My Landlord Stop Me from Leaving the Country

[747man]

19 hours ago, BritTim said:

If there is major damage that anyone would have noticed at the time of moving in, and your landlord is determined to make an issue out of it, then yes. It is possible for him to initiate legal action and impede your departure. Only a mentally disturbed landlord would do this over minor issues that would not be noticeable when you first viewed the property. It is unlikely that you will have a problem, but we do not have the full facts.

Only a mentally disturbed landlord would do this over minor issues....And There are a Few of those knocking Around !!!

 

[JBChiangRai]

You don’t even need a clause about damages to be in the lease to be held liable.

 

A landlord is fully entitled to expect you to take reasonable care of his property, and the law expects that too. 
 

It sounds to me like you wanted to avoid the walk through inspection at lease termination.

[Scouse123]

If the OP says the landlord was going to take the 2 months deposit anyway, this leads me to believe a conversation regarding the condition of the condo has already taken place between the landlord and the OP and the landlord has expressed dissatisfaction.

 

Either that, or as is usual on this board, the OP is being selective in what he is telling us here, to get a favorable response.

 

As a rule the deposit is basically a guarantee for utilities being paid and the condo being returned in good condition or the deposit is used to make good any repairs.

 

Unless the damage is severe, and if it was the tenant wouldn't have moved in in the first place, the landlord is bluffing about immigration involvement.

 

 

[747man]

3 hours ago, kcpattaya said:

It all comes back to the lease agreement you both entered and agreed upon, if any.

That's legally binding.

By the "sound of it", you are in breach of contract. 

If so, your landlord might take further steps. I would consider to consult a lawyer instead of crying out in this ThaiVisa forum.

A Lawyer would cost him MORE Though wouldn't it ??

[747man]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

Did you take photos of all wals, ceilings, floors, doors, furniture etc., with date stamped photos, before you moved in? 

 

This all sounds like you were aware of the damage before you moved in/as you were moving in?

 

So when did you mention the damage to the landlord? Did you give the landlord photos of the damage very promptly? Do you have copies?

 

Did you take photos of all walls, ceilings, floors, doors, furniture etc., with date stamped photos, before you moved in? This action is becoming common.

 

15 Years ago I owned a luxury house on Jomtien beach, It was rented. I went quickly to Pattaya and with the agent we took dozens of photos and copies presented to the then proppective tenant.

 

The photos saved the day, the tenant (farang husband and Thai wife and 3 teenage kids) quickly did a lot of damage to the outside and inside of the house and the pool, all discovered when the agent did an inspection at 90 days as mentioned in the rental agreement and agent discovered a lot of damage.

 

I immediately cancelled their rental agreement and demanded more money (on top of the deposit they had paid). I called the police. A Snr. policeman came, I handed sets of photo 'before' and 'after' to the Snr. cop.

 

Cop held the passport of the farang and the ID cards of wife and kids and told the farang to bring 100,000Baht to him within 48 hours and to report to him at 24 hours. And told the farang he would return the farangs passport and the Thai ID cards when the damage had been repaired to my satisfaction.

 

Cop didn't mention immigration.

 

Farang did bring the 100,000Baht, and the repairs were completed within 7 days. 

 

I don't know whether the action of the Snr. cop was legal or not, but the photos were the 'fact' which ensured results.

 

Cop never asked for any kickback. 

 

Agent used their 'grapevine' to warn other agents about the tenants. Agent discovered that after damaged satisfactorily repaired and passport / id cards returned the tenants returned to England.

 

How Much did the Senior Cop Put in his own pocket ???

[747man]

34 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Landlord is fully entitled to pursue you if damages are more than the deposit and if he starts legal action, he can ask the court to stop you from leaving.

I Doubt wether The Court woul be Bothered for such a SMALL Amount......I Just think the OP Got fed up with Thailand ( He's been here for LESS Than 2 Months ) And Maybe he's Spent ALL His Millions & Needs to " Go Home "

[JBChiangRai]

7 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

Unless the damage is severe, and if it was the tenant wouldn't have moved in in the first place, the landlord is bluffing about immigration involvement.

As a landlord, if lots of damage, we would sue, block the passport for departure and negotiate, expecting to settle before trial.  Trial can take 7 years, I suspect the tenant might have more of a sense of urgency.

