DIY solar system - how to sell electricity to PEA

[4myr]

Would like to share some info/experience on how to get hold of a Power Purchase Agreement [PPA] with PEA to sell electricity to them.

 

The online system is called Power Producer Information System [PPIM] and one of the programs is to buy electricity from small households.

Hope this helps. Will keep you posted on the progress. If you are familiar with this program, please share.

========

 

A few years ago I installed a small DIY on-grid system [ 3.3kw inverter, 2,000 Wp panels ].

As my production was equal to what I used, I did not bother to look into the details how to make a contract to sell electricity to PEA. 

 

This month I extended the system to the full capacity of the inverter. On a normal sunny day I can export/sell around 10kwh per day.

With the current 2.2 baht / kwh price and a contract of 10 years I can earn max around 70,000 baht.

 

After some searching I found on the PEA site the online process to submit a request to have a PEA selling contract.

It is called PPIM for rooftop solar households, type 1 residential.

Please check your PEA invoice, column Type, if you can apply.

Fee to submit the request is 2,000 baht excl VAT.

 

After scrolling thru the online form I learned that I cannot do it on my own.

I need a certified engineer that will sign off the electrical diagram [Single Line Diagram] of the system.

 

So I called a few installation companies in Prachuap, where I live.

One gave a quote of 15,000 baht + 2,500 baht extra, because they did not install my system. 

 

After providing them some pictures of the combiner box I had a call with sales.

Success rate of a PEA selling contract is 100%. No rejections sofar. However I would be their first DIY customer.

Wait time PEA for the whole process is 3 to 6 months.

 

A few weeks ago, a company from Ayuthaya installed a solar system at my neighbour's roof.

I managed to ask the onsite engineer to check my combiner box.

 

After 20 minutes checking he said: AC circuit breaker of inverter in main panel should be 32A instead of 16A.

And the earth/ground cable should be black color instead of yellow/green.

Hmm. I thought that yellow/green was the international standard for ground.

 

Accidentally my Thai wife found an engineer thru her friend. He also happen to live in the same town in Prachuap.

He came to see the system. He also explained the request process, as he also installs solar systems.

 

Nothing wrong with my system! No changes needed. What a relief.

 

After submitting the form with many attachments e.g. SLD diagram, PEA will take 45 days to come with an answer.

For Prachuap customers the process is centralized at PEA Phetchaburi.

 

Progress of status of the request can be checked online.

If approved for the next step, print out the online documents and pay the fee of 2,000 baht at your PEA office.

 

PEA will make an appointment for inspection of around 3 hours.

They will check the combiner box, main house panel, inverter and the earth bonding stick into the soil.

They will not go to the roof to check the grounding of the panels.

 

After PEA inspection, it takes an additional 30 days before final approval can be expected and that the selling/export is registered by PEA systems.

So a total of around 3-4 months. The engineer also told me that there is no waiting queue for export meters in Prachuap.

 

The best part came at the end. He will not charge us anything, except for expenses. As long as we can do some marketing about his solar installation business.

[Dan O]

Didn't they just announce in the last couple days they shut the solar purchase program down or will quite shortly for new applicants due to safety reasons? The article was in bankkok post this week

[MrJ2U]

1 hour ago, 4myr said:

Would like to share some info/experience on how to get hold of a Power Purchase Agreement [PPA] with PEA to sell electricity to them.

 

The online system is called Power Producer Information System [PPIM] and one of the programs is to buy electricity from small households.

Hope this helps. Will keep you posted on the progress. If you are familiar with this program, please share.

========

 

A few years ago I installed a small DIY on-grid system [ 3.3kw inverter, 2,000 Wp panels ].

As my production was equal to what I used, I did not bother to look into the details how to make a contract to sell electricity to PEA. 

 

This month I extended the system to the full capacity of the inverter. On a normal sunny day I can export/sell around 10kwh per day.

With the current 2.2 baht / kwh price and a contract of 10 years I can earn max around 70,000 baht.

 

After some searching I found on the PEA site the online process to submit a request to have a PEA selling contract.

It is called PPIM for rooftop solar households, type 1 residential.

Please check your PEA invoice, column Type, if you can apply.

