'You're kind of raised to hate tourists': Maui fires fan tensions on Hawaiian island

[Social Media]

 

After wildfires devastated parts of the Hawaiian island of Maui, one of the most popular tourist destinations in the US, officials warned visitors to stay away. But thousands remained and others continued to fly in, angering residents in the wake of the tragedy.

 

 

At Maui's Wailea Beach on Monday the skies were bright and clear. Luxury hotels lined the beachfront, their guests spread on the sand. Some waded in the ocean, while others sat under umbrellas with white monogrammed towels on their chairs.

Inside one of the hotels, beyond a pool, a two-tiered fountain and a glass-walled habitat for the resident parrot, was a wooden-framed screen advertising a relief fund for the resort's employees - the first sign of the destruction in Lahaina, just 30 miles (48km) up the coast.

In the wake of the wildfires, the deadliest in modern US history, frustration at tourists who have chosen to carry on with their holidays has grown. Many in Maui say the devastation has highlighted what is known as the "two Hawaiis" - one built for the comfort of visitors and another, harsher Hawaii left to Hawaiians.

"It's all butterflies and rainbows when it comes to the tourism industry," said a 21-year-old Maui native and an employee at the hotel who asked to remain anonymous. "But what's really under it is kind of scary."

 

FULL STORY

 

 

 

[Tug]

A fully understandable opinion I’m my personal opinion having tourists wall to wall underfoot day after day year after year sucks now you tourists it’s time to earn your way back into the locals good graces by doing the right thing help out or preferably leave till you aren’t such a burden 

[JonnyF]

34 minutes ago, Social Media said:

"It's all butterflies and rainbows when it comes to the tourism industry," said a 21-year-old Maui native and an employee at the hotel who asked to remain anonymous. "But what's really under it is kind of scary."

Sounds like you're in the wrong job if you resent the tourists so much.

 

The economy on Maui would collapse without tourism. You're going to need it now more than ever so maybe an adjustment in attitude is in order.

[stevenl]

I remember after the tsunami here, while recovery efforts were in full swing, all locals were grateful for the few tourists that remained or came.

[KhunLA]

54 minutes ago, Tug said:

A fully understandable opinion I’m my personal opinion having tourists wall to wall underfoot day after day year after year sucks now you tourists it’s time to earn your way back into the locals good graces by doing the right thing help out or preferably leave till you aren’t such a burden 

Is it the tourist's fault that their taxes paid are not utilized properly for the island's residents?

 

They don't complain with the influx of money that allows for their lifestyle & earnings, or do they/residents all want to fish & farm for a living?

 

If the tourist stop coming, there goes their income and tax base to fund assistance.

Edited August 16, 2023 by KhunLA

[Tropposurfer]

How dare these 'uncivilised' island people dare resent the great white culture!

 

How ungrateful!

 

They should be grateful they were gifted by the invasion, grateful for their subjugation, humbly thankful for the disenfranchisement of their idyllic utopian culture.

I mean look at what the white man did to Waikiki - such 'progress'.

 

How could anyone object to, or find offensive, land prices being driven so high the native people cannot afford to live, loud mouthed (and please don't tell me Yanks aren't, arguably THE loudest most obnoxious tourists to be found), arrogant mainlanders tramping about, demanding as they go.

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Tropposurfer

[Purdey]

I guess all places that can't make revenue from anything except tourism must feel some regret when their land prices go up. 

[pacovl46]

I honestly don't understand the fuss. As long as you aren't anywhere near the fire zone and risk getting into a situation where they would've to rescue you and you're not a hindrance to rescue efforts and staying on the island doesn't put you in any danger then why can't I continue my holiday? Also, people die in the sea every day, if you go by that then you can't swim in any ocean anymore. Yeah, it's sad that people have died, but then again people die every second of every day. 

 

If there was a real danger that the entire island could go up in flames then it would definitely be a great idea to evacuate.

Edited August 16, 2023 by pacovl46

[tonbridgebrit]

Raised to hate the tourists ?  What's really happening ?  The indigenous people of Hawai have always been angry about their land and country being taken over or stolen.  These people want justice.

[bendejo]

'You're kind of raised to hate tourists'

I checked out Hawaii decades ago.  I wasn't there to be a conqueror,  buy real estate, ravish their women etc.  I was a backpack traveler on an airline stopover.  People called me the Hawaiian word for outsiders that is as respectful as that word for dark people that begins with N.  Yeah, nice folks.

 

[pomchop]

7 minutes ago, bendejo said:

'You're kind of raised to hate tourists'

I checked out Hawaii decades ago.  I wasn't there to be a conqueror,  buy real estate, ravish their women etc.  I was a backpack traveler on an airline stopover.  People called me the Hawaiian word for outsiders that is as respectful as that word for dark people that begins with N.  Yeah, nice folks.

