Anyone on here know much about camcorders? Settings? Compressing videos etc?

[Kenny202]

Just got a Sony handycam and have a few questions regarding settings etc. I wont go into detail with a list of questions as its a bit of a long shot. Would like to hear from someone if you know some of this stuff ????

[Johntwo]

Go on, i'ii give it a go.

What do you need to know?

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, Johntwo said:

Go on, i'ii give it a go.

What do you need to know?

Hi there, thanks for your reply. Well for starters, my camcorder makes pretty huge files. Average about 30mb per only 2 minutes. Its about 10 year old Sony but hi spec prosumer, well in its day it was. Full HD, not 4k.

Mostly viewed on computer...not TV

 

I want high quality but when required want to compress the files down without too much loss of quality. Bear in mind total newbie here not that familiar with bit rates etc ???? There are a lot of converters around but much of them just seem to make the pixels less (?) say 1080p to 720p etc which seems pretty lossy. Anything you can recommend? Preferably free. Was looking at Handbrake app before. Seems to be well regarded?

 

Another question regarding FPS....I can set my Sony to 25 or 50...P or I. I believe the P setting higher quality than the i (Interlaced setting) Does that sound right?

 

I am after the clearest, best quality I can get...not after cinematic effect or anything. What would be the best frame rate to achieve this? 25 or 50? P or I?

 

Appreciate your help ????

Edited July 13, 2023 by Kenny202

[tomazbodner]

9 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Hi there, thanks for your reply. Well for starters, my camcorder makes pretty huge files. Average about 30mb per only 2 minutes. Its about 10 year old Sony but hi spec prosumer, well in its day it was. Full HD, not 4k.

Mostly viewed on computer...not TV

 

I want high quality but when required want to compress the files down without too much loss of quality. Bear in mind total newbie here not that familiar with bit rates etc ???? There are a lot of converters around but much of them just seem to make the pixels less (?) say 1080p to 720p etc which seems pretty lossy. Anything you can recommend? Preferably free. Was looking at Handbrake app before. Seems to be well regarded?

 

Another question regarding FPS....I can set my Sony to 25 or 50...P or I. I believe the P setting higher quality than the i (Interlaced setting) Does that sound right?

 

I am after the clearest, best quality I can get...not after cinematic effect or anything. What would be the best frame rate to achieve this? 25 or 50? P or I?

 

Appreciate your help ????

The point of prosumer/professional camcorder is to keep as high picture quality and editable video format, so 15 MB/min is actually on the low side. Idea is to edit it on your computer and then export into a compressed MPEG 4 file.

 

P is progressive (whole picture displayed at once), I is interlaced (picture is displayed in odd lines first, even lines after, which requires twice the speed and since it's captured slightly apart time-wise, can cause comb effect on moving objects or panning). 10 years ago 25P or 50I was a good spec, today it's no longer. Personally I would record samples in both and check which I liked more. Interlaced will be smoother but have artifacts on moving objects, Progressive will be less smooth but with fewer artifacts.

Edited July 13, 2023 by tomazbodner

[recom273]

I use handbrake on a daily basis, but I dont use it to compress home video. It's the standard open source, free app - nothing to fault it. There is no need to look at any paid app, some of the "free" ones are a bit suspect tbh.

 

What are you using to edit your video? Your editing suite will usually do the legwork for you. I use finalcut pro occasionally, and that's pretty intuitive, it gives approx file sizes and time to render when you export, no need to compress further with HB.

Edited July 13, 2023 by recom273

[Kenny202]

3 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

The point of prosumer/professional camcorder is to keep as high picture quality and editable video format, so 15 MB/min is actually on the low side. Idea is to edit it on your computer and then export into a compressed MPEG 4 file.

 

P is progressive (whole picture displayed at once), I is interlaced (picture is displayed in odd lines first, even lines after, which requires twice the speed and since it's captured slightly apart time-wise, can cause comb effect on moving objects or panning). 10 years ago 25P or 50I was a good spec, today it's no longer. Personally I would record samples in both and check which I liked more. Interlaced will be smoother but have artifacts on moving objects, Progressive will be less smooth but with fewer artifacts.

My new best friend lol. Thanks for your reply. My camera only has settings of 25, 50i and 50p. When you say compress into an MPEG 4 file you mean Mp4? Or is MPEG 4 format different?

