Divorce and runaway kids

[2008bangkok]

Me and my wife recently divorced after 16 years at the amphur, the agreement which is written on the divorce papers documents was she has full guardianship of our daughter and I do of our son.

 

Unfortunately my son takes it hard and is also very jealous of my daughter living with the mum so at every opportunity after an argument ie, clean your bedroom, or I'm having a couple of beers on the patio he runs off to his mother's and doesn't come back and blocks me on chat.

 

I understand he would prefer to live with them as they all speak Thai, still part of the family albeit without me and still has my daughter as company.

If I thought in the long term this would be better for him then I would just leave it, but my ex wife while looking like a loving mum is only intelligent enough to make sure he has basic care, forget things like education etc.

So although it seems as I am being cruel I firmly believe it's in his best interests in the long term at 14 to be with his Dad.

 

She is so immature that she won't talk to me or do what is right to stop all this and immediately send him back to me. So shows what she is like.

 

I guess my question is does anybody know that the guardianship amphur papers are actually binding and she has no right at all to have him at her house, just like I don't with our daughter and it would be like a random person harbouring my son.

I do feel for the kids in all this, I would be more than happy to just act like a normal divorced couple who get along, perhaps go out as a full family now and again, she seems hell bent on this not happening and messing the kids heads up.

 

 

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

Binding or not, if he choses to keep leaving, especially with an uncooperating ex, so not much you can do about it.  

Edited June 30, 2023 by KhunLA

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Binding or not, if he choses to keep leaving, especially with an uncooperating ex, so not much you can do about it.  

 

Curious ... How old is he ?

14

[Yellowtail]

You have contempt for your wife, and you are surprised she does not want to talk to you. 

 

If he blocks you, quit paying his phone bill. 

 

 

[LS24]

Do you speak Thai? How do you communicate with your son? Did he get talk English growing up?

[Dante99]

You want your ex-wife to be someone she is not and you want your son to be someone he is not and you think it is their fault that they are not.

 

Better if you can find a way to deal with what they are and what you are.  The legal route is not going to resolve interpersonal differences.

[2008bangkok]

19 minutes ago, LS24 said:

Do you speak Thai? How do you communicate with your son? Did he get talk English growing up?

LOL

I don't speak Thai no but I communicate with him in English as we both been living together for nearly 15 years. So he speaks fluent Thai and English.

[2008bangkok]

5 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

You want your ex-wife to be someone she is not and you want your son to be someone he is not and you think it is their fault that they are not.

 

Better if you can find a way to deal with what they are and what you are.  The legal route is not going to resolve interpersonal differences.

Dude are you serious?

So don't push my kid to be better just let him be and end up earning 15k a month as a Thai doing crappy jobs all his life.

Thats mad chat that reply

[kingkenny]

I divorced recently and kept full custody via the ampur of my 2 sons, thankfully my ex still sees them occasionally, they can stay with her occasionally also, I have no issues with this and as my sons are younger there is no running off to be with their mum, quite the opposite in fact, whilst with her they call me and ask when they can come home (She doesn't mistreat them, they just prefer to be in a comfy house rather than her small condo). 

 

To answer your question, and I could be wrong, my belief is it is legally binding and if she refuses to send the kids home, or if she disappears with them (the terms do say she can only see them with my permission after giving reasonable notice, I wrote the terms) then I can enforce it via the police.

 

It was also nice producing the document at the airport when I was taking my sons overseas and immigration insisted they had to call her, they soon backed down on that when they saw the document so it must hold some power.

[2008bangkok]

11 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

I divorced recently and kept full custody via the ampur of my 2 sons, thankfully my ex still sees them occasionally, they can stay with her occasionally also, I have no issues with this and as my sons are younger there is no running off to be with their mum, quite the opposite in fact, whilst with her they call me and ask when they can come home (She doesn't mistreat them, they just prefer to be in a comfy house rather than her small condo). 

 

To answer your question, and I could be wrong, my belief is it is legally binding and if she refuses to send the kids home, or if she disappears with them (the terms do say she can only see them with my permission after giving reasonable notice, I wrote the terms) then I can enforce it via the police.

 

It was also nice producing the document at the airport when I was taking my sons overseas and immigration insisted they had to call her, they soon backed down on that when they saw the document so it must hold some power.

Yes, that is a good arrangement, and good for the kids also to have balance and not the parents arguing about it.

That is what I hoped for but unfortunately not.

 

I'm sure it was very satisfying to show them the papers lol, nice one.

Atm I am currently waiting for my renewal of my visa for dependant to come back as it's currently in review stage (had that 3 years even while married) so when it does I will probably go and file a police report. All really unnecessary but you gotta do what's right.

[Yellowtail]

16 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

I divorced recently and kept full custody via the ampur of my 2 sons, thankfully my ex still sees them occasionally, they can stay with her occasionally also, I have no issues with this and as my sons are younger there is no running off to be with their mum, quite the opposite in fact, whilst with her they call me and ask when they can come home (She doesn't mistreat them, they just prefer to be in a comfy house rather than her small condo). 

