Thai submarine to be powered by Chinese engine following German withdrawal

[NoDisplayName]

Excellent news.

Can't wait to see the pride of the Thai navy patrolling the Mekong.

[BritScot]

8 hours ago, Callmeishmael said:

The CHD620 is a Deutz design made in China.  As long as the factory can meet the original specifications it should be the same as the German engine.

 

Of course, the real problem is not where the engine was made, it's why Thailand needs a sub at all.

Kick backs that's why they never purchased Western subs which are far superior and work. Note (also no tracking devices hidden).

[billd766]

14 minutes ago, h90 said:

That is an advantage...you can't sink the submarine in the gulf.....a bit of it is always above the water....

Not so.

 

The deepest part of Thai waters is around 190 metres.

 

The Yuan class submarine  has these details 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_039A_submarine

 

Structure: double hulled
Length: 66 meter
Beam: 8 meter
Draft: 8.2 meter
Surface displacement: 1,850 tons
Submerged displacement: 2,300 tons
Maximum speed: 18 knots
Cruise speed: 16 knots
Range: 8000 nautical miles at 16 knots
Endurance: 60 days
Crew: 38 total
Maximum depth: 300 meters

 

The draft of 8.2 metres means the normal depth of water from the keel to the waterline. Even if you add another 12 metres to it to get to periscope depth, it is still only 20 metres in height.

 

That means that if it is on the seabed there is still 150 metres of water above it at the deepest point of the Gulf of Thailand.

[MikeandDow]

8 minutes ago, h90 said:

I have seen the boats that patrol the marine park in Chumphon....they were hard wired.....with satellite dish on the land, etc....they didn't move for years....but I am sure in the books they still consume a lot diesel.....And I guess the staff has all diesel cars

i think you need to check what you are posting as i said thailand has nasty defemation laws and here you are implying that the staff of this park are corupt (no proof)

[h90]

3 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Not so.

 

The deepest part of Thai waters is around 190 metres.

 

The Yuan class submarine  has these details 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_039A_submarine

 

Structure: double hulled
Length: 66 meter
Beam: 8 meter
Draft: 8.2 meter
Surface displacement: 1,850 tons
Submerged displacement: 2,300 tons
Maximum speed: 18 knots
Cruise speed: 16 knots
Range: 8000 nautical miles at 16 knots
Endurance: 60 days
Crew: 38 total
Maximum depth: 300 meters

 

The draft of 8.2 metres means the normal depth of water from the keel to the waterline. Even if you add another 12 metres to it to get to periscope depth, it is still only 20 metres in height.

 

That means that if it is on the seabed there is still 150 metres of water above it at the deepest point of the Gulf of Thailand.

yes if it finds that hole.....big parts are in the 30meter range.....it might sense with the islands.....but some very high up had doubts in the birthday speech years ago.

[djayz]

5 hours ago, Robin said:

Remember to close all hatches before leaving port

Better to leave them open so can get fresh air. 

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, h90 said:

buses, trains and infrastructure are used to pay for themself and should not cost tax.

True in theory but in reality the government typically borrows the cost, ie., from China for the dual rail high-speed train. 

If the operator revenues cannot provide sufficient return of capital and return on capital (ie., like with China's intra-country high speed rail system) due to underpriced fares or insufficient cargo/ridership/tolls to meet debt service and maintenance, tax dollars must be used for the shortfall.

 

 

[h90]

18 minutes ago, djayz said:

Better to leave them open so can get fresh air. 

shouldn't be a problem in the gulf...also can skip the dive training

[h90]

5 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

True in theory but in reality the government typically borrows the cost, ie., from China for the dual rail high-speed train. 

If the operator revenues cannot provide sufficient return of capital and return on capital (ie., like with China's intra-country high speed rail system) due to underpriced fares or insufficient cargo/ridership/tolls to meet debt service and maintenance, tax dollars must be used for the shortfall.

 

 

I don't know how much is true and how much is anti china propaganda....But it seems the planing for the intra country high speed rail system was bad.

a) they connected for huge amount of money areas that simply don't need it

b) they make it personal only in the design first and not cargo...which lets out lots of opportunities

as I said....not sure if it is true....it is binary....you have people that tell China is perfect and can do not wrong....and people who say China is bad and bankrupt and will complete die.

there is very little objective information

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs........Karl Marx.

From each according to how much we can wring out of them, to each as much as they can stache away....... Tha business elites.

[jaideedave]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Not so.

 

The deepest part of Thai waters is around 190 metres.

 

The Yuan class submarine  has these details 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_039A_submarine

 

Structure: double hulled
Length: 66 meter
Beam: 8 meter
Draft: 8.2 meter
Surface displacement: 1,850 tons
Submerged displacement: 2,300 tons
Maximum speed: 18 knots
Cruise speed: 16 knots
Range: 8000 nautical miles at 16 knots
Endurance: 60 days
Crew: 38 total
Maximum depth: 300 meters

 

The draft of 8.2 metres means the normal depth of water from the keel to the waterline. Even if you add another 12 metres to it to get to periscope depth, it is still only 20 metres in height.

 

That means that if it is on the seabed there is still 150 metres of water above it at the deepest point of the Gulf of Thailand.

From Wikipedia> The gulf is relatively shallow: its mean depth is 58 meters (190 ft) and the maximum depth is only 85 meters (279 ft).

^{There may be a deep hole somewhere}

[nobodysfriend]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

Recently, said committee oversaw the testing of the Chinese-made power unit, clarifying that it wouldn’t be for the propulsion system of the Thai submarine. Instead, it’s meant for energy generation to recharge the batteries operating the submarine.