 

I would probably try for loss of profits whilst fixing damages too, all part of the negotiation.

[747man]

12 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

If the OP says the landlord was going to take the 2 months deposit anyway, this leads me to believe a conversation regarding the condition of the condo has already taken place between the landlord and the OP and the landlord has expressed dissatisfaction.

 

Either that, or as is usual on this board, the OP is being selective in what he is telling us here, to get a favorable response.

 

As a rule the deposit is basically a guarantee for utilities being paid and the condo being returned in good condition or the deposit is used to make good any repairs.

 

Unless the damage is severe, and if it was the tenant wouldn't have moved in in the first place, the landlord is bluffing about immigration involvement.

 

 

the landlord is bluffing about immigration involvement.....Immigration Won't be Bothered, There's Not enough Money Involved !!....Plus as many have previously said on here it's a " CIVIL Matter "

[bigt3116]

Tell the landlord that you will meet him at the tax office to discuss it, 'cos sure as eggs is eggs he is not declaring the rental income ????

[Scouse123]

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

As a landlord, if lots of damage, we would sue, block the passport for departure and negotiate, expecting to settle before trial.  Trial can take 7 years, I suspect the tenant might have more of a sense of urgency.

 

I would probably try for loss of profits whilst fixing damages too, all part of the negotiation.

I've been a landlord in Thailand too, I still am in the UK.

 

I have had damage, the only thing I did was withhold the deposit paid to cover it.

 

I will add that in Thailand I had photographs taken when the tenant moved in.

 

I had them printed on to A4 and made the tenant sign and date that they were correct and a true reflection of the state of the premises. I learnt this one after being ' bitten before ' by a previous tenant.

[JBChiangRai]

13 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

I've been a landlord in Thailand too, I still am in the UK.

 

I have had damage, the only thing I did was withhold the deposit paid to cover it.

 

I will add that in Thailand I had photographs taken when the tenant moved in.

 

I had them printed on to A4 and made the tenant sign and date that they were correct and a true reflection of the state of the premises. I learnt this one after being ' bitten before ' by a previous tenant.

I’ve had tenants leave early and forfeit deposit, never had damage.

[Jaxxper]

Just tell the landlord that the withheld deposit is the full limit of your liability per the contract, and you will be contacting the tax people to ensure that he's declaring all his rental income. That may make him back off. Nobody wants the tax people looking at their affairs. 

[JBChiangRai]

7 minutes ago, Jaxxper said:

I had Tax office investigate me last year, passed it over to my accountant and it was handled amicably, nothing due as we file every year.

 

It was another farang who, annoyed that I wouldn’t loan him a few hundred thousand baht, called the tax office before he returned to his native Australia.

Edited August 3, 2023 by JBChiangRai
Lost quote, context added

[JBChiangRai]

8 minutes ago, Jaxxper said:

Just tell the landlord that the withheld deposit is the full limit of your liability per the contract

Except it isn’t your full liability…

[buddyy]

I always take video and pictures when first time moving in, no matter how trustworthy or not someone is. There was some damages also when i moved to last place, i took pictures of every one of them.

 

Just advice for next time.

Edited August 3, 2023 by buddyy

[jaywalker2]

23 hours ago, BangkokAlan said:

It is a civil case your word against his. It is not a criminal matter so how can he stop you leaving the country and immigration only worry about immigration policy not landlord disputes. Just move on with your life to a better condo. Go through a proper agent so they have all the photos and take your own. 

 

 

It won't affect his status with immigration but if the landlord sues, he can be prevented from leaving the country until the court case is settled.

[BangkokAlan]

1 hour ago, jaywalker2 said:

It won't affect his status with immigration but if the landlord sues, he can be prevented from leaving the country until the court case is settled.

I don't think that could happen in a civil case. Its Thailand no landlord will spend money on the court case and it's his responsibility to show that the deposit did not cover the damages he is stating, and he may also have to show tax paid on earnings which many don't pay. Once you add in solicitors' fees not much to take and not worth the hassle. They won't hold your passport over a landlord dispute unless its criminal damage. The OP saying he didn't do anything wrong so he should move on.

[khunPer]

On 8/2/2023 at 7:07 AM, Sparky Barry said:

Is this going to affect my immigration status if he pursues this further? Will I be able to leave the country in the future? 