Fee to submit the request is 2,000 baht excl VAT.

 

After scrolling thru the online form I learned that I cannot do it on my own.

I need a certified engineer that will sign off the electrical diagram [Single Line Diagram] of the system.

 

So I called a few installation companies in Prachuap, where I live.

One gave a quote of 15,000 baht + 2,500 baht extra, because they did not install my system. 

 

After providing them some pictures of the combiner box I had a call with sales.

Success rate of a PEA selling contract is 100%. No rejections sofar. However I would be their first DIY customer.

Wait time PEA for the whole process is 3 to 6 months.

 

A few weeks ago, a company from Ayuthaya installed a solar system at my neighbour's roof.

I managed to ask the onsite engineer to check my combiner box.

 

After 20 minutes checking he said: AC circuit breaker of inverter in main panel should be 32A instead of 16A.

And the earth/ground cable should be black color instead of yellow/green.

Hmm. I thought that yellow/green was the international standard for ground.

 

Accidentally my Thai wife found an engineer thru her friend. He also happen to live in the same town in Prachuap.

He came to see the system. He also explained the request process, as he also installs solar systems.

 

Nothing wrong with my system! No changes needed. What a relief.

 

After submitting the form with many attachments e.g. SLD diagram, PEA will take 45 days to come with an answer.

For Prachuap customers the process is centralized at PEA Phetchaburi.

 

Progress of status of the request can be checked online.

If approved for the next step, print out the online documents and pay the fee of 2,000 baht at your PEA office.

 

PEA will make an appointment for inspection of around 3 hours.

They will check the combiner box, main house panel, inverter and the earth bonding stick into the soil.

They will not go to the roof to check the grounding of the panels.

 

After PEA inspection, it takes an additional 30 days before final approval can be expected and that the selling/export is registered by PEA systems.

So a total of around 3-4 months. The engineer also told me that there is no waiting queue for export meters in Prachuap.

 

The best part came at the end. He will not charge us anything, except for expenses. As long as we can do some marketing about his solar installation business.

Are you running a few air conditioners?  I think that's our biggest expense along with our pool pump.

 

I'm kicking myself for not installing solar! 

[Crossy]

Let's pop this over to the Alternative Energy forum.

 

Good news that you've managed to at least start the process with a DIY system, the acid test will be actually getting your export meter, at least one member has been waiting years for his (On a professionally installed and approved system)!

 

Shelling out around 20k for approval to sell at 2.2Baht per unit, so you need to sell 9,000 units to break even on the approval cost. If you are really over-producing by 10kWh per day that's 900 days or 2.5 years.

 

Do keep us informed how things pan out and good luck! ???? 

[4myr]

Last week the engineer submitted the form.

 

I sent him the specs of the panels as cropped from the Lazada shop's website, as I could not find the data sheet from the manufacturer. But these were heavily pixelated, although still very readable. The engineer was a bit concerned that PEA would reject these, so he spend some time in looking for better quality pdfs.

 

As he was planning to drop by at PEA Phetchaburi later during the 45 day wait period, he was also not very concerned.

 

The status of the form as Google translated is now a bit confusing:
1) waiting for payment [have to pay after approval of 1st step] and

2) waiting for processing of documents [by PEA]

 

I' ll update you again after the visit to Phetchaburi or around 1st Sept

[4myr]

after 3 corrections of the document, we finally got a go to sign the contract with PEA.

 

after each rejection we got an email with details how to correct it. it took a while (more than 3 months) because the engineer was not all the time available and we did not see the rejection email on time. Pea always gave a reply within 1-2 welds after submitting the (corrected) document.

 

 after signing and paying the 2140 baht fee, an appointment will be made for inspection. i’ll keep you updated.

 

btw our neighbor who hired a installation company from bangkok got the contract within 6 weeks. what surprised me that they did not replace the analog meter. only that the analog meter is connected to the huawei 5kw inverter. 

 

 

[Crossy]

The wheels grind oh so slowly ...

 

Your neighbour still hasn't got his "sell" meter (unless he has a two-dial analogue unit). Hope he doesn't get caught out spinning it backwards.

