In Total, 64 Deaths in 4 Months From Phuket Road Accidents

[thailand49]

Nothing will ever change as long as this system is in place! 

To start consider it as an epidemic declare martial law for this problem put an foreign entity in charge with unlimited power to remove anyone who tries to circumvent the system to enforce. 

Without that type of beginning daily reports like this will continue. 

[ChipButty]

the only thing that has changed here in Phuket in the last 20+ years the roads have got wider and bigger and the invitation to go faster, so i guess speed does kill.

 

surely there is a need for speed cameras, i can hear in the night big bikes using it as a race track down here in Rawai, 

That has always made me laugh when the police stop you at their road blocks, no helmet, no license fine you and let you ride off, the bike should be taken off them, 

the rental shops should be taken a look at, I recently spoke with a farang tourist who had rented a car without a license, not a very smart move by the rental company, 

 

 

[pelagicpete]

One factor that is not mentioned very often is the 'time of day'.

The large global companies that have employees around the world often have an employment rule that bans the use of company vehicles between the hours of 6pm and 6am.

Statistically this is the time of maximum danger.

This may be a useful pointer for tourists and expats in Thailand.

Taxi services are a better bet for health and cost.

[Road Warrior]

5 hours ago, Classic Ray said:

No mention of any measures to reduce the toll like increased police patrols to deter speeders, drunk drivers and non-helmet wearers, increased training for drivers or examinations of collision black spots to improve road engineering.

 

Why, because nothing will be done, it’s mostly the poor who suffer and they don’t count.

do agree 100%

[Almer]

6 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

The Thai system is that he has spoken, made his recommendations, and his job is done. Anything that happens later is not his responsibility. You, I, he and everyone else knows that what is said will be ignored and will not be enforced, but that is not the point. He has acted, done what he considers to be his job, while actually doing nothing. This happens all the time, at least once a week. Someone makes a declaration and the next day it's ignored and forgotten. But that person has done their job by 'acting'.

Yep that is how it is, a man in authority calls a meeting states the obvious and, job done, shameful on many counts. 

Just stop going to Phuket. 

[Almer]

2 hours ago, pelagicpete said:

One factor that is not mentioned very often is the 'time of day'.

The large global companies that have employees around the world often have an employment rule that bans the use of company vehicles between the hours of 6pm and 6am.

Statistically this is the time of maximum danger.

This may be a useful pointer for tourists and expats in Thailand.

Taxi services are a better bet for health and cost.

You feel safe in a taxi!!! 

[kwilco]

7 hours ago, kennw said:

Road law enforcement!

I specifically use the word holistic.

Many people cite single issues as if they are the "solution" but the reality is that the whole driving environment needs to be understood and totally reformed.

You also might consider how to carry out road law enforcement and what is entails in practical terms.

For a start, you need to reform the police...the is a constitutional issue ...there are also many other factors just on that one single aspect you mention.

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, Almer said:

You feel safe in a taxi!!! 

As about 75% of deaths are motorcyclists and passengers, in a 4 wheeled vehicle, you are in fact less likely to die than in a 4 wheeled vehivke in the USA.

[joloit]

6 hours ago, KhunLA said:

If ever driven around Phuket, and seen some of these tourist on motorbikes, I'm surprised we do see a lot more 'Go Fund my Stupidity' threads.

 

Inexperienced, unconfident, shaky, all over the road novice driver's, obviously unlicensed and without helmets on.

 

It's mind boggling.  Luckily the locals are well experienced in avoiding having accidents with them.

I agree 100% to your first 2 paragraphs..... but "experienced locals"? ... I do have my doubts on that one, sorry.

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

As about 75% of deaths are motorcyclists and passengers, in a 4 wheeled vehicle, you are in fact less likely to die than in a 4 wheeled vehivke in the USA.

I actually feel safer on motorcycle here/TH, than in the USA.  Since so many here, people are aware of them, vs USA, where they are not or simply don't respect them, look for them or give them space, since most have never ridden one.

