Those who have had their accounts closed by UK banks

[Pumpuynarak]

3 minutes ago, Mutt Daeng said:

A Limited POA would probably do the job.

https://www.thelegalstop.co.uk/Business/Limited-Power-of-Attorney--Individual.html

Thanks, my son sorted the POA out on my last UK visit, all i did was signed the form but i would not think he would set up anything with any restrictions but i'll check with him. I just want him to have the authority to close the account in the event of my death and then transfer the dosh to my Thai wifey. 

If it is permissable according to the POA for him to go into HSBC and change the account to a joint account by adding his name then that would be fine, job done.    

[Mike Teavee]

23 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

Thanks, my son sorted the POA out on my last UK visit, all i did was signed the form but i would not think he would set up anything with any restrictions but i'll check with him. I just want him to have the authority to close the account in the event of my death and then transfer the dosh to my Thai wifey. 

If it is permissable according to the POA for him to go into HSBC and change the account to a joint account by adding his name then that would be fine, job done.    

If it's a sole account in your name your Son would not be able to close it after your death even if he has a POA as your account would be frozen until the Probate has been sorted out. 

 

If it's a joint account then the money should automatically revert to him (Rule of Survivorship) BUT this could be challenged by other people who have a legitimate claim on your estate (e.g. if you had other children).

 

This article describes one such instance where the joint account holder (her son) was forced to pay the money back to the estate 

https://www.gadlegal.co.uk/news/elder-law/the-inherent-dangers-of-joint-bank-accounts

[Pumpuynarak]

1 minute ago, Mike Teavee said:

If it's a sole account in your name your Son would not be able to close it after your death even if he has a POA as your account would be frozen until the Probate has been sorted out. 

 

If it's a joint account then the money should automatically revert to him (Rule of Survivorship) BUT this could be challenged by other people who have a legitimate claim on your estate (e.g. if you had other children).

 

This article describes one such instance where the joint account holder (her son) was forced to pay the money back to the estate 

https://www.gadlegal.co.uk/news/elder-law/the-inherent-dangers-of-joint-bank-accounts

Thanks great info. I don't have any assets in the UK other than my HSBC account which is in my sole name with my son as POA. I have no will. I am in the process of making it a joint account with my son as i understand what you say regarding my death and the issues with POA.

[Keith5588]

Hi,
I am from the UK but now retired and living in Thailand.
I still have a UK bank current account. My main assets are still in the UK, savings, house that I rent out, pensions, and I pay UK tax.

I think most of us need to still have a bank/building society in our home country mainly to have money paid into and to make transfers from. We may or may not need a debit and credit card.
 

I have used building society Fixed interest accounts, sometimes they insist on opening an instant access account but I have never actually wanted to use the instant access account.

I still have some fixed interest savings accounts and I think a couple of instant access accounts.

 

So my question is assuming a debit and credit card is not needed would a building society instant access be adequate for a UK expat living in Thailand? 

Or is there a reason why they would need a bank current account?
I am wondering when withdrawing money from a building society instant access account can you pay any external account or do you have to transfer the money out to your nominated bank current account?

Thanks in advance
Keith

[BritManToo]

12 minutes ago, Keith5588 said:

I think most of us need to still have a bank/building society in our home country mainly to have money paid into and to make transfers from. We may or may not need a debit and credit card.

Open a Revolut bank account.

They have virtual and real debit cards.

Pal of mine just opened one using a UK address he lived at more than 30 years past.

[Keith5588]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Open a Revolut bank account.

They have virtual and real debit cards.

Pal of mine just opened one using a UK address he lived at more than 30 years past.

Thank you @BritManToo I have added to do just that just before I go to visit the UK next year, much appreciated.

[VBF]

On 10/9/2023 at 2:55 AM, Keith5588 said:

Hi,
I am from the UK but now retired and living in Thailand.
I still have a UK bank current account. My main assets are still in the UK, savings, house that I rent out, pensions, and I pay UK tax.

I think most of us need to still have a bank/building society in our home country mainly to have money paid into and to make transfers from. We may or may not need a debit and credit card.
 

I have used building society Fixed interest accounts, sometimes they insist on opening an instant access account but I have never actually wanted to use the instant access account.

I still have some fixed interest savings accounts and I think a couple of instant access accounts.

 

So my question is assuming a debit and credit card is not needed would a building society instant access be adequate for a UK expat living in Thailand? 

Or is there a reason why they would need a bank current account?
I am wondering when withdrawing money from a building society instant access account can you pay any external account or do you have to transfer the money out to your nominated bank current account?

Thanks in advance
Keith

In my opinion only (!) if it was, for example, a Nationwide Flex a/c https://www.nationwide.co.uk/current-accounts/flexaccount/ then yes, because it will allow you to set up Direct Debits and / or transfer money to other accounts, including abroad. (Various links emanating from the one I posted refer)

 

However......  it does say you need to be a UK resident - I don't know if HMRC regards you as such, given what you say about your main assets and paying tax.

You would need to check that point carefully.