 

Despite having everything in place and "approved" for an export meter @Thaifish got caught out by the meter reader and had a no-reverse meter installed. AFAIK he still hasn't got his export meter

[Thaifish]

This is right up my ally with info I need.... I have been banging my head against the wall with PEA trying to sell excess solar on my 10Kw system. Ive had a Smart Meter finally installed 6 weeks ago. Burriram PEA now saying can only export to 3 phase power lines. My system is single phase. Told to contact Bangkok PEA for advise through their web site. Ran out of steam after trying to send them an e-mail 3 times and the web page just said unavailable at this time!!! @4myr is your system single phase? @Crossy thanks for mentioning me now I have found this thread. Time for the Issan Luv Machine to get on the phone. I'm exporting around 30Kwh each day now with blue sky's and no air-con running.

[007 RED]

@4myr  May I firstly wish you the very best of luck with your endeavours to get approval to become a Small Power Producer (SPP) and to get paid by your local PEA for feeding back your surplus power to them.  From what other members of the forum who have tried to get approval have enlightened us, it is no mean task.

 

OK, my reason for posting the comments below is because of your aspiration that feeding back 10 units/day, at a payback rate of 2.2 THB, will give you a return of 70,000 THB over 10 years.

 

I’m sorry to say it, but if you do get approval to become a SPP, I don’t think that you are going to get anywhere near the return of 70,000 THB within the 10 years that you are hoping for.  I think that you will be extremely lucky if you get about half that amount assuming that the feedback rate (2.2 THB/unit) remains the same.

 

Why only half your anticipated figure?

 

At present with a normal meter the monthly 'Service Charge' (sometimes referred to as a Standing or Connection charge) which is  shown on your monthly bill can be 8.19 THB/month, or  24.62 THB/month, depending upon how many units you purchase a month from the PEA.

 

What you may not be aware of is that the moment you get SPP approval, and your local PEA installs your wonderful new feedback meter, they (the PEA) will up your monthly ‘Service Charge’ considerably . 

 

I recall that another member, quite some time ago, who went down the same route as you was horrified when he discovered the new ‘Service Charge’ for feeding his surplus back to his local PEA.  Unfortunately, I can’t remember the figure that he quoted, and I can’t find any reference to this particular charge on any of the PEA websites.

 

But as an example:

 

If the ‘Service Charge’ for a feedback meter is the same as the charge for Time Of Use (TOU) meter, which is currently 312 THB/month, then at the current rate of 2.2 THB/unit feedback, you will need to feedback approximately 141 units each month, just to pay for the new ‘Service Charge’.

 

Hence, based upon your anticipated feedback of 10 units/day for a 30 day month, this will give a feedback of 300 units/month.  If you need to produce at least 141 units/month to cover the cost of the ‘Service Charge’, you will in fact only be getting 159 units, which at  2.2 THB will only give you a payback of 350 THB/month from your local PEA, which is unfortunately half of what you are expecting.

 

I would seriously recommend that you double check with your PEA how much the ‘Service Charge’ will be if you get SPP approval.  I hope for your sake that I'm wrong.

 

I appreciate from your comments above that you have already submitted forms for approval to your local PEA, but please be mindful that giving to much information to your them will tip them off that you may well be running an unapproved DIY solar system, and this could lead to them making an unannounced visit to monitor your meter (spinning backwards).  So be cautious.

 

As I said at the beginning, best of luck with your project.

[4myr]

Well, almost 5 months after signing the PEA contract end of Nov last year, still no change in the situation. Our neighbour who hired an installer got his first electricity sale within 5 weeks.

 

So we called the guy we met in Petchaburi when we signed the contract in Nov. He checked our queue number. He said that it will take another 1 month and 1 week before the contract will come back to his desk, after the different departments has signed off on our contract. Then a few weeks will pass before we get a final inspection of our solar system. So we should expect end of May that the contract can start.

 

He also said that PEA has 270 days after signing the contract to finish the backoffice procedures. It never happen that they cross past these 270 days. Also he said, fortunately the 10 year duration of the contract will commence after the backoffice procedures finished, and not after signing the contract.

[GammaGlobulin]

On 7/16/2023 at 5:41 AM, Crossy said:

Let's pop this over to the Alternative Energy forum.