He need to sue you in court first, or get police to open a case; the latter is not very likely. If it's not a relative major amount of money in question, just pay, and get a receipt for full and final compensation – it might be the easy way out – and move on.

[NoDisplayName]

When do we get the rest of the story?

 

How much damage did the ladyboy do to your apartment?

 

 

[RikPOP]

On 8/2/2023 at 6:59 AM, Myran said:

"When I moved in, I started seeing damages that were not listed"

 

Then you should have checked better before moving in.

Help needed not sanctimonious criticism

 

[Myran]

12 minutes ago, RikPOP said:

Help needed not sanctimonious criticism

 

This is a discussion forum, snowflake. If you can't handle people having opinions and commenting on what is being written, stick to your diary.

[Lorry]

On 8/2/2023 at 1:51 PM, Peabody said:

I had a civil case that I filed (I was the complainant). I was not allowed to leave the country until it was adjudicated. Cost me 20K baht overstay fine waiting for a letter from the court saying the case was closed.

I was rejected from leaving (to return on a fresh visa) both at a land border and at Suvarnabhumi.

So immigration at the border knew/saw in their computer that there was a case pending?

[scubascuba3]

On 8/2/2023 at 12:51 PM, Sparky Barry said:

He was gonna take 2 months security deposit anyway. When I moved in I saw all sorts of other damages. I got bad vibes from the guy straight away. Was cutting my losses.

Farang? what town?

[JBChiangRai]

8 minutes ago, Lorry said:

So immigration at the border knew/saw in their computer that there was a case pending?

More likely a marker was placed on the IO’s computer about the person/passport. 

[JBChiangRai]

7 hours ago, 747man said:

the landlord is bluffing about immigration involvement.....Immigration Won't be Bothered, There's Not enough Money Involved !!....Plus as many have previously said on here it's a " CIVIL Matter "

All governments have mechanisms to flag their immigration department with details of their own citizens and foreigners they don’t want to leave the country.

 

in this day and age, I would expect the judiciary’s computer to link to the immigration database without any human interaction to inform IO’s at ports not to allow the person to pass.

[Letseng]

On 8/2/2023 at 12:51 PM, Sparky Barry said:

He was gonna take 2 months security deposit anyway. When I moved in I saw all sorts of other damages. I got bad vibes from the guy straight away. Was cutting my losses.

If you got bad vibes why sign the contract? Bit odd.

[JBChiangRai]

Regarding liability, maybe this will explain why the tenants liability is unlimited.
 

If you or one of your guests reverse your truck and accidentally knock down a wall, the roof falls in and the property is destroyed? Who is liable?

 

Yes it was an accident, but it’s not the landlord’s responsibility, it’s your responsibility.

 

There is no responsibility on the landlord to insure against your liability, and if he had, his insurance company would come after you.

 

The big question for you is how much damage the landlord is claiming? Is it worth him pursuing legal action?

[jaywalker2]

6 hours ago, BangkokAlan said:

I don't think that could happen in a civil case. Its Thailand no landlord will spend money on the court case and it's his responsibility to show that the deposit did not cover the damages he is stating, and he may also have to show tax paid on earnings which many don't pay. Once you add in solicitors' fees not much to take and not worth the hassle. They won't hold your passport over a landlord dispute unless its criminal damage. The OP saying he didn't do anything wrong so he should move on.

It doesn't have to be a civil case. The line between civil and criminal cases is exceedingly thin in Thailand. And though it makes no logical sense to sue, I have heard stories of vindictive landlords who have done just that.

[darrendsd]

On 8/3/2023 at 11:30 AM, 747man said:

the landlord is bluffing about immigration involvement.....Immigration Won't be Bothered, There's Not enough Money Involved !!....Plus as many have previously said on here it's a " CIVIL Matter "

They would be bothered if the landlord decided to report this as a criminal matter

 

If charges were brought the OP's right to leave would be denied by immigration

 

There was a case a few years ago of a British guy stuck here for 3 years because his landlord filed a criminal case for damage and theft against his tenant

 

Google it if you wish

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

They would be bothered if the landlord decided to report this as a criminal matter

 

If charges were brought the OP's right to leave would be denied by immigration

 

There was a case a few years ago of a British guy stuck here for 3 years because his landlord filed a criminal case for damage and theft against his tenant

 

Google it if you wish

Yes I remember that case