[OJAS]

On 10/10/2023 at 3:15 PM, VBF said:

In my opinion only (!) if it was, for example, a Nationwide Flex a/c https://www.nationwide.co.uk/current-accounts/flexaccount/ then yes, because it will allow you to set up Direct Debits and / or transfer money to other accounts, including abroad. (Various links emanating from the one I posted refer)

 

However......  it does say you need to be a UK resident - I don't know if HMRC regards you as such, given what you say about your main assets and paying tax.

You would need to check that point carefully.

I strongly suspect that it will be more for Nationwide to decide whether @Keith5588 constitutes a UK resident within the meaning of their terms and conditions. However, it doesn't look to me like his chances of being regarded as such are that great.

 

That said, If he still considers it worthwhile seeking clarification of his residency status from HMRC, then the following link would appear to be a good starting-point:-

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rdr3-statutory-residence-test-srt/guidance-note-for-statutory-residence-test-srt-rdr3

 

[Mike Teavee]

On 10/10/2023 at 3:15 PM, VBF said:

In my opinion only (!) if it was, for example, a Nationwide Flex a/c https://www.nationwide.co.uk/current-accounts/flexaccount/ then yes, because it will allow you to set up Direct Debits and / or transfer money to other accounts, including abroad. (Various links emanating from the one I posted refer)

 

However......  it does say you need to be a UK resident - I don't know if HMRC regards you as such, given what you say about your main assets and paying tax.

You would need to check that point carefully.

UK Tax Resident check will tell you whether you're Tax Resident or not... https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/residence#:~:text=for tax purposes.-,UK tests,days of the tax year

 

At it's simplest, more than 183 days in the UK = Tax Resident, less than 16 days in the UK = non-tax resident, but in between these it depends on your history/"Home Ties"... 

 

E.g. I know I can spend at least 40 days in the UK as I've been Non-Tax resident for > 3 years but think if I spend > 90 days I'll be tax resident because I have 2 "Home Ties". 

 

BUT all that aside, being UK Resident & being UK Tax Resident are not necessarily the same thing, if I was to go to the UK for 91 days and declare myself UK Tax Resident I still wouldn't be UK Resident as I don't live there.  

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[hotandsticky]

On 10/10/2023 at 3:15 PM, VBF said:

In my opinion only (!) if it was, for example, a Nationwide Flex a/c https://www.nationwide.co.uk/current-accounts/flexaccount/ then yes, because it will allow you to set up Direct Debits and / or transfer money to other accounts, including abroad. (Various links emanating from the one I posted refer)

 

However......  it does say you need to be a UK resident - I don't know if HMRC regards you as such, given what you say about your main assets and paying tax.

You would need to check that point carefully.

 

There is a difference between being UK resident for tax purposes and what the banks may view as being resident. Recently, Nationwide introduced an excellent Saver account paying 8%...part of the requirements for opining that account was that you had to be a "UK resident for tax purposes". Barclays (when closing accounts) focused on domicile and stated “Our Barclays UK products are designed for customers within the UK. We will no longer be offering personal current or savings accounts to retail customers with addresses registered with us outside of the United Kingdom".

 

WHAT IS A NON-RESIDENT?

As regards UK tax, a “non-resident” is someone who does not live permanently in the UK but who earns taxable UK income. This includes many UK expats, of course, with many earning income from UK rental property and other UK sources. Non-residents only pay UK tax on their UK income, not on income from another country (although tax may be payable in that tax jurisdiction).

HMRC RESIDENCY/NON-RESIDENCY TESTS

The total days you spend in the UK within a tax year (ie 6 April to 5 April) determines your tax status as either a UK resident or non-resident for tax purposes. 

You’ll automatically be considered non-resident if:

you spend less than 16 days in the UK in a tax year (or 46 days if you have not been classed UK resident for the three previous tax years) or

you work abroad full-time (ie at least 35 hours in an average week) and were in the UK for less than 91 days and no more than 30 of these were spent working in the UK.

You’ll automatically be considered UK resident if:

you spent 183 or more days in the UK in the tax year or

your only home was in the UK and it was available to you for at least 91 days in the tax year and you lived there for at least 30 days or

you worked full-time in the UK for 365 days and at least one of these days fell within the specific tax year.

You may also be considered resident under HMRC’s “ties test” if you spent time in the UK and have additional links such as work or family here.

Top tip! To find out whether you were a UK resident or not in any tax year from 6 April 2016, you can use HMRC’s online residence status checker. Government website GOV.uk provides details about the government’s Statutory Residence Test, which further explains many of the above points.

 

 

 

[hotandsticky]

On 10/9/2023 at 8:55 AM, Keith5588 said:

Hi,
I am from the UK but now retired and living in Thailand.
I still have a UK bank current account. My main assets are still in the UK, savings, house that I rent out, pensions, and I pay UK tax.

I think most of us need to still have a bank/building society in our home country mainly to have money paid into and to make transfers from. We may or may not need a debit and credit card.
 

I have used building society Fixed interest accounts, sometimes they insist on opening an instant access account but I have never actually wanted to use the instant access account.