 

To answer your question, and I could be wrong, my belief is it is legally binding and if she refuses to send the kids home, or if she disappears with them (the terms do say she can only see them with my permission after giving reasonable notice, I wrote the terms) then I can enforce it via the police.

 

It was also nice producing the document at the airport when I was taking my sons overseas and immigration insisted they had to call her, they soon backed down on that when they saw the document so it must hold some power.

Why would she be required to send her son home when he comes to visit? 

 

Would it not be the responsibility of the custodian to go and get them? 

[kingkenny]

2 minutes ago, 2008bangkok said:

Yes, that is a good arrangement, and good for the kids also to have balance and not the parents arguing about it.

That is what I hoped for but unfortunately not.

 

I'm sure it was very satisfying to show them the papers lol, nice one.

Atm I am currently waiting for my renewal of my visa for dependant to come back as it's currently in review stage (had that 3 years even while married) so when it does I will probably go and file a police report. All really unnecessary but you gotta do what's right.

For me, I would only get the police involved if she was being difficult about returning my sons to me, once that happens its a more slippery slope but I trust that you know more about this particular situation than me, and unless I am put in that situation then I can't honestly say how I would handle it. Good luck, hope it all works out.

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, 2008bangkok said:

Yes, that is a good arrangement, and good for the kids also to have balance and not the parents arguing about it.

That is what I hoped for but unfortunately not.

 

I'm sure it was very satisfying to show them the papers lol, nice one.

Atm I am currently waiting for my renewal of my visa for dependant to come back as it's currently in review stage (had that 3 years even while married) so when it does I will probably go and file a police report. All really unnecessary but you gotta do what's right.

Maybe go file the police report before you have those beers on the patio. 

[kingkenny]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Why would she be required to send her son home when he comes to visit? 

 

Would it not be the responsibility of the custodian to go and get them? 

Semantics and pedantry, either she drops them off or I pick them up, its not a fixed arrangement and depends on various circumstances, its easy for us because she lives within a few km, its not about a long trip to get them. The main fact is I have full custody and she can see them with my permission, that could be for a week, a month, a day, its not a fixed time, however if she turned bandit and decides to keep them (this might help with this wording) then I would act.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, kingkenny said:

Semantics and pedantry, either she drops them off or I pick them up, its not a fixed arrangement and depends on various circumstances, its easy for us because she lives within a few km, its not about a long trip to get them. The main fact is I have full custody and she can see them with my permission, that could be for a week, a month, a day, its not a fixed time, however if she turned bandit and decides to keep them (this might help with this wording) then I would act.

I was not talking about you and your situation, I was talking about the OPs situation where the kid goes to his mother's, and the OP expects the mother to kick her kid out. 

 

What good will come of that? 

[2008bangkok]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I was not talking about you and your situation, I was talking about the OPs situation where the kid goes to his mother's, and the OP expects the mother to kick her kid out. 

 

What good will come of that? 

No1, I don't know where she lives and the kids have been told not to tell me but I do know that it's within a mile away and when everything was Ok he would ride up there on his bike, so it's not a problem to send him home,it's actually nearer than his ride to school.

No2. I am really trying to keep my cool as I know from experience of living here a long time the police dealing with Thai v Farang they will try there hardest to side with the Thais.

So trying my hardest to not go down that route.

[BritManToo]

22 minutes ago, 2008bangkok said:

I'm sure it was very satisfying to show them the papers lol, nice one.

Atm I am currently waiting for my renewal of my visa for dependant to come back as it's currently in review stage (had that 3 years even while married) so when it does I will probably go and file a police report. All really unnecessary but you gotta do what's right.

If the kid's no longer living with you, your VISA extension will be invalid.

Best not to go to the police and admit he's left IMHO.

They'll call immigration, then you'll be gone.

 

At age 15 kids in Thailand can effectively choose where they want to live without any parental consent.

Edited June 30, 2023 by BritManToo

[kingkenny]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If the kid's no longer living with you, your VISA extension will be invalid.

Best not to go to the police and admit he's left IMHO.

They'll call immigration, then you'll be gone.

The point is however according to his Ampur papers the child can't leave as he has full custody, the police responsibility will be to handle that, not his visa status bases on the child living with his mum against a legal document that both parties entered into. This is all the more reason to ensure that agreement is kept.

[2008bangkok]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If the kid's no longer living with you, your VISA extension will be invalid.

Best not to go to the police and admit he's left IMHO.

They'll call immigration, then you'll be gone.

I have thought about that yes and it is a worry.

But I have come to the conclusion that even in this country they would not cancel a visa of a legal guardian based on an unruly teenager running off to his mother's when he gets a trantrum and feels like it.

I'm sure that would be unlawful.

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

The point is however according to his Ampur papers the child can't leave as he has full custody, the police responsibility will be to handle that, not his visa status bases on the child living with his mum against a legal document that both parties entered into. This is all the more reason to ensure that agreement is kept.

At age 15 he can make his own choices and nobody will enforce any papers.

(OP hasn't declared how close to 15 the boy is)

The VISA extension will have 'defacto' as a get out clause, which the Thais will prefer to enforce on a 'problem' foreigner.

