Thaksin’s imminent return stirs hope, anxiety in Thailand

[scorecard]

On 8/4/2023 at 10:47 AM, Artisi said:

Correct, but certainly responsible for not having those responsible for these acts removed from their positions and tried for the deaths of these people. By doing S F A he in effect agreed with and condoned their actions, therefore he's just as guilty by default. 

And reinforced that the military are untouchable, even by a sitting PM.

[anchadian]

Although ousted & fugitive former premier #Thaksin said yest his doctor wants him for a checkup so he won't be returning to #Thailand yet, Cambodia's Fresh News reported he & Yingluck flew to Cambodia on Fri to say HBD to Hun Sen & stayed for a night & had breakfast with Hun Sen.

 

https://twitter.com/PravitR/status/1688035593367003137

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

And reinforced that the military are untouchable, even by a sitting PM.

What is more intriguing is "on who's authority" ????????????

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Artisi said:

At the end of the day, they had to borrow from loan sharks anyway to pay back their "loan" from the village fund which was due for repayment after 12 months. So as they say in Thailand - same same.

Plus there is still millions missing from this scheme with much of it in the pockets people who were supposed to distribute it fairly. 

But as I said - it's ok, it got the necessary votes. 

of course another way is to have a coup and steal the country at gunpoint backed by tanks. That way you can have everything and simply ignore the voters wishes and do nothing for them at all.

 

The government funds can then be split up with your mates.

 

Does that sound familiar?

 

That is where Thailand is now, where 250 non elected people, described as senators, are defying the votes of over 14 million voters.

 

Is tgat how you think Thailand should be run?

[billd766]

11 minutes ago, Artisi said:

What is more intriguing is "on who's authority" ????????????

I could guess "on who's authority", but I would not be permitted to speak the name of that person.

[scorecard]

7 minutes ago, billd766 said:

of course another way is to have a coup and steal the country at gunpoint backed by tanks. That way you can have everything and simply ignore the voters wishes and do nothing for them at all.

 

The government funds can then be split up with your mates.

 

Does that sound familiar?

 

That is where Thailand is now, where 250 non elected people, described as senators, are defying the votes of over 14 million voters.

 

Is tgat how you think Thailand should be run?

Well seems to me that nobody is suggesting he current picture id OK and nobody is suggesting the military should hold such power.

[Artisi]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

of course another way is to have a coup and steal the country at gunpoint backed by tanks. That way you can have everything and simply ignore the voters wishes and do nothing for them at all.

 

The government funds can then be split up with your mates.

 

Does that sound familiar?

 

That is where Thailand is now, where 250 non elected people, described as senators, are defying the votes of over 14 million voters.

 

Is tgat how you think Thailand should be run?

No, I don't think that's how it should be run and you well know that.

The comment you responded to was to counter the comment that making a loan (call it a bribe) to the rural people is better than them going to a loan shark - that many ended up doing anyway to pay back the bribe. 

I and my wife bailed 2 families out of this prediction by advancing the money to repay the "loan" with them making affordable monthly payments to us over the next 12/18 months. 

[Hunz Kittisak]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

His imminent return is still in the news, yearly, since he left in 2006 ????

 

I guess he'll hit Elvis status after he dies, and 'seen' somewhere by someone.  He is 74 already.

I’ll say he has another 20 years ahead at least 

if Prem can live so long why not Thaksin? 
 

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, Hunz Kittisak said:

I’ll say he has another 20 years ahead at least 

if Prem can live so long why not Thaksin?

Maybe ... or not.  Born 1949

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/THA/thailand/life-expectancy

[bannork]

1 hour ago, anchadian said:

Although ousted & fugitive former premier #Thaksin said yest his doctor wants him for a checkup so he won't be returning to #Thailand yet, Cambodia's Fresh News reported he & Yingluck flew to Cambodia on Fri to say HBD to Hun Sen & stayed for a night & had breakfast with Hun Sen.

 

https://twitter.com/PravitR/status/1688035593367003137

Thaksin hobnobbing with dictators, is that what the doctor ordered? 

'Mr Thaksin, your blood pressure is too high worrying about your accomodation on your return to Thailand. I recommend you find a strongman to relax with, someone who has no problems about democracy.

Mr Putin? No, you won't be happy eating dinners 10 metres away from each other, too much shouting.

Someone  closer to home, a man of your own heart.'

Pass the sick bag (again), Alice.

 

[scorecard]

54 minutes ago, billd766 said:

of course another way is to have a coup and steal the country at gunpoint backed by tanks. That way you can have everything and simply ignore the voters wishes and do nothing for them at all.

 

The government funds can then be split up with your mates.

 

Does that sound familiar?

 

That is where Thailand is now, where 250 non elected people, described as senators, are defying the votes of over 14 million voters.