I still have some fixed interest savings accounts and I think a couple of instant access accounts.

 

So my question is assuming a debit and credit card is not needed would a building society instant access be adequate for a UK expat living in Thailand? 

Or is there a reason why they would need a bank current account?
I am wondering when withdrawing money from a building society instant access account can you pay any external account or do you have to transfer the money out to your nominated bank current account?

Thanks in advance
Keith

 

Short answer "no". The instant access savings has limited use.

 

I am not sure what your concern is. I may have failed to join up the dots here but I thought that you were going back to the UK for 6 months (to sell the rental house?).

 

Having a UK address is the most important thing and will probably keep you under the 'expat exclusion' radar. Nationwide, IMO, are less likely to proactive action like Barclays are doing. If you have family in the UK, use their address as your correspondence address - if you are visiting the UK for a lengthy period that is the ideal time to get the address changed.  

 

I like WISE as a back up. They are ideal for transferring money to and holding funds for a short time.

Edited October 12, 2023 by hotandsticky

[VBF]

7 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

UK Tax Resident check will tell you whether you're Tax Resident or not... https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/residence#:~:text=for tax purposes.-,UK tests,days of the tax year

 

At it's simplest, more than 183 days in the UK = Tax Resident, less than 16 days in the UK = non-tax resident, but in between these it depends on your history/"Home Ties"... 

 

E.g. I know I can spend at least 40 days in the UK as I've been Non-Tax resident for > 3 years but think if I spend > 90 days I'll be tax resident because I have 2 "Home Ties". 

 

BUT all that aside, being UK Resident & being UK Tax Resident are not necessarily the same thing, if I was to go to the UK for 91 days and declare myself UK Tax Resident I still wouldn't be UK Resident as I don't live there.  

 

That was why I said and repeat (also to @hotandsticky)  "You would need to check that point carefully."  Everyone's circumstances are different and I'm NOT a tax professional.

Edited October 12, 2023 by VBF

[hotandsticky]

2 hours ago, VBF said:

That was why I said and repeat (also to @hotandsticky)  "You would need to check that point carefully."  Everyone's circumstances are different and I'm NOT a tax professional.

To be fair, you don't need to be a tax professional to establish whether you are UK tax resident, or not.

 

The ability to read and, more importantly, comprehend the HMRC guidelines is sufficient.

[Chris Daley]

I have no money in it so they can shove it up their ass for all care.

[Keith5588]

10 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

Short answer "no". The instant access savings has limited use.

 

I am not sure what your concern is. I may have failed to join up the dots here but I thought that you were going back to the UK for 6 months (to sell the rental house?).

 

Having a UK address is the most important thing and will probably keep you under the 'expat exclusion' radar. Nationwide, IMO, are less likely to proactive action like Barclays are doing. If you have family in the UK, use their address as your correspondence address - if you are visiting the UK for a lengthy period that is the ideal time to get the address changed.  

 

I like WISE as a back up. They are ideal for transferring money to and holding funds for a short time.

Thank you @hotandsticky for your replies, you are very knowledgeable.

I am not overly concerned at the moment as I do have a UK bank current account but reading this and another thread caused me to think of my options if my bank current account was ever closed.

I am planning to visit the UK next year but not to sell my house. I want to do a bit of work at my house and to show my gf/partner some places in the UK.

I do use WISE to transfer money and will open an account with them in the future.  

Thanks again.

[hotandsticky]

2 hours ago, Keith5588 said:

Thank you @hotandsticky for your replies, you are very knowledgeable.

I am not overly concerned at the moment as I do have a UK bank current account but reading this and another thread caused me to think of my options if my bank current account was ever closed.

I am planning to visit the UK next year but not to sell my house. I want to do a bit of work at my house and to show my gf/partner some places in the UK.

I do use WISE to transfer money and will open an account with them in the future.  

Thanks again.

You are very welcome; enjoy your U.K. trip and the experience of showing your GF some places in your country. I thoroughly enjoyed showing mine around and repaying some of the kindness in showing me many parts of Thailand.

 

It took me 65 years to see Land’s End and John O’Groats - she saw them both in one year!

 

I was fortunate that she wanted to broaden her mind with the experiences in another country (not a common trait amongst Thais) and she was as happy frolicking with sheep on Lakeland fells, as she was eating a roast lamb Sunday dinner in a Coniston pub..

 

 

 

 

[VBF]

21 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

To be fair, you don't need to be a tax professional to establish whether you are UK tax resident, or not.

 

The ability to read and, more importantly, comprehend the HMRC guidelines is sufficient.

Yes, that's correct...BUT, it can be a case of "The devil's in the detail"

 

I got into a mess with Inland Revenue (now HMRC) a long time ago. The tax professional I used, and still use, got me out of trouble legally and told me how to avoid getting into bother again. He also continues to monitor my financial affairs and gives me good advice on legally avoiding tax all of which helps me sleep nights!

His fees were and are much less than the amount of tax IR was trying to get out of me!

I repeat that everyone's circumstances are different, not to be difficult, but to stress that it's all too easy to fall into lawbreaking unwittingly.