 

What would you suggest as a converter? the output of my Sony is MTS straight off the SD card, or MTS2 importing with Sony's proprietary software. It is an older camera, but I bought it for next to nothing and it is like new so thought I would have a bit of fun with it and maybe learn something ???? I am only a hobbyist...and I am sure there are better more modern cameras out there but just not prepared, at this stage anyway to invest in something may be a flash in the pan. So making the best of this one

 

Its a Sony HDR-TD20VE if you are interested. Actually a 3D camera but not interested in that side of it. I had a 3D Pana would have been about the same vintage some years ago. Man it shot a nice clear movie, even inside in low light

[Kenny202]

4 minutes ago, recom273 said:

I use handbrake on a daily basis, but I dont use it to compress home video. It's the standard open source, free app - nothing to fault it. There is no need to look at any paid app, some of the "free" ones are a bit suspect tbh.

 

What are you using to edit your video? Your editing suite will usually do the legwork for you. I use finalcut pro occasionally, and that's pretty intuitive, it gives approx file sizes and time to render when you export, no need to compress further with HB.

Handbrake does seem good and lots of video tutorials on it. I also have Wondershare Fimora (Editor) and their conversion program which are both probably older versions. Conversion program seems ok but I think it is limited....mostly just changes the resolution I think if reducing size. Is Final Cut pro difficult to use for a newbie?  

[tomazbodner]

28 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

My new best friend lol. Thanks for your reply. My camera only has settings of 25, 50i and 50p. When you say compress into an MPEG 4 file you mean Mp4? Or is MPEG 4 format different?

 

What would you suggest as a converter? the output of my Sony is MTS straight off the SD card, or MTS2 importing with Sony's proprietary software. It is an older camera, but I bought it for next to nothing and it is like new so thought I would have a bit of fun with it and maybe learn something ???? I am only a hobbyist...and I am sure there are better more modern cameras out there but just not prepared, at this stage anyway to invest in something may be a flash in the pan. So making the best of this one

 

Its a Sony HDR-TD20VE if you are interested. Actually a 3D camera but not interested in that side of it. I had a 3D Pana would have been about the same vintage some years ago. Man it shot a nice clear movie, even inside in low light

MPEG4 or M4V is usually same, MP4 likely as well. The Sony format is MPEG2 TS, which is intended for transport/stream. It can be converted to MPEG2 PS, which is format intended for storing/playback. Sony has proprietary software which allows you to clip and merge clips and then export them to MPEG2 PS. Though new versions of software might have MPEG4 output option, mine didn't. But Handbrake or VLC with convert to file could let you convert to most formats.

 

There is no difference between MPEG2 and MPEG4 in terms of absolute quality. MPEG4 can just do a much better compression with less quality loss. You can achieve same quality, just MPEG2 file will be much bigger.

 

Never had 3D camcorder so can't comment on how the files look like for that.

[Kenny202]

1 minute ago, tomazbodner said:

Never had 3D camcorder so can't comment on how the files look like for that.

I have it set to shoot in normal mode, 2D. Not interested in the 3D side of it at all. Mine had HDD and SD storage as well. The reviews and specs on it were good, and it is like new / unused so for $20 will entertain / educate myself cheaply ???? Some of those older cameras still going for fairly decent money...even mini disk and DV cameras. Anything in decent condition 3000 - 6000 baht. The reason mine was so cheap is the guy inherited it from his dads house and said no charger, but it has a built in USB lead to charge the battery. So camera / battery dead when I bought it. Took a punt and it was perfect 

 

[MrJ2U]

54 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

The point of prosumer/professional camcorder is to keep as high picture quality and editable video format, so 15 MB/min is actually on the low side. Idea is to edit it on your computer and then export into a compressed MPEG 4 file.

 

P is progressive (whole picture displayed at once), I is interlaced (picture is displayed in odd lines first, even lines after, which requires twice the speed and since it's captured slightly apart time-wise, can cause comb effect on moving objects or panning). 10 years ago 25P or 50I was a good spec, today it's no longer. Personally I would record samples in both and check which I liked more. Interlaced will be smoother but have artifacts on moving objects, Progressive will be less smooth but with fewer artifacts.

Smart guy! 

[recom273]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

Handbrake does seem good and lots of video tutorials on it. I also have Wondershare Fimora (Editor) and their conversion program which are both probably older versions. Conversion program seems ok but I think it is limited....mostly just changes the resolution I think if reducing size. Is Final Cut pro difficult to use for a newbie?  

Wondershare used to have some shady practices - HB is fine.

 

If you have a Mac, then FCP is pretty straightforward after watching enough video tutorials, but like adobe premiere, it's can be a pro-tool. (if you have a Mac) iMovie is already installed on your Mac and even easier, just edit your video and then clicking share will give you an option on quality / compressor / resolution. Easy.

