Converting Visa on Arrival to Non-O (retirement-based) in Nan Province

[Fore Man]

Hello Mates,

 

A fairy robust septuagenarian, I am relocating back to LOS next year after spending the past 3+ years in the US with my Thai wife.  Whereas we lived in Chiang Mai for 16 straight years before returning to the States, this time we will be resettling in upper Nan Province where we own property.  I try to keep up with the latest in Thai Immigration policies but seem to be stymied by this one:  Can I enter Thailand with a Visa on Arrival next year and then apply for a Non-O in the Nan Immigration Office, followed by an extension of stay based on retirement?  I already have a bank account solely in my name established in a Nan City bank, but will need to deposit enough to cover the THB 800K requirement several months prior to my return.  I'd heard anecdotally that Nan Immigration may not authorize this type of conversion whereas most provinces do, such as in Chiang Mai and BKK.  I am also of the understanding that I must submit my application only to the Nan office as we have no legal domicile in any other location.  

 

If anyone knows of a good agent up in Nan, please do suggest them to me.  I normally did not use agents when living in Chiang Mai except for my annual retirement extension of stay, and once I've converted to a Non-O visa, I will probably just do the annual paperwork myself.  

 

Thanks in advance for any advice and cheers...

[flyingtlger]

9 minutes ago, Fore Man said:

I normally did not use agents when living in Chiang Mai except for my annual retirement extension of stay, and once I've converted to a Non-O visa

Why don't you ask your agent in CM and see if they know someone that help you in Nan. A lot of these agents are connected.

[Ralf001]

US passport holders can enter visa exempt... why are you going Visa On Arrival ?

[Fore Man]

Right!  I meant to say that I plan to enter Visa Exempt. Can such a short term visa be converted to a Non-O, then extended for purposes of retirement?

 

what I’d really like to avoid is going the Thai Consulate route and acquiring my visa in the U.S.  We live 500 miles from the DC consulate and would incur big expenses to drive up there and spend the necessary day or two lodging in that costly area.  
 

I’d heard that a tourist visa can be extended once in country. 

[kiwikeith]

1 hour ago, Fore Man said:

Right!  I meant to say that I plan to enter Visa Exempt. Can such a short term visa be converted to a Non-O, then extended for purposes of retirement?

 

what I’d really like to avoid is going the Thai Consulate route and acquiring my visa in the U.S.  We live 500 miles from the DC consulate and would incur big expenses to drive up there and spend the necessary day or two lodging in that costly area.  
 

I’d heard that a tourist visa can be extended once in country. 

I think you can extend your 30 day visa and then apply for the non O, Ubon Joe is one to ask, 

[Fore Man]

1 hour ago, kiwikeith said:

I think you can extend your 30 day visa and then apply for the non O, Ubon Joe is one to ask, 

Thanks; that’s what I thought too…but I seem to recall that an IO in Nan nixed that idea when I asked her last August during a home visit with my wife. I believe but am not sure that what you proposed can be accomplished, but perhaps not all provincial IOs are in agreement. 

[Andrew Dwyer]

You can indeed enter visa exempt ( 30 days ) and apply for an O visa ( 90 days ) which can in turn be extended ( the permission to stay not the visa ) for 1 year based on retirement or marriage.

 

 The 30 days is sufficient to apply for the O visa , but best to apply a few days after entering the country, as said above a 30 days extension of your visa exempt stay is available if required.

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, Fore Man said:

Right!  I meant to say that I plan to enter Visa Exempt. Can such a short term visa be converted to a Non-O, then extended for purposes of retirement?

 

what I’d really like to avoid is going the Thai Consulate route and acquiring my visa in the U.S.  We live 500 miles from the DC consulate and would incur big expenses to drive up there and spend the necessary day or two lodging in that costly area.  
 

I’d heard that a tourist visa can be extended once in country. 

By law it can be done but some Imm offices refuse.  I have no idea re Nan.

 

Visa application from US is now done entirely  online. No need to visit  Embassy.

 

https://www.thaievisa.go.th/

 

 

[bigt3116]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

By law it can be done but some Imm offices refuse. 

Never heard of any office refusing to issue a Non-O

[bigt3116]

15 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

The 30 days is sufficient to apply for the O visa ,

You need at least 15 days, (some offices require 15 working days), left on your current permission of stay to apply

[DrJack54]

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1297092-non-o-visa-retirement-purpose/

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1285917-exempt-visa-entry-to-non-o-retirement-1-extension/

Edited July 25, 2023 by DrJack54

[Andrew Dwyer]

36 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

You need at least 15 days, (some offices require 15 working days), left on your current permission of stay to apply

Yes , that’s why I recommended applying soon after entering.