[SunsetT]

Ganja!

[kwilco]

6 hours ago, nchuckle said:

The locals seem not to learn from the experience of crashing into each other though. The tourists seem to leave their good senses behind when "holiday brain" takes over and they suddenly think that wearing helmets etc. rules/consequences are miraculously suspended because they’re "on holiday " and everyone else is doing it.

totally archaic and misinformed assessment of the situation - this is typical of foriegners and  does nothing to change the situation.

[kwilco]

30 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I actually feel safer on motorcycle here/TH, than in the USA.  Since so many here, people are aware of them, vs USA, where they are not or simply don't respect them, look for them or give them space, since most have never ridden one.

Not sure whatthet proves - purely subjective and anecdotal comments.

[Chongalulu]

6 minutes ago, kwilco said:

totally archaic and misinformed assessment of the situation - this is typical of foriegners and  does nothing to change the situation.

Yet you can produce no substantiated counter argument …? 
The RTA figures for Thailand (25,000 deaths per annum) are a substantial support of mine however.

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

Not sure whatthet proves - purely subjective and anecdotal comments.

you did bring USA into the conversation....

... car for car, per capita, maybe safer here

... scooter for scooter per capita, maybe safer here also

 

USA Still off topic though.  Figure I'd give the Thai bashing a break also ... ????

[Chongalulu]

36 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I actually feel safer on motorcycle here/TH, than in the USA.  Since so many here, people are aware of them, vs USA, where they are not or simply don't respect them, look for them or give them space, since most have never ridden one.

How you 'feel' is a poor argument in the face of the actual statistics .

[KhunLA]

11 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

How you 'feel' is a poor argument in the face of the actual statistics .

I know more people that got killed on a MC in the USA, than here, and I know at least 10X as many people here that use MCs everyday.  USA, except for me, riding MCs was seasonal among the people I knew that got killed.

 

Unless snow or ice on the roads, rare, I rode my MC to work.

 

That's stats enough for me.

 

I'm been cut off on a MC in the USA, more than here.

 

Obviously more die here, do their lack of helmet wearing, and reckless drivers.

Edited July 5, 2023 by KhunLA

[kwilco]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

you did bring USA into the conversation....

... car for car, per capita, maybe safer here

... scooter for scooter per capita, maybe safer here also

 

USA Still off topic though.  Figure I'd give the Thai bashing a break also ... ????

No I was taking statistically - people make unsubstantiated comments about "driving" in Thailand and claim it is "dangerous" - but in comparison the USA is actually MORE dangerous for =drivers of 4-wheeled vehicles - this is to give perspective to the perception that driving in Thailand is always dangerous - few people would suggest the the USA is n=more dangerous.

Another "fact" that people like to cite is the involvement of alcohol in crashes - in Thailand it is around 33% - in the USA it is 31% so no significant difference there either...in UK and other European countries it is below 20%..

The reason for the comparison is to give perspective and also to show how a scientific approach to road safety can work. Many countries are now going for "vison zero" - a no fatality solution.

Making up stories about how "other" drivers behave is not only nonconstructive but inaccurate..

One needs to understand what "human error" actually is and that it applies universally regardless of race.

Once this is understood it is possible to address road safety as a public health issue.

To see this isn't is important to see how it is implemented around the world - BTW - in the US it isn't nationally adopted and this leaves the US with a very mediocre road safety record.

In Thailand however, it is difficult to escape from the fact that around 75% of road deaths are motorcyclists and their passengers.

 

PS - where is the "Thai bashing"? give an example.

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

No I was taking statistically - people make unsubstantiated comments about "driving" in Thailand and claim it is "dangerous" - but in comparison the USA is actually MORE dangerous for =drivers of 4-wheeled vehicles - this is to give perspective to the perception that driving in Thailand is always dangerous - few people would suggest the the USA is n=more dangerous.

