallucinations, dissociation or a feeling of detachment and unreality, disorganized and disturbed thoughts, inappropriate emotional responses, and unusual changes in behavior."

LINK

 

Marijuana works by causing dissociation. This is the high that people enjoy so much. It takes you away from yourself. This is why it can cause some pain relief. So if someone is already suffering from psychosis or mental problems marijuana will make it worse.

The other issue in Thailand is that many people already have magical  thinking. They already have strange ideas that do not follow logic. Superstition, religious idealism.

 

So people making fun of the story i think are wrong. And this is typical of addicts, they are deluded about the true effects of the drug they are on.

A link to a private and no doubt rather expensive clinic,  well that just has to be true doesn't it?

"addicts" !   you really have no idea at all do you, better to stick to commenting on subjects that you actually know something about, rather than spouting rubbish "supported" by spurious links

[ozz1]

Up here in issan I've seen more people die from lao whiskey than anything but they still keep drinking it no one cares

[Bday Prang]

Just now, bignok said:

Both are bad. Meth makes you aggressive, pot makes you dopey. 

Alcohol does both, don't see many on here suggesting it should be banned or even questioning the ineffectiveness of the age limits regarding purchase and consumption.

Have you ever used either alcohol or amphetamine ?  no need to answer as you obviously haven't, 

[Bday Prang]

31 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

Common marijuana psychosis symptoms are paranoid delusions, suspiciousness, and a sense of grandiosity. Other potential symptoms include hallucinations, dissociation or a feeling of detachment and unreality, disorganized and disturbed thoughts, inappropriate emotional responses, and unusual changes in behavior."

Probably the biggest load of rubbish I have ever read in my life, you really need to be more selective when  (mis)"informing" yourself

[bignok]

3 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Have you ever used either alcohol or amphetamine ?  no need to answer as you obviously haven't, 

What a silly comment.

[bignok]

34 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

"Common marijuana psychosis symptoms are paranoid delusions, suspiciousness, and a sense of grandiosity. Other potential symptoms include hallucinations, dissociation or a feeling of detachment and unreality, disorganized and disturbed thoughts, inappropriate emotional responses, and unusual changes in behavior."

LINK

 

Marijuana works by causing dissociation. This is the high that people enjoy so much. It takes you away from yourself. This is why it can cause some pain relief. So if someone is already suffering from psychosis or mental problems marijuana will make it worse.

The other issue in Thailand is that many people already have magical  thinking. They already have strange ideas that do not follow logic. Superstition, religious idealism.

 

So people making fun of the story i think are wrong. And this is typical of addicts, they are deluded about the true effects of the drug they are on.

Correct. Pot does make people worse if underlying issues.

[Bday Prang]

1 hour ago, Tropicalevo said:

What is it that the gun lobby say?

Guns are safe, it is the people holding them that are dangerous.

Same with marijuana.

The plants are safe, it is the smokers that are dangerous.

Many times lately I have checked guests out of their villas (very tricky as they are as high as kites) and then they get on motorbikes and drive off.

Safe? Not.

Surely a simple sign explaining your house rules would alleviate whatever problems these people allegedly cause when they are as "high as kites" whatever that actually means.  Why not get some printed out and leave them in the rooms to inform people of your prejudices.  Do you have a website? you could mention it on there too.   make it the next thing you do , once you have sobered up

[bamnutsak]

1 minute ago, ozz1 said:

Up here in issan I've seen more people die from lao whiskey than anything but they still keep drinking it no one cares

The leading cause of death here for minors is drowning, followed closely by personal transport.

 

No one is advocating banning water. Better to teach swimming.

 

No one is advocating a return to walking or bicycles. Just education, safety and adherence to basic traffic laws/rules.

 

 

I get that some people are freaked out by Cannabis normalization, but I'd much rather have my child experimenting with cannabis than methamphetamine, (or nicotine or alcohol) given that simple binary choice. 

 

People love to Google for the scariest cannabis article, study they can find and post it here thinking they're performing some civic duty. I'd ask that they also post a companion methamphetamine article or study. Especially the one's which highlight all the benefits of methamphetamine use.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bday Prang]

6 minutes ago, bignok said:

What a silly comment.

it was as question,  easily identified by the "?"  

[SABloke]

The headline might as well read "Two deaths linked to wearing a shirt...". As relevant as linking the marijuana ????

Edited June 28, 2023 by SABloke

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, gargamon said:

So the guy was taking meth and also smoked some marijuana, and they blame the marijuana for his murder spree? Wow. Somebody's got an agenda here. 

Obviously reefer madness level.

Was drinking milk linked to the crimes as well?