[Kenny202]

Another one for you guys re quality settings. The camera has 3 independent settings....

 

1) Frame rate (50i, 50p,25p)

2) FX (highest quality) FH (High quality) HQ (standard)

3) Quality (HD, STD)

 

I know the best thing to do is shoot some stuff and see what I think but I don't often have good subjective reasoning when judging quality of photo, film or sound. So looking for the nest logical starting point.  

 

Can't really get my head around it all but I after the clearest / smoothest video at the minimum size. Mainly for viewing on PC, not TV or large screens. I would like a smaller size file but don't want to sacrifice quality. Not sure if Video is the same as photos where there is a point that the increased resolution is unnoticeable unless you are making large prints? Given all this should I just select FX, 50i and HD for the ultimate quality and compress in post?

 

I notice if I select 50p frame rate setting....the camera defaults to a PS setting (AVCHD 28M) and you can no longer select HX, FH or HQ. The HD setting still showing HD but not sure if this is the case. I think from what I have read I would like to use progressive rather than interlaced but like I said I am automatically locked into default PS settings. Does anyone know what PS mode is? Am I still shooting high quality HD?

 

 

[NextG]

22 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Another one for you guys re quality settings. The camera has 3 independent settings....

 

1) Frame rate (50i, 50p,25p)

2) FX (highest quality) FH (High quality) HQ (standard)

3) Quality (HD, STD)

 

I know the best thing to do is shoot some stuff and see what I think but I don't often have good subjective reasoning when judging quality of photo, film or sound. So looking for the nest logical starting point.  

 

Can't really get my head around it all but I after the clearest / smoothest video at the minimum size. Mainly for viewing on PC, not TV or large screens. I would like a smaller size file but don't want to sacrifice quality. Not sure if Video is the same as photos where there is a point that the increased resolution is unnoticeable unless you are making large prints? Given all this should I just select FX, 50i and HD for the ultimate quality and compress in post?

 

I notice if I select 50p frame rate setting....the camera defaults to a PS setting (AVCHD 28M) and you can no longer select HX, FH or HQ. The HD setting still showing HD but not sure if this is the case. I think from what I have read I would like to use progressive rather than interlaced but like I said I am automatically locked into default PS settings. Does anyone know what PS mode is? Am I still shooting high quality HD?

 

 

PS is the highest quality mode. It’s the highest quality because it contains the most information/detail, hence the largest file. That’s how it works. Smaller file, less information. You cannot have it both ways. As to not being able to choose any other mode whilst in PS, can you be in fifth gear and first gear in a car at the same time?

Look at it from another perspective. Imagine you have two music sources; one a CD and another an AM radio and you had a choice in recording a song for a friend from either of those choices. Which would you choose?

The main reason for choosing a lesser quality would have been the cost and the recording time of the recording media. 
Always choose the highest quality and then edit. PS or FX (Full HD) 25p. 

[NextG]

If you’ve ever downloaded media from a Torrent or such like, you have probably seen terms such as H.264 and H.265. These are video compression methods. 
AVCHD is an amalgamation of video  compression (H.264) and and audio compression(Dolby AC-3) packaged into an MPEG transport stream. The figure at the end correlates to the file size/throughput. AVCHD 28M: AVCHD at 28Mbps. 
 

 

 

 

[Kenny202]

32 minutes ago, NextG said:

PS is the highest quality mode. It’s the highest quality because it contains the most information/detail, hence the largest file. That’s how it works. Smaller file, less information. You cannot have it both ways. As to not being able to choose any other mode whilst in PS, can you be in fifth gear and first gear in a car at the same time?

Look at it from another perspective. Imagine you have two music sources; one a CD and another an AM radio and you had a choice in recording a song for a friend from either of those choices. Which would you choose?

The main reason for choosing a lesser quality would have been the cost and the recording time of the recording media. 
Always choose the highest quality and then edit. PS or FX (Full HD) 25p. 

So is 25p a better choice than 50p?

[NextG]

5 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

So is 25p a better choice than 50p?

What did you not understand about what I wrote? Highest quality means highest quality ????

[NextG]

Once you have your highest quality Master tape, you can have your fun in the editing. 
If you start lower you’ll have less options for editing. 

[NextG]

For example, shoot in 50p, you have the option of editing to slow motion at 25p. 

[Kenny202]

5 minutes ago, NextG said:

What did you not understand about what I wrote? Highest quality means highest quality ????