Another "fact" that people like to cite is the involvement of alcohol in crashes - in Thailand it is around 33% - in the USA it is 31% so no significant difference there either...in UK and other European countries it is below 20%..

The reason for the comparison is to give perspective and also to show how a scientific approach to road safety can work. Many countries are now going for "vison zero" - a no fatality solution.

Making up stories about how "other" drivers behave is not only nonconstructive but inaccurate..

One needs to understand what "human error" actually is and that it applies universally regardless of race.

Once this is understood it is possible to address road safety as a public health issue.

To see this isn't is important to see how it is implemented around the world - BTW - in the US it isn't nationally adopted and this leaves the US with a very mediocre road safety record.

In Thailand however, it is difficult to escape from the fact that around 75% of road deaths are motorcyclists and their passengers.

 

PS - where is the "Thai bashing"? give an example.

No argument here, well, except the Thai bashing comment as it seems some live to do just that on this forum.

[3NUMBAS]

the road cambers were always bad 

[kwilco]

24 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

No argument here, well, except the Thai bashing comment as it seems some live to do just that on this forum.

I don't engage in "Thai bashing"

[kwilco]

The sooner we drop the “blame game” the better. Most accidents are NOT caused by wildly stupid drivers they are caused by simple, elemental human error.

Start by disposing of the word “driver” and replace it with “road user”

 

Blameless crash investigations ensure lessons can be learnt from every crash and near miss on Thai roads

This is a fundamental principle of the Safe System – the most effective way to address road

 Regardless of race creed or colour.

 

The term "Safe System" refers to a comprehensive approach to road safety that aims to eliminate or minimize the occurrence of road traffic deaths and serious injuries.

 

It recognizes that ALL humans make mistakes and are vulnerable to injury in a crash, and thus the whole road system should be designed to anticipate or accommodate these vulnerabilities.

 

The Safe System approach is based on four fundamental principles:

 

Safe Roads: The road infrastructure should be designed to minimize the risk of crashes and the severity of injuries in case of a crash. This includes measures such as appropriate road design, traffic calming techniques, clear signage, and separation of vulnerable road users (such as pedestrians and cyclists) from motorized traffic.

 

Safe Speeds: Speed plays a critical role in the severity of crashes and injuries. The Safe System approach emphasizes setting and enforcing appropriate speed limits that are compatible with the road environment and user behaviour. It also promotes the use of intelligent speed adaptation technologies and strategies to reduce speeding.

 

Safe Vehicles: Vehicles should be designed to protect occupants in case of a crash and mitigate the risk of injury to other road users. This involves implementing advanced safety features such as seat belts, airbags, electronic stability control, and crash avoidance technologies. The Safe System approach encourages the adoption of these safety features and promotes vehicle standards that prioritize occupant and pedestrian protection.

 

Safe Users: Human behaviour is a significant factor in road safety. The Safe System approach aims to promote responsible road user behaviour through education, awareness campaigns, and enforcement of traffic laws. It also recognizes the importance of addressing human factors such as distraction, impairment (due to alcohol, drugs, or fatigue), and non-compliance with traffic regulations.

 

 

It is best implemented through the 5 Es which were identified at an ASEAN road safety conference several years ago.

 

By implementing measures that address all aspects of the system, the aim is to create a forgiving road environment that reduces the likelihood and severity of crashes, ultimately saving lives and preventing serious injuries.

To successfully implement the Safe System, the following five principles, often referred to as the "5 Es," must be implemented:

1. Engineering: Focus on designing safe vehicles and roads.
2. Education: Emphasize road safety education in schools, through testing, public information campaigns, and lifelong learning.
3. Enforcement: Strengthen law enforcement through trained police, an effective court system, practical legislation, and penalties.
4. Emergency: Ensure the presence of well-trained first responders and establish universal emergency response systems and hospital departments.
5. Evaluation: Conduct examinations, measurements, and calibrations of crash scenes, and compile internationally recognized statistics.