 I believe 1, or more IO’s, request 21 days of exempt stay , not 100 % sure of that but it is always good to prepare well in advance where immigration offices are concerned .

[BritTim]

What you plan is doable. If you run into a complete roadblock in Nan, here are two alternatives:

1. Go to Savannakhet Laos, and apply for the Non O visa there (which is placed in your passport the next day).
2. It is possible to apply for a Non O visa at Chaengwattana in Bangkok from a hotel. They accept the explanation that you are newly arrived and still looking for somewhere permanent to live. However, this will require three visits to Bangkok (application, return after under consideration period, and first extension). Surely, a single visit to Savannakhet will be more convenient unless you have other reasons to come to Bangkok.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

Never heard of any office refusing to issue a Non-O

There have been some reports of it on this board but I do not recall which offices it was. 

 

An advanrage to getting a non-O in home country is that if makes it easier to open a bank acvount.

 

Seems OP's only reason for wanting to come VE was he thought getting a visa still  required in perdon trip to Embassy.

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

There have been some reports of it on this board but I do not recall which offices it was. 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1296821-some-imm-offices-refusing-to-do-the-change-of-visa-process-applying-for-90-day-non-imm-o-visa-from-a-visaexempt-entry/

[Fore Man]

17 hours ago, BritTim said:

What you plan is doable. If you run into a complete roadblock in Nan, here are two alternatives:

1. Go to Savannakhet Laos, and apply for the Non O visa there (which is placed in your passport the next day).
2. It is possible to apply for a Non O visa at Chaengwattana in Bangkok from a hotel. They accept the explanation that you are newly arrived and still looking for somewhere permanent to live. However, this will require three visits to Bangkok (application, return after under consideration period, and first extension). Surely, a single visit to Savannakhet will be more convenient unless you have other reasons to come to Bangkok.

Great advice; thanks BritTim

[Fore Man]

20 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

You can indeed enter visa exempt ( 30 days ) and apply for an O visa ( 90 days ) which can in turn be extended ( the permission to stay not the visa ) for 1 year based on retirement or marriage.

 

 The 30 days is sufficient to apply for the O visa , but best to apply a few days after entering the country, as said above a 30 days extension of your visa exempt stay is available if required.

Much obliged, Andrew.  When my wife and I met with the Nan IO last July, I am almost sure we didn't mention the idea of first obtaining an O visa and then using that as our basis for extension based on retirement.  We have friends in Nan and will ask them to pay a visit to that same IO to confirm the advice you have given.  And as others on this thread have suggested, obtaining a visa from the Washington, DC consulate isn't the onsite hassle it was in the past.  I will investigate that route first.

[DrJack54]

3 hours ago, Fore Man said:

 We have friends in Nan and will ask them to pay a visit to that same IO to confirm the advice you have given

A tip for asking Nan immigration about "conversion" from visa exempt entry to a Non O retirement is to have friends take along a TM87 form.

This is the form used for the conversion process. 

A simple google provides a download. 

[sirineou]

I came visa exempt last October In Khon Kaen  and did exactly what you propose , Not a problem, noone even  batted an eye. 

But I was out of Thailand for only four months and before departing I has a one year extension to stay. Also everyone at the IO know both me and the wife because we have been there hundreds of times. 

  I don't think you would have a problem. But why don't you have the wife call them ? Here in KKC they always unswere an are always helpful with information, I am sure it is probably the same in Nan. 

Have a good trip , I am sure you are excited to be getting back, Where in the US are you? 

[Hakuna Matata]

Visa conversion scheme is questionable and probably illegal. A huge source of income for corrupt immigration officers.

 

Visa cannot be just converted, this is ridiculous!

[Hakuna Matata]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

A tip for asking Nan immigration about "conversion" from visa exempt entry to a Non O retirement is to have friends take along a TM87 form.

This is the form used for the conversion process. 

A simple google provides a download. 

According to the Law, you can apply for visa only outside the country you want to enter.

[Andrew Dwyer]

27 minutes ago, Hakuna Matata said:

According to the Law, you can apply for visa only outside the country you want to enter.

Here we go again, every time someone mentions getting an O visa here in Thailand you pop up with this statement.

 

Please post a link where it states you can only apply for a visa outside the country you want to enter.

 

I obtained an O visa here in Thailand using an immigration office and went through the procedure, highlighted in DrJack’s photo above, as have many others before me.

No shortcuts or tea money or agents required, all above board and perfectly legal.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Andrew Dwyer

[stix40]

No problem converting exempt tourist visa to non o in Thailand.

Use the TM 87 form at the local immigration office.

If you need lots of time to prepare.

Get a 30 day extension and then get a 60 day extension based on marriage following wife.

????