 

Is tgat how you think Thailand should be run?

To Billd776

 

Seems to me you are arguing with yourself.

 

You have asked whether it's all OK for the military to take over... more times than I can count.

 

And lost count of how many times members (incl. me) have agreed 'IT'S NOT OK'. 

[billd766]

52 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Well seems to me that nobody is suggesting he current picture id OK and nobody is suggesting the military should hold such power.

It seems to me to be Catch 22 problem where to get rid of the military in government.

 

As they are in power at this time the only way to achieve that is for the current government to allow themselves to be removed, the 250 senators to be removed and the constitution to be changed.

 

There is no way that the current government and the senators will vote for that, hence Catch 22.

[billd766]

8 minutes ago, scorecard said:

To Billd776

 

Seems to me you are arguing with yourself.

 

You have asked whether it's all OK for the military to take over... more times than I can count.

 

And lost count of how many times members (incl. me) have agreed 'IT'S NOT OK'. 

And I have lost count of the times that I have pointed out that in reality NOTHING will change or can be changed by anybody on ANN/TVF no matter how many posters agree that it is NOT OK.

[bannork]

6 minutes ago, billd766 said:

It seems to me to be Catch 22 problem where to get rid of the military in government.

 

As they are in power at this time the only way to achieve that is for the current government to allow themselves to be removed, thoe 250 senators to be removed and the constitution to be changed.

 

There is no way that the current government and the senators will vote for that, hence Catch 22.

Hang on, after May the senators remain in power until May but from then on they lose the power to vote for the PM.

Whoever comes to be PM, there should be enough votes from MF, PT and other coalition parties or outside, to push for a new constitution written by elected officials 

Of course the elite may dissolve MF first but that's another story 

[Burma Bill]

On 8/2/2023 at 9:08 AM, webfact said:

homecoming after 15 years of self-imposed exile

Well, he and his sister were almost home this weekend 5 - 6 August 2023 and just over the border!

Reference today's "The Nation" (source Phnom Penh Post) 6 August 2023.

 

In a surprising turn of events, former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and Yingluck Shinawatra attended the birthday celebrations of Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen on August 5. The festive occasion marked Hun Sen's 72nd birthday.

The relationship between Hun Sen and Thaksin dates back to 1992 when they became God brothers. They have maintained a close connection ever since, even though Thaksin and his sister Yingluck were both ousted from power through coups. The unexpected attendance of the Shinawatras at Hun Sen's birthday adds a new chapter to this intriguing political relationship.

https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/politics/40029982

 

Intriguing indeed! Will Hun Sen become the new PM of Thailand whilst his son is PM of Cambodia??? (only joking)

Now we know how possibly easy it was for them to "escape" from Thailand.

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Burma Bill
additional information

[scorecard]

46 minutes ago, billd766 said:

And I have lost count of the times that I have pointed out that in reality NOTHING will change or can be changed by anybody on ANN/TVF no matter how many posters agree that it is NOT OK.

And many many others share your frustration.

 

But please don't keep bashing your head against the wall.

 

There does seem to be a possibility of change re the senators next May, but yes it's a frustrating waiting game. 

[Robin]

Taksin was the first modern politician in Thailand.  He stood for election with Policies and followed these through when elected.

That was what frightened he Establishment.

His policies actually benefited poor people so they were called 'populist'  In that case every Western politician is just a guilty as Taksin of 'populism'

 

Combine Taksin and Pita and there might be a hope that Thailand moves forward

Taksin gave us Retirement Visas.

[Eric Loh]

4 hours ago, Artisi said:

At the end of the day, they had to borrow from loan sharks anyway to pay back their "loan" from the village fund which was due for repayment after 12 months. So as they say in Thailand - same same.

Plus there is still millions missing from this scheme with much of it in the pockets people who were supposed to distribute it fairly. 

But as I said - it's ok, it got the necessary votes. 

Nonsense. The NPL for the thousands of village fund programs was only 4%. You are grasping at straw & really know nothing about the success of the village fund. 

[Artisi]

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Nonsense. The NPL for the thousands of village fund programs was only 4%. You are grasping at straw & really know nothing about the success of the village fund. 

And you do of course (know everything) 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

And many many others share your frustration.

 

But please don't keep bashing your head against the wall.

 

There does seem to be a possibility of change re the senators next May, but yes it's a frustrating waiting game. 

I would not hold my breath waiting for that to happen. Unless the current and/or future government changes the rules, there is nothing stopping them from renewing the senators appointments or replacing individual senators. IMHO the only way to do that is to get a brand new civilian government put in charge and a new constitution disbarring all appointed senators.

 

However that will mean scrapping and rewriting the current constitution, getting it vetted by parliament and the Thai citizens, amending it if necessary, then holding a referendum to get the new constitution passed.