 

OH BS,,,,haole is a very very different then the N word...i have lived here 45 years and was called haole every single day with no malice....can haole be used deragatory?  sure but in my expererience that is rare...

 

.i have worked with a huge variety of locals over the years and was treated very nicely by the overwhelming majority....i suspect a lot of how u are treated depends on how you treat them...just like most other places in the world.

[Tug]

1 hour ago, pomchop said:

OH BS,,,,haole is a very very different then the N word...i have lived here 45 years and was called haole every single day with no malice....can haole be used deragatory?  sure but in my expererience that is rare...

 

.i have worked with a huge variety of locals over the years and was treated very nicely by the overwhelming majority....i suspect a lot of how u are treated depends on how you treat them...just like most other places in the world.

I agree and some of the kanakas resent some of the wealthy haoles treating them like …….. and driving prices up always being under foot keeping in mind it’s mostly rich haolies from the mainland reaping the rewards of the tourist industry the kanakas mostly serve the industry some of them understandably resent it 

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, bendejo said:

'You're kind of raised to hate tourists'

I checked out Hawaii decades ago.  I wasn't there to be a conqueror,  buy real estate, ravish their women etc.  I was a backpack traveler on an airline stopover.  People called me the Hawaiian word for outsiders that is as respectful as that word for dark people that begins with N.  Yeah, nice folks.

 

Same here. I was actually backpacking in Hawaii on the day Diana died.

 

I spoke to many locals who openly told me of their hate for tourists. Many of them were really quite proud of it, it was like a badge of honour for them. Good to see things haven't changed in almost 3 decades. Nice folks indeed. 

 

I'm sure they won't be turning down the donations though.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Same here. I was actually backpacking in Hawaii on the day Diana died.

 

I spoke to many locals who openly told me of their hate for tourists. Many of them were really quite proud of it, it was like a badge of honour for them. Good to see things haven't changed in almost 3 decades. Nice folks indeed. 

 

I'm sure they won't be turning down the donations though.

Are you quite sure they were referring to all tourists?

[pomchop]

I would say after 45 years here that it is certainly possible to run into locals who don't like tourists at all....on the other hand i have seen a lot of tourist behavior that is truly disgusting that does play a part in the overall scheme of things...BUT i can count on one hand the times that i have had anykind of problem with a local....

 

but then again i am sort of a "hang loose" type guy that  goes out of my way to try and be nice to people especially when i am still aware that i am a visitor in their home. A lot of locals have gotten screwed by a lot of haoles over the centuries...start out with the illegal USA overthrow of the entire Hawaiian kingdom and go from there....but again overall i personally find the hawaiian people to be some of the kindest most wonderful people on the planet.

[bendejo]

18 hours ago, pomchop said:

OH BS,,,,haole is a very very different then the N word...i have lived here 45 years and was called haole every single day with no malice....can haole be used deragatory?  sure but in my expererience that is rare...

.i have worked with a huge variety of locals over the years and was treated very nicely by the overwhelming majority....i suspect a lot of how u are treated depends on how you treat them...just like most other places in the world.

Hey farang, you sound like a haole apologist.  But you're at least a notch up from pale-skinned blonde people explaining to me that themselves are not haoles because, well, I don't recall what they said because they weren't making sense.  Whatever gets you through life. 

My response was to acknowledge that I understand where the quote in the OP is coming from. 

 

[eisfeld]

Did the tourists cause the devastating wildfire or was it mismanagement of the local hawaiian officials? What about the hawaiian state official denying the request for water in time to help keep the fires in check? https://www.civilbeat.org/2023/08/a-state-official-refused-to-release-water-for-west-maui-fires-until-it-was-too-late/

 

Is the income from tourism helping or hurting in times like these?

 

I don't understand why their hate towards tourists has to flare up right now. It's really not helping with the situation. They seem to have some deep running issues and frustrations and it's always easy to blame it on the foreigner or outsider in time of distress. But most of the time many issues are of ones own making. People just don't tend to complain when things are running great.

[pomchop]

1 hour ago, bendejo said:

Hey farang, you sound like a haole apologist.  But you're at least a notch up from pale-skinned blonde people explaining to me that themselves are not haoles because, well, I don't recall what they said because they weren't making sense.  Whatever gets you through life. 

My response was to acknowledge that I understand where the quote in the OP is coming from. 

 

As i said...after 45 years here i have had little to no problems getting along just fine with the locals.

I also have had little to no problems getting along with the thai people.

 

I am aware that some people seem to have more problems and maybe it is just the luck of the draw or maybe some just rub each other the wrong way.