 

Good news that you've managed to at least start the process with a DIY system, the acid test will be actually getting your export meter, at least one member has been waiting years for his (On a professionally installed and approved system)!

 

Shelling out around 20k for approval to sell at 2.2Baht per unit, so you need to sell 9,000 units to break even on the approval cost. If you are really over-producing by 10kWh per day that's 900 days or 2.5 years.

 

Do keep us informed how things pan out and good luck! ???? 

 

In my view, at this point in time, and due to the approval processes, it almost seems like SHEER STUPIDITY to waste time on the process to sell to the power company.

 

At least, sheer stupidity, compared to selling the electric power to a neighbor for Bt.3.0 per kWh.

 

Or, why not just offer to recharge your neighbors' EVs for Bt.3.0 per kWh?

Seems easier and more profitable,...

At least, to me it does.

 

Maybe I have not yet thought this through, however...

 

(Why does one need the power company to act as a middleman? Nobody likes to pay commissions.)

 

 

 

[4myr]

well well after more than 6 months signing of the contract at PEA Phetchaburi my gf got a call from the head of that department that we can start to sign another document.

 

This document contains pictures of my solar system. The guy that is helping us came by with a drone to make a picture of the panels. he came with an rcbo breaker that i need to replace. it seemed that the requirements have changed as 9 months ago when he inspected the situation was ok. i had to ask a chaang climb up the roof to make pictures of the label on the back of the panel. so the document with pictures have been sent back to phetchaburi. no queue anymore to process. they will compare the pictures with the specs stated in the contract. if no issues we’ll get a call from the same team to inspect and test. they will not look into the grounding rod

 

BTW my neighbor who had his 5kw system installed by a company in Ayuthaya, finally the company did not help him to sell to PEA as promised and included in the installation. The company should know. He has 10 panels of 550Wp which is above the requirements of max 5kWp, so any request to sell would have been rejected.

[4myr]

just got a call again from PEA. Still a few weeks waiting before inspection. 

The government is also out of money. They announced that the program has been stopped for new applicants.

[Crossy]

I do admire your perseverance; I would have told them where to shove it by now.

 

We've gone the other way and gone off-grid although we still have the PEA connection as backup.

[sathornlover]

For once, an interim report from me too:

 

Our local installation company, with which we are extremely satisfied, took care of the application for our 10kWp system and kept us updated on every “progress.” Their statement that it would only take 2-3 months seemed far too optimistic to me, and I was expecting a year or maybe even more, which, of course, turned out to be correct. The application was submitted by the installation company at the end of April 2023 on the relevant PEA online portal. By the end of May, this application was approved. These approvals were published in the publicly accessible area of the portal, including the address and approved capacity. According to my recollections, 2000 applications had been approved in the PEA area in the past twelve months by that time… so we are actually talking about homeopathic quantities, and most of them are 2-5 kWp systems. In February 2024, we received a message from our installation company that the digital electricity meter would be installed in April. Upon inquiry, we were assured that we could immediately export the excess electricity and that it would actually be purchased by the electricity provider. By the end of May, the new electricity meter was indeed installed. For this purpose, a total of eight people appeared in three cars, and to my further surprise, a thorough inspection of the system was completely omitted. Less surprisingly, I had to sign what felt like 100 pages again, including the contract that was already backdated to February. I pointed this out immediately, just to make it clear that I was aware of the content of this contract and smiled leniently at this inaccuracy for once. With that, the electricity export could start immediately!

 

The next day, my wife received a call at work from an alleged employee of the PEA authority, stating that there was a problem with the electricity meter and that it needed to be replaced, which later turned out to be an obvious fraud attempt that my wife almost fell for if I hadn’t intervened energetically. However, one day before we were promised a phone call from the PEA within the next ten days to clarify the modalities of the electricity billing and the credit for the sold electricity. We waited in vain for this call for four weeks, and we didn’t receive an electricity bill either, so my wife called them herself, and we were asked to appear in person. Up to that point, I had naively assumed that the credit would be automatically transferred to us since the amount of our previous electricity bill was automatically debited from my account, the electricity provider had my account details, and there was a power of attorney to debit from there.