Edited June 30, 2023 by BritManToo

[2008bangkok]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

At age 15 he can make his own choices and nobody will enforce any papers.

(OP hasn't declared how close to 15 the boy is)

The VISA extension will have 'defacto' as a get out clause, which the Thais will prefer to enforce on a 'problem' foreigner.

Actually that is not true at all, when a child is 15 and the parents get divorced the court will take into consideration who he wants to live with and have custody, not decide yourself at 15 who you want to live when guardianship has already been agreed.

The guardianship finsiws at either 18 or 19.

That is my understanding anyway.

[kingkenny]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

At age 15 he can make his own choices and nobody will enforce any papers.

(OP hasn't declared how close to 15 the boy is)

The VISA extension will have 'defacto' as a get out clause, which the Thais will prefer to enforce on a 'problem' foreigner.

Lot's of 'guesswork' in this post my friend. Can you provide proof for any of these claims such as mysterious defacto clauses and problem farangs i.e a foreigner with a legal right trying to do the right thing, and the 'Thais' that you mention assuming that none of them will actually do their job?

 

Edited to add the below:

 

The child is subject to parental control of the parents until the child is legally determined to be an adult. Adulthood occurs when the child reaches the age of majority which is 20 years old in Thailand or when the child gets married. Until this time, parents have rights and obligations to their child.

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

Lot's of 'guesswork' in this post my friend. Can you provide proof for any of these claims such as mysterious defacto clauses and problem farangs i.e a foreigner with a legal right trying to do the right thing, and the 'Thais' that you mention assuming that none of them will actually do their job?

Easier to wait for the OP to report to the police and see what happens next.

Trying to force a teenage Thai boy to live with a guy he doesn't like (while his mom empowers him) will be like banging your head against a brick wall that hits back.

 

The OP just doesn't have realistic expectations on the outcome of this situation.

Edited June 30, 2023 by BritManToo

[patman30]

why did you split the kids up?
why did you not also take your daughter if education was your concern?
what are you personally teaching your son that he would not learn otherwise?
obviously he objects to your drinking, why do you persist to consume?
at 14 he is basically becoming a man and will make his own decisions
There is a lot more to this than simply blaming your ex-wife and your son,
If he does not want to stay with you and wants to be with family, it may be in your sons interest for you to find a better solution.
don't forget his hormones should be raging right about now and you are his closest competition

[Yellowtail]

How does the OP visit his daughter if he does no know where the mother lives? 

 

I think the OP should try to make things right with the wife. 

[2008bangkok]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Easier to wait for the OP to report to the police and see what happens next.

Trying to force a teenage Thai boy to live with a guy he doesn't like (while his mom empowers him) will be like banging your head against a brick wall that hits back.

Well, I didn't want to go into specifics but it's not the case of trying to force anybody, for example 2 weeks ago when we sat down I flat out asked him if he was happy living with me - yes, would you be happy if we moved a bit further away from mummy but you can see her when you want - yes, would you be happy if we moved back to the UK in the future - yes.

Then as soon as the unruly teenager kicks in and ask him to do some chores or God forbid take his phone off him all hell breaks loose.

So it's about managing a difficult situation not trying to keep him as a slave for my own satisfaction 

[patman30]

27 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If the kid's no longer living with you, your VISA extension will be invalid.

Best not to go to the police and admit he's left IMHO.

They'll call immigration, then you'll be gone.

 

At age 15 kids in Thailand can effectively choose where they want to live without any parental consent.

Thanks @BritManToo this answers a lot.

[kingkenny]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Easier to wait for the OP to report to the police and see what happens next.

Trying to force a teenage Thai boy to live with a guy he doesn't like (while his mom empowers him) will be like banging your head against a brick wall that hits back.

ah so you have basically woke up this morning and decided to post a load of nonsense.

 

Its not about trying to force the boy, its about accepting a legally binding a agreement that the son lives with his father and all the crying or Thainess in the world does not change this fact, Sure the boy might run away again blah blah blah blah.

 

On another note, when I moved here 19 years ago I did not see a counter at the airport where we are supposed to surrender our testicles and just bow down to our Thai overlords, is this a relatively new counter?

[kingkenny]

52 minutes ago, patman30 said:

Thanks @BritManToo this answers a lot.

It answers nothing, its useless diatribe.

 

The child is subject to parental control of the parents until the child is legally determined to be an adult. Adulthood occurs when the child reaches the age of majority which is 20 years old in Thailand or when the child gets married. Until this time, parents have rights and obligations to their child.

In this instance the father has legal custody of the child. 

[patman30]

51 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

It answers nothing, its useless diatribe.

 

The child is subject to parental control of the parents until the child is legally determined to be an adult. Adulthood occurs when the child reaches the age of majority which is 20 years old in Thailand or when the child gets married. Until this time, parents have rights and obligations to their child.

In this instance the father has legal custody of the child. 

There was more than 1 point being made in the reply i quoted
and you sadly cherry picked the wrong one.
no need for flooding the thread with large text
i read it first time you posted it.

Edited June 30, 2023 by onthedarkside
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