 

Actually i find  hawaiian kine local people similar to a lot of Thai people that from my experience go out of their way to help you if you simply ask...

Edited August 17, 2023 by pomchop

[JonnyF]

On 8/17/2023 at 7:49 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

Are you quite sure they were referring to all tourists?

Well, you can read the title of the thread (slowly) if you need clarification but I can confirm that is was essentially a dislike of all non natives. Didn't matter if you were a tourist or a long term stayer.  

 

They didn't seem to mind my 20 year old, English, slim girlfriend with long blonde hair. But they seemed to especially dislike white Americans. Can't imagine why, they are such gracious travellers you barely notice they are there ????.

 

I'm sure they'll accept their donations though...

[placeholder]

This might be a reason why outsides aren't so welcome:

 

Why was there no water to fight the fire in Maui?

Big corporations, golf courses and hotels have been taking water from locals for years. Now the fire may result in even more devastating water theft.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/17/hawaii-fires-maui-water-rights-disaster-capitalism

[Hawaiian]

On 8/15/2023 at 3:34 PM, JonnyF said:

Sounds like you're in the wrong job if you resent the tourists so much.

 

The economy on Maui would collapse without tourism. You're going to need it now more than ever so maybe an adjustment in attitude is in order.

The phrase "Know what side one's bread is buttered on," seems appropriate.  Now that sugar and pineapple gone, tourism is all the more important as an economic driver.  So be nice to the tourists. 

Entire families have moved to the mainland USA

because employment opportunities are limited.  Many are native Hawaiians who are giving up their cherished local life style.  Last week, two of my tenants, both full bloodied Hawaiian, left for higher paying jobs.  They are also close friends that I hate seeing leave.

[Hawaiian]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

This might be a reason why outsides aren't so welcome:

 

Why was there no water to fight the fire in Maui?

Big corporations, golf courses and hotels have been taking water from locals for years. Now the fire may result in even more devastating water theft.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/17/hawaii-fires-maui-water-rights-disaster-capitalism

Inaccurate and confusing article.

[placeholder]

16 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

The phrase "Know what side one's bread is buttered on," seems appropriate.  Now that sugar and pineapple gone, tourism is all the more important as an economic driver.  So be nice to the tourists. 

Entire families have moved to the mainland USA

because employment opportunities are limited.  Many are native Hawaiians who are giving up their cherished local life style.  Last week, two of my tenants, both full bloodied Hawaiian, left for higher paying jobs.  They are also close friends that I hate seeing leave.

Of course, one of the reasons that they have to leave is that housing costs have skyrocketed.

THE PRICE OF PARADISE

AS HOME PRICES SPIKE NATIONWIDE, MAUI FACES THE PEAK OF A SYSTEMIC HOUSING CRISIS. MANY BORN AND RAISED ON-ISLAND ARE LEAVING FOR MORE AFFORDABLE STATES AS AFFLUENT NEWCOMERS BUY PROPERTIES AT RECORD SPEED.

On a busy Thursday afternoon at Kahului Airport, Kawika Kaina and his family pulled up to the curb in their silver Toyota Tundra amidst a flurry of rental cars and departing tourists. Kaina, 40, hugged his teenage daughter Deslyn and his niece Lauae and kissed his wife Pohai goodbye before he and his oldest daughter Deisia gathered their oversized suitcases and walked towards the crowded check-in counter, towards a new life in Nevada. 

Kaina and Pohai and their four children were born and raised in Hana, as were his parents and grandparents. They are moving to Reno because they cannot — and likely will never be able to — afford a home on Maui if they stay

https://mauitimes.news/the-price-of-paradise/

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

Inaccurate and confusing article.

Thanks for providing no evidence to support your refutation.

Here's an article dating from before the big fire.

 

'Hurting for water': Hawaii resorts worsen Maui's water shortage

The coastline is actually dry, receiving less than 10 inches of water per year. It gets the majority of its water from Central Maui — the area of Kahului and around Wailuku — where residents are sometimes urged to conserve.
“The fact is that the people where the water originates are hurting for water,” Lucienne de Naie, chairperson for Sierra Club Maui Group, told SFGATE. “There are definitely shortages of water from overtourism, and those shortages of water are impacting an area we call Na Wai Eha.”

https://www.sfgate.com/hawaii/article/hawaii-resorts-worsen-maui-water-problems-18210790.php

[Hawaiian]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Of course, one of the reasons that they have to leave is that housing costs have skyrocketed.