If you start blaming "Thai" or "other" drivers you are actually the fault is more likely to be with your own failure to adapt to a new driving environment

 

 

[xylophone]

9 hours ago, DFPhuket said:

In all of my years I've never seen any traffic law enforced anywhere except at helmet/license checkpoints, which are alway at the same locations. Patrolling? Pulling someone over who is breaking a traffic law? Never. 

You make a good point and on more than one occasion I've been waiting at traffic lights on my scooter, complete with helmet and licence, and I have seen a police guy on a motorbike sitting next to a couple of Thais who have pulled up beside him, neither of them wearing crash helmets and he has done nothing – – I say more than one occasion but I could say I've seen this around 10 times or more.

 

I have been tempted to tap the policeman on the shoulder and point to the guys, but thought better of it because who knows what their small minds are thinking and what might happen to me.

 

There is no way whatsoever that the BIB will uphold active law enforcement and patrolling, because they are lazy, poorly trained and unsupervised.

[Chongalulu]

52 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I know more people that got killed on a MC in the USA, than here, and I know at least 10X as many people here that use MCs everyday.  USA, except for me, riding MCs was seasonal among the people I knew that got killed.

 

Unless snow or ice on the roads, rare, I rode my MC to work.

 

That's stats enough for me.

 

I'm been cut off on a MC in the USA, more than here.

 

Obviously more die here, do their lack of helmet wearing, and reckless drivers.

Anecdotal evidence of one is no substitute for properly compiled statistics. You are misguided 

[kwilco]

14 hours ago, cardinalblue said:

There is no Will to change period…intervention costs monies and the authorities don’t want to spend monies…

 

Much easier to track deaths and injuries and say how horrible they are; then move onto the next agenda item

there are several bodies in Thailand that campaign for change. butthe military based government does not have the intellect to understand the problem - they cling to the old archaic concept like many others do.

Asfor cost, the county will SAVE money if they adopt the Safe System. at present, according to the World Health Organization, road accidents in Thailand cost the country more than 500 billion baht or about 3% of the country's GDP every year. This includes the cost of medical care, lost productivity, property damage, and administrative costs. THere is also the loss of principle family earner etc....

 

 

[kwilco]

5 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

the road cambers were always bad 

road construction design and engineering are all questionable throughout the country. As are the markings and traffic engineering.

[Skipalongcassidy]

20 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

You've got that the wrong way round, they had no lapse, the speeding or drunk drivers who hit them were at fault.

I see it every day... drivers assuming they have the right of way so because it's not their fault it's ok... no it's not... try driving defensively which involves being aware of everything around you.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

I see it every day... drivers assuming they have the right of way so because it's not their fault it's ok... no it's not... try driving defensively which involves being aware of everything around you.

Almost had an oops the other day, on scooter, coming out of local park, about to cross 'one way' lanes to the over pass lanes, also one way.   

 

Looked left anyway, nothing suppose to be there and there wasn't, then looked right for oncoming, 1 scooter, it pass, then I proceeded.

 

Food delivery guy blew by me from the left ... WTF ... you A-hole.  I stopped just as I started, and about 1 meter from collision.

 

Then thought to myself ... WTF ... you A-hole, how could you not look again before proceeding.  I know better.   That was a close one, as probably spooked him as much as me.  He had no time to react, if I continued.

 

Be Safe ... look, then look again, and a 3rd time would never hurt

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

I see it every day... drivers assuming they have the right of way so because it's not their fault it's ok... no it's not... try driving defensively which involves being aware of everything around you.

Oh victim blaming. A lame excuse for those that die at the hands of others irresponsibility and have followed every defense measure. Yes I have also seen it and I do 2 - 3 hours driving a day in Phuket on the School runs and other destinations

Edited July 6, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[bignok]

22 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

You've got that the wrong way round, they had no lapse, the speeding or drunk drivers who hit them were at fault.

Impossible to know unless you were there. Defensive driving means you allow for idiots and move over when danger appears.