 

Such a direct debit authorization is not out of the box either. But at least you can download the appropriate form, have it signed by the bank, and then submit it with the usual other useless copies of ID card, house book, etc. After my wife’s call, I began to suspect that this process could be much more complex… And my suspicions were even greatly exceeded when we then appeared at the authority! We were informed, “Dear customer, you must understand that with the contract, different payment processes are triggered” and that we have to collect any credit at the PEA ourselves every month and submit the following documents for each month:

 

• A copy of the ID card,

• A copy of the house book,

• A copy of the electricity bill,

• A copy of the bank book if the money is to be transferred to the account.

 

We were also asked to buy a receipt book and issue a receipt for each individual month. When asked whether this rather cumbersome procedure could be circumvented by simply letting the credit accumulate, this was denied because the monthly credit expires after three months. At least we could find out that we could reduce these rather involuntary visits to the authority to four times a year, but still with the required stack of papers per month. This increases even more if you are not on-site yourself, which will probably be the case for us next year or at the latest in two years, then the authorized person must submit the following documents additionally for each individual month:

 

• A power of attorney stamped with a 30 baht stamp,

• A copy of the ID card and house book of the authorized person.

 

Also, the delivery of the electricity bill and the indication of the possible credit does not seem to be a trivial matter for this authority. We pointed out that we had not received a final bill for the old meter nor any new bills. After about 5 minutes of searching through various stacks of paper, we were informed that we have a credit of about 1000 baht. However, we could not take a photo of it. I asked if these bills could be sent to us by email since we are not always on site and fear that the mail will not always reach us on time. This was at least possible, and after I gave an email address and asked for it to be properly delivered, we were told that this could only be done in the afternoon because, at the moment, for reasons I honestly didn’t quite understand, the system couldn’t do it right now. It was also noticeable that this responsible large office was staffed with at least ten employees. Half of them were obviously electricians in their work uniforms, and all made the impression that they were more twiddling their thumbs than actually working on a Friday midmorning when we were there for an hour. We had no choice but to leave this bizarre location without a payout and without an electricity bill. We, of course, waited in vain for the announced email at 2:00 p.m. Only my wife believed in it; she called again, and they said that maybe only emails ending in .com could be sent. A corresponding change, as requested, unfortunately, could not solve this problem either. We will try our luck again next month, armed with the required papers…

[4myr]

@sathornlover

 well, never a boring time in Thailand ;). May I ask which PEA province this is? 

 

When we visited the PEA desk to ask about how the billing and crediting would occur, they said we had a choice of 2 [debit & credit separately] or 1 aggregated monthly bill.

 

Have you checked the PEA smart app? There you can see your monthly bills. I don't know if they will report credit bills as well.

[sathornlover]

here's a quick update on the payment of the surplus amount, I didn't address the strange meter discrepancy that is now being discussed in this thread:  “Apparent discrepancy between metering systems” during our current visit.

 

After our first unsuccessful appearance at PEA, we tried for the second time this week. This time at least we were lucky. Instead of dealing with a clueless representative, this time we were lucky enough to actually get in touch with the employee responsible, who was able to give us more reliable information. But some of this information was even more unpleasant. For example, we were told that in the event of a longer stay abroad, we would have to send an authorized representative who would have to appear every month. When my wife intervened, they at least agreed that this could be discussed in the team, whether this would be possible only every two or three months, although we came with all the necessary documents, the payment process for the first and second electricity bill could now take place, but we would not have received the money until the 16th at the earliest, i.e. ten days later. Which would then require another visit.

 

So of course we asked for the money to be transferred to an account. Of course, we had a copy of the bank book with us, but it turned out that there was only one bank that could be used for this, namely the PEA's house bank Krungthai. So we had no choice but to march off again and reopen a bank account with Krung Thai, of all banks, just for this purpose, which from my memory is one of the worst and I therefore closed it after a short time.

 

We then gave the PEA authority a copy of the requested new bank book for each payment in the afternoon. This had to be handwritten on each one, stating "that the account holder agrees that the amount will be transferred to this account" + signature of course ;-). The transfer itself will then take another week ...

[4myr]

On 30 Nov we signed the contract at PEA Phetchaburi.