[Yeah rightio]

25 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Here we go again, every time someone mentions getting an O visa here in Thailand you pop up with this statement.

 

Please post a link where it states you can only apply for a visa outside the country you want to enter.

 

I obtained an O visa here in Thailand using an immigration office and went through the procedure, highlighted in DrJack’s photo above, as have many others before me.

No shortcuts or tea money or agents required, all above board and perfectly legal.

Same same @Andrew Dwyer 

Baht 2000 fee + 800,000 in bank for 2 months to apply for non O, then 1900 fee for 12 months extension. All done at immigration office, legal and above board.

@Hakuna Matata seems to be

one of those rare birds who know everything but know  nothing and speaks out of their colaca.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Yeah rightio

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, Hakuna Matata said:

According to the Law, you can apply for visa only outside the country you want to enter.

Would you care to explain the purpose of the very official TM87 and TM86 forms specifically designed to apply for a visa at an immigration office? You can go to almost all immigration offices in Thailand and use those forms. Perhaps, you believe that these were simply created by corrupt immigration officials, and the under consideration period (where your application is scrutinised at Division headquarters) is simply a clever scam to allow the corrupt agents and officials to extract more money. They very cleverly also have an official price list which lists the visa at 2,000 baht, and produce a very official looking receipt. To me, that nationwide conspiracy looks like a great deal of effort to go to for a measly 2,000 baht each time.

[SmokeandIce]

On 7/24/2023 at 3:32 PM, Fore Man said:

Right!  I meant to say that I plan to enter Visa Exempt. Can such a short term visa be converted to a Non-O, then extended for purposes of retirement?

 

what I’d really like to avoid is going the Thai Consulate route and acquiring my visa in the U.S.  We live 500 miles from the DC consulate and would incur big expenses to drive up there and spend the necessary day or two lodging in that costly area.  
 

I’d heard that a tourist visa can be extended once in country. 

I don't think Thai embassies allow visits for visas in the U.S.; everything is done online and passports are mailed.

 

The easiest option (in my opinion) is to arrive visa exempt and convert to a 3 month Non O and then after 2 months extend for one year.

 

Easy to do yourself no agent necessary.

Edited July 26, 2023 by SmokeandIce

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, SmokeandIce said:

I don't think Thai embassies allow visits for visas in the U.S.; everything is done online and passports are mailed.

In the US, everything is now done through the e-visa system online. Nothing is mailed in either direction. You upload required documents electronically, and you receive a visa as an attachment via email which you print before travelling.

[SmokeandIce]

13 hours ago, BritTim said:

In the US, everything is now done through the e-visa system online. Nothing is mailed in either direction. You upload required documents electronically, and you receive a visa as an attachment via email which you print before travelling.

Thanks for the info.  

[Fore Man]

Dear fellow posters,

 

I have looked into applying for a visa through the Thai Consulate website in Washington, DC.  It looks like a straightforward effort to complete the online application, albeit a stilted experience in mastering the site's peculiarities.  But I could not find any reference to a Type 0 Non-immigrant visa.  The only choice that I could see germane to my situation was the type 0-X visa...pertaining to a non-immigrant married to a Thai spouse.  So I dutifully began the electronic application leading to this type of visa.  Is this the correct visa for my situation?  I am a year away from our anticipated departure from the USA so cannot complete the entire application at this time....have no airline booked yet because we don't really know exactly when we will be ready to fly.  Does anyone know how long the site will retain my information before deleting it from inactivity?

Thanks in advance for all responses.

[Red Phoenix]

On 7/25/2023 at 3:05 AM, Andrew Dwyer said:

Yes , that’s why I recommended applying soon after entering.

 I believe 1, or more IO’s, request 21 days of exempt stay , not 100 % sure of that but it is always good to prepare well in advance where immigration offices are concerned .

Yes, at most Imm offices the standard to apply from a VisaExempt (or Tourist Visa) entry for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa, is that the application needs to be done when you still have at least 15 days left on your Permission to stay. 

The reason for this is that such 90-day Non Imm O Visa application needs Divisional Immigration Headquarter's approval.  As the local Imm Offices dread to have an application which they issued to Div HQ rejected or questioned, when your application is approved at local Imm Office level, that Div HQ approval is merely a bureaucratic process.

But it is wise to inform yourself in advance about the required number of days left on your Permission to stay at the local Imm Office where you plan to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa.

At some Imm Offices (e.g. Chiang Mai) they require 21 days and in Phuket they require 15 WORKING days. 

Normally not a problem, because when not having sufficient time for preparing your application you can always apply for a 30-day extension of stay at your local Imm Office, those extra days will be added to your Permission to stay expiry date and the 30-day extension is provided on the spot (cost 1.900 THB).