 

There is only 9 months left before May 2024, and again in my opinion it will take the best part of 2 years to complete the task.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Nonsense. The NPL for the thousands of village fund programs was only 4%. You are grasping at straw & really know nothing about the success of the village fund. 

Well my Thai son has a buddy who has a royal title and the guys mother an even higher royal title and she was a senior official in the Finance Ministry.

 

When the village fund was announced she was told she needed to sign certain documents. She said she would review the documents and quickly discovered numerous laws and regulation plus serious ethics were being broken. She refused to sign, resigned and walked out on the spot. Then for several days intimidated. 

 

She told her family she was shocked at the attempts to divert large amounts of funds to red shirt operatives and various 'friends' and more. And shared that the benificiaries were not the poor local folks. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by scorecard

[bannork]

Here's an extract from a TDRI report.

 

Somchai Jitsuchon, research director for macroeconomic development at the Thailand Development Research Institute, meanwhile, expressed concerns about how the money was being spent and what impact it was really having despite the so-called promise of a low-interest loans for poor people. 

Instead, he said, the government was in a better position to explain why so many funds were needed and what tangible benefits they had. He also questioned whether those seeking SML loans truly represented the local community as he cited research that less than half of the villagers seeking loans had truly benefited over the past decade. 

 Somchai also questioned the 5-per-cent NPL figure, asking how non-performing loans were calculated. For instance, he said, some villagers borrowed from loan sharks to pay what they owe the village fund – a move that would keep the number of NPLs artificially low and allow them to become eligible for a government loan the following year. “The real NPL figure is most probably between 30 and 40 per cent,” Somchai said, as he called on people to monitor various government funds and find out how they are being used and repaid.

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Well my Thai son has a buddy who has a royal title and the guys mother an even higher royal title and she was a senior official in the Finance Ministry.

 

When the village fund was announced she was told she needed to sign certain documents. She said she would review the documents and quickly discovered numerous laws and regulation plus serious ethics were being broken. She refused to sign, resigned and walked out on the spot. Then for several days intimidated. 

 

She told her family she was shocked at the attempts to divert large amounts of funds to red shirt operatives and various 'friends' and more. And shared that the benificiaries were not the poor local folks. 

Kind of strange when Prayut commented that Village Fund have improved. He didn’t discontinue the program even as you said diverting to the Red Shirts. 

Prime Minister Gen Prayut Chan-o-cha commented this weekend that village and urban community funds have improved the livelihoods of Thai people in all corners of the country. 

Perhaps you should refer to

journalistic report rather than hearsay. 
 

Loei farmer Prayuth Hipkaew. 

The retired teacher, a resident of Phu Kradung district, recalled that he used to grow only rice on his five-rai plot, but would earn nothing in the off-season. So he studied the Thai Chamber of Commerce’s “One Rai, One Hundred Thousand Baht to Financial Freedom” project and borrowed Bt30,000 from the village fund. 

He divided his land into five parts allocated to rice and other wet-field crops; fish and frog raising; an area with a residence and bio-substance manufacturing facility; chicken and duck raising; and a herbal plant and vegetable patch. Nowadays he and his wife earn over Bt100,000 per rai. 
 

 

 

 

[scorecard]

2 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Kind of strange when Prayut commented that Village Fund have improved. He didn’t discontinue the program even as you said diverting to the Red Shirts. 

Prime Minister Gen Prayut Chan-o-cha commented this weekend that village and urban community funds have improved the livelihoods of Thai people in all corners of the country. 

Perhaps you should refer to

journalistic report rather than hearsay. 
 

Loei farmer Prayuth Hipkaew. 

The retired teacher, a resident of Phu Kradung district, recalled that he used to grow only rice on his five-rai plot, but would earn nothing in the off-season. So he studied the Thai Chamber of Commerce’s “One Rai, One Hundred Thousand Baht to Financial Freedom” project and borrowed Bt30,000 from the village fund. 

He divided his land into five parts allocated to rice and other wet-field crops; fish and frog raising; an area with a residence and bio-substance manufacturing facility; chicken and duck raising; and a herbal plant and vegetable patch. Nowadays he and his wife earn over Bt100,000 per rai. 
 

 

 

 

You divert the discusion to now, and yes there are some positives.

 

The discussion earlier in this thread was when the Village fund scheme was started. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by scorecard

[scorecard]

On 8/6/2023 at 6:45 PM, scorecard said:

You divert the discusion to now, and yes there are some positives.

 

The discussion earlier in this thread was when the Village fund scheme was started. 

But the 'journalistc report' was not journalism. it was a report of what prauth said, and i'm very inclined to believe it was just his opportune opinion.

 

Share some respected data.