After more than 270 days that they said that fulfillment of the contract will be done, finally PEA Phetchaburi came to inspect the system. Within 1 hour they finished the inspection. Everything is OK.

Next and last step is a visit next month by an accountant of PEA Prachuap Khiri Khan to sign the selling agreement. On the same day the meter will also be changed.

A friend who is from PEA Pranburi explained us the new situation with the bill:

1) the current A6-ish size bill will be replaced by an A4 size bill.
It contains kwh used and kwh produced amounts. Also the debit/credit amounts. This bill is prepared and printed out at the office and will be delivered monthly to our mailbox. No mobile printout anymore by the delivery man at the gate.

 

2) if there is a credit amount, this can be collected at the PEA office or using the PEA smart app.
I assume some authorisation is necessary to enable promptpay payment by the bank

3) credit amount does not need to be collected every month. If not collected it will accumulate to the next month. 

[4myr]

Finally 2 weeks ago the accountant and a few PEA Prachuap technicians visited us. Changed the meter and contract has been signed.

About the bill:
1) accountant will send the bill on a monthly basis to us. Can also be viewed with PEA Smart app
2) if it is a credit bill, each of them must be signed at the PEA office to collect the money. You don't need to come each month, but every monthly credit bill must be signed. She will check if a collated bill can be produced by the system.

 

To my surprise, just today, the 1st of the month, we got a visit from a PEA pickup with 3 employees.

They came to collect the meter values. It has a lot of values.
Nope, the meter does not have a sim. The accountant is responsible to make up the bill on a monthly basis, after all meter values of electricity sellers in the district have been collected.

[4myr]

A final note on this subject.

 

My new meter is a 5 (100) Amp digital meter.

It has various readings, including the sold amount of electricity.
My new meter has the same service charge of 24.62 baht as the previous meter.

With regards to the invoice.
With PEA smart app I can print the normal invoice and a tax invoice. The format is A4.
I get the invoice on the 5th day of the month. The accountant also sends a more detailed invoice.

 

On the PEA smart invoice there are 3 meter readings of electricity used [ Peak / Off-Peak / High? ], currently at the same price.

Although the meter has readouts on electricity sold, it is not shown on the invoice. Only the total amount.

There is a withholding tax of 1% on the electricity sold.

Because of my low amount used, I still get a discount of 20 baht before VAT.

 

The invoice from the accountant shows the sold amounts split between Peak and Off-Peak, currently at the contracted price of 2.2 baht. It also shows the max actual kw amount sold vs max allowed according to the contract. In my case 3 vs 4.34 kw.
I'll check if I can add one more panel to max out without blowing the DC fuse of the inverter.
 

 

 

[Crossy]

The question is, of course, considering how much you've spent to get approval, just how long will it take to break even?

 

[4myr]

21 hours ago, Crossy said:

The question is, of course, considering how much you've spent to get approval, just how long will it take to break even?

 

Yes true, I need to consult my PEA engineer about this. 

[skorchio]

Seems to me the moral of the story is that the PEA at the moment is not interested in the power purchase. Which seems odd as they are buying at a 50% reduction to what they sell at.

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, skorchio said:

Seems to me the moral of the story is that the PEA at the moment is not interested in the power purchase. Which seems odd as they are buying at a 50% reduction to what they sell at.

 

Yeah, that's one reason we decided to go it alone and have an off-grid system with batteries.

 

More expensive equipment but we DIY'd the system so no installation costs (ok much reduced coz I still ended up paying family for labour).

 

We retain our PEA connection for backup (it also runs the water heaters to keep the meter moving).

[KhunLA]

12 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Yeah, that's one reason we decided to go it alone and have an off-grid system with batteries.

 

More expensive equipment but we DIY'd the system so no installation costs (ok much reduced coz I still ended up paying family for labour).

 

We retain our PEA connection for backup (it also runs the water heaters to keep the meter moving).

Same same, and conx to PEA, JIC, and only thing on the grid is the BEV wall charging cable, which rarely gets used.

 

Not a DIY install, but at the time, don't we would have saved enough to bother.  If another system wanted, very possible, then I would DIY it, as install would not be on a roof, and just a stand alone frame, or storage shed, large enough for 5kW off grid inverter &  ~9 panel system.