Well its a bit confusilng for me anyway. I thought 50p was smoother / clearer and 25p was more for old skool / cinema effect? Clearly I have no clue. Appreciate your detailed replies so far, but would u be able to explain difference in quality 25 / 50 in laymans terms. Being a layman I assume bigger numbers = better quality ????

[NextG]

1 minute ago, Kenny202 said:

Well its a bit confusilng for me anyway. I thought 50p was smoother / clearer and 25p was more for old skool / cinema effect? Clearly I have no clue. Appreciate your detailed replies so far, but would u be able to explain difference in quality 25 / 50 in laymans terms. Being a layman I assume bigger numbers = better quality ????

Layman’s terms: Again… Shoot in the highest quality. How many times do you need to be told?

[NextG]

and then edit. But keep the Master tapes. 

[Kenny202]

I understand and I want the highest quality. No question about that and not what I am asking you. I am askong you how do I get the highest quality. Is 25p better than 50p quality wise or vice versa irrespective of being able to slow mo etc in post. You mentioned 50p at first then your last quote says full hd 25p or PS. PS is 50p right?

[NextG]

1 minute ago, Kenny202 said:

I understand and I want the highest quality. No question about that and not what I am asking you. I am askong you how do I get the highest quality. Is 25p better than 50p quality wise or vice versa irrespective of being able to slow mo etc in post. You mentioned 50p at first then your last quote says full hd 25p or PS. PS is 50p right?

I gave you two options; Best and second best. Choose the best. Don’t go lower than second best. 

[Kenny202]

Just now, NextG said:

I gave you two options; Best and second best. Choose the best. Don’t go lower than second best. 

Understood ????

[NextG]

PS as your default for anything that is important. 
FX if you just want to have fun experimenting with 25p or interlaced. 

[NextG]

I reply in bits and bytes in so I don’t get signed out during a long reply. 
Always shoot in the best quality in order to give yourself the most options for editing. 
It’s fine if you choose to produce a smaller and lower quality version for distribution afterwards. HDD are inexpensive. The only issue is the cost of the recording media and the recording time available for PS recordings. 
 

[Kenny202]

19 minutes ago, NextG said:

I reply in bits and bytes in so I don’t get signed out during a long reply. 
Always shoot in the best quality in order to give yourself the most options for editing. 
It’s fine if you choose to produce a smaller and lower quality version for distribution afterwards. HDD are inexpensive. The only issue is the cost of the recording media and the recording time available for PS recordings. 
 

I got 64gb HD + 64gb SD so plenty and then some... for me anyway. Thanks for you great effort / help ????

[Kenny202]

A couple of other things after a bit of experimentation (sorry to be a pest ????

 

1) As much of my shooting will be indoors night time in room lights / low light or indoors daytime with some window light.....

 

I read in lower light, a lower FPS speed setting ie 25p will allow more light and hence a clearer movie? Does that sound right?

I did a couple of test movies in 25 and 50 and think I did see an improvement in 25p

 

2) Straight off the disk the files are MTS....I can copy them straight to my computer and play them, convert them or what ever. If I use the Sony software to export the photos off the camera I get an MTS-2 file

 

Is there anything going on there with the different files or does something happen (compression, enhancement etc) using the software, or does it just change the file extension and not much else. If it is only adding file metadata or something and not improving image quality it is not important to me. Only reason I ask a lot easier for me to copy the MTS files straight off the SD card rather than go through the export process with the Sony software. Thanks again ????

Edited July 14, 2023 by Kenny202

[NextG]

26 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

A couple of other things after a bit of experimentation (sorry to be a pest ????

 

1) As much of my shooting will be indoors night time in room lights / low light or indoors daytime with some window light.....

 

I read in lower light, a lower FPS speed setting ie 25p will allow more light and hence a clearer movie? Does that sound right?

I did a couple of test movies in 25 and 50 and think I did see an improvement in 25p

 

2) Straight off the disk the files are MTS....I can copy them straight to my computer and play them, convert them or what ever. If I use the Sony software to export the photos off the camera I get an MTS-2 file

 

Is there anything going on there with the different files or does something happen (compression, enhancement etc) using the software, or does it just change the file extension and not much else. If it is only adding file metadata or something and not improving image quality it is not important to me. Only reason I ask a lot easier for me to copy the MTS files straight off the SD card rather than go through the export process with the Sony software. Thanks again ????

AVCHD is already compressed. So you can work directly off the SD card. 
Sounds like you are on the right track. 
Good find for US$20(or the equivalent

[NextG]

I’m guessing you meant M2TS, but it makes no difference. It’s the same file.