 

So , it is only the generator ?

The motor is electric and gets it's energy from the batteries only ? ... Just plant the thai national flag on it and watch it going down ...

 

Does Thailand need a submarine ... may be , tax money has to be spent equally between Army , Navy or Air force ?

And it would provide an emergency exit to a VIP ...

Justin Case ...

Edited July 10, 2023 by nobodysfriend

[jaideedave]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

My question is this. If the extremely toxic and dangerously timid army were unwilling to take any risks whatsoever, with regard to Covid, why are they spending 22 billion baht on submarines? Obviously there is some risk in operating subs, and even more risk if as they say, they are purposed to protect against terrorist threats and any threat in the South China Sea. The real budget is more like 13 billion baht for the first 
S26T Yuan Class sub, due in 2013. And the real cost for the subsequent two? 

Thai naval forces have not operated submarines for over 60 years now, while neighboring countries, particularly those with a major dispute at sea with Thailand, such as Vietnam, are all equipped with modern submarines. Looks like they are willing to take a huge risk with the treasury. Why so timid with Covid?

This government is a whirlpool of conflicting loyalties and interests. It's leader has to manage those interests, and effectively buy the loyalties of the various parts of the armed forces. The submarines are the price he has to pay for the navy supporting him. They will end up unusable and unaffordable, as did the aircraft carrier

There is no strategic justification for the submarines. There is really no military threat to Thailand, none of the countries with which it shares a land border have the capacity for anything other than the occasional cross border firefight. If you look carefully at all the military procurement of recent years, they are all to support ambitions, and thus buy the support of the various rival groups within the armed forces. They simply do not add up to any sort of a coherent modernisation or re-equipment of what remains a largely obsolete, immobile and under trained force, able only to undertake the most mundane of garrison duties, whilst it's bloated leadership occupies itself with playing politics or their own largely unregulated business ventures.

The government however (or more realistically those to whom it reports) must rely upon the military to keep it in power. It was put into power for one core function; to prevent the nascent political, social and economic liberalisation of Thai society which arose with the arrival of new technologies and communications, which have allowed a (younger) population which has long been kept ill educated and dependent for any advancement on its elders and sponsors, to communicate, educate themselves and develop business independent of those elders and sponsors. The Covid crisis is in a dimension beyond that, and it's timid, chaotic "rabbit in the headlights" response to the challenges it brings are simply because it does not know how to react, other than to use some of the opportunities to exercise power, in pursuit of that core function, which the social and political restrictions they argue the disease has necessitated give them.
 

Google tells me there are 660 soldiers per general in the Thai armed forces.1,600 in the US armed forces.

That info may be dated...maybe more generals these days.

[Muzzique]

At least the Chinese will know where it is all the time now. 

[billd766]

40 minutes ago, jaideedave said:

From Wikipedia> The gulf is relatively shallow: its mean depth is 58 meters (190 ft) and the maximum depth is only 85 meters (279 ft).

^{There may be a deep hole somewhere}

Thank you.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, jaideedave said:

Google tells me there are 660 soldiers per general in the Thai armed forces.1,600 in the US armed forces.

That info may be dated...maybe more generals these days.

And you can make an argument that the US has legitimate interests to defend against. Thailand? Really? When was the last time these generals fought, and if they had to, could they avoid wetting their pants? 

 

And having said that, I do not think the US has been in a "righteous war" since WWII. 

Edited July 10, 2023 by spidermike007

[cowellandrew]

[cowellandrew]

11 hours ago, Callmeishmael said:

The CHD620 is a Deutz design made in China.  As long as the factory can meet the original specifications it should be the same as the German engine.

 

Of course, the real problem is not where the engine was made, it's why Thailand needs a sub at all.

I had a great deutz tractor in 1986

It was an air cooled engine the gearbox was fantastic, but unfortunately I was overtaken by a ford 6600 on the hill climb on on Codden hill,Devon

Then all love was lost!

????

[swm59nj]

I hope the engine is made better than some other products made in China 

[cowellandrew]

11 hours ago, jaideedave said:

Correct herfie,The average depth of the gulf is 190 ft. I served 4 years on a diesel,electric sub that was 312 ft long.End on it would stick out of the water here by 120 ft.lol. The Yuan is about 250 ft.At least if it sank in the gulf the men could just pop open a hatch and swim to the surface. We trained for that at Ford Island sub base in Hawaii.

FYI: I was at Queen Sirikit Naval hospital last year and noticed a couple Thai officers in uniform with submarine badges. What's that all about?

 

 

Not if you put in Russian torpedoes!

Type 65-76A

[Venom]

Can't they just mount a Kubota? 

[Artisi]

On 7/10/2023 at 10:20 AM, jacko45k said:

Let us hope so........ although I recall the company I worked for allowing some parts to be made in China that failed and forced some very expensive retrofits!

Doesn't rely matter, the sub/s will be moored alongside the useless show piece plane-less aircraft carrier that only sees any activity when opened on children day each year. 

[cncltd1973]

On 7/10/2023 at 7:29 AM, ezzra said:

Yeah buy a submarine while your people are languishing with poor, lacking, much needed health system improvements, but hey, we need a sub to protect us from imaginary, non existing enemies.

they will always have the poor desperate, but that won't stop them from living their best life

[Emdog]

When the Chinese sub substitute engine deal fails, I suggest they go with this powerplant. Would also use local resources from S Thailand