THE PRICE OF PARADISE

AS HOME PRICES SPIKE NATIONWIDE, MAUI FACES THE PEAK OF A SYSTEMIC HOUSING CRISIS. MANY BORN AND RAISED ON-ISLAND ARE LEAVING FOR MORE AFFORDABLE STATES AS AFFLUENT NEWCOMERS BUY PROPERTIES AT RECORD SPEED.

On a busy Thursday afternoon at Kahului Airport, Kawika Kaina and his family pulled up to the curb in their silver Toyota Tundra amidst a flurry of rental cars and departing tourists. Kaina, 40, hugged his teenage daughter Deslyn and his niece Lauae and kissed his wife Pohai goodbye before he and his oldest daughter Deisia gathered their oversized suitcases and walked towards the crowded check-in counter, towards a new life in Nevada. 

Kaina and Pohai and their four children were born and raised in Hana, as were his parents and grandparents. They are moving to Reno because they cannot — and likely will never be able to — afford a home on Maui if they stay

https://mauitimes.news/the-price-of-paradise/

Many here in Hawaii have placed the blame on out-of-state buyers driving up housing prices.  As a retired home builder and mini developer, I have always maintained it's the unreasonable and cumbersome rules and regulations that are chiefly responsible. 

Now, Grassroots Hawaii has confirmed that along with several well respected economists agreeing.

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Hawaiian
punctuation

[Hawaiian]

27 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Thanks for providing no evidence to support your refutation.

Here's an article dating from before the big fire.

 

'Hurting for water': Hawaii resorts worsen Maui's water shortage

The coastline is actually dry, receiving less than 10 inches of water per year. It gets the majority of its water from Central Maui — the area of Kahului and around Wailuku — where residents are sometimes urged to conserve.
“The fact is that the people where the water originates are hurting for water,” Lucienne de Naie, chairperson for Sierra Club Maui Group, told SFGATE. “There are definitely shortages of water from overtourism, and those shortages of water are impacting an area we call Na Wai Eha.”

https://www.sfgate.com/hawaii/article/hawaii-resorts-worsen-maui-water-problems-18210790.php

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/13/us/lahaina-water-failure.html

Edited August 18, 2023 by Hawaiian
correct spelling

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, Hawaiian said:

The phrase "Know what side one's bread is buttered on," seems appropriate.  Now that sugar and pineapple gone, tourism is all the more important as an economic driver.  So be nice to the tourists. 

Entire families have moved to the mainland USA

because employment opportunities are limited.  Many are native Hawaiians who are giving up their cherished local life style.  Last week, two of my tenants, both full bloodied Hawaiian, left for higher paying jobs.  They are also close friends that I hate seeing leave.

The problem is tourism jobs don't pay that well.  And with the cost of living already crazy high, where will these workers that take care of the tourists come from?  Hawaii is becoming like San Francisco, minus the crime (so far).  I lived on Oahu years ago and although tourism was a huge economic driver, the best jobs were working for the US gov.  And since the military has a huge presence in Hawaii (Oahu), these jobs were vital to the Hawaiian economy.  And yes, many Hawaiians have left Hawaii and gone to Las Vegas.  There was an article in the NY Times recently about this very phenomenon. 

[placeholder]

53 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/13/us/lahaina-water-failure.html

The article you cited is only about Lahaina. Not about the whole island. It doesn't even address how water is taken from the relatively water-rich parts of the island and transferred to the low rainfall coast.

https://archive.ph/jnC9f

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/13/us/lahaina-water-failure.html

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Hawaiian said:

Many here in Hawaii have placed the blame on out-of-state buyers driving up housing prices.  As a retired home builder and mini developer, I have always maintained it's the unreasonable and cumbersome rules and regulations that are chiefly responsible. 

Now, Grassroots Hawaii has confirmed that along with several well respected economists agreeing.

 

Thanks for mentioning Grassroots Hawaii, an extreme rightwing libertarian organization:

 

"The organization's stated mission is to "educate people about the values of individual liberty, economic freedom, and accountable government."[5] It promotes free market values and produces research on subjects like the Jones Act and pension issues. The organization is a member of the State Policy Network, a conservative and libertarian network of state-based think tanks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grassroot_Institute_of_Hawaii

 

Grassroot Institute of Hawaii is a member of the State Policy Network....Although SPN's member organizations claim to be nonpartisan and independent, the Center for Media and Democracy's in-depth investigation, "EXPOSED: The State Policy Network -- The Powerful Right-Wing Network Helping to Hijack State Politics and Government," reveals that SPN and its member think tanks are major drivers of the right-wing, American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC)-backed corporate agenda in state houses nationwide, with deep ties to the Koch brothers and the national right-wing network of funders.[8]...

The Grassroot Institute of Hawaii has hosted writers from the ALEC-connected Franklin Center for Government and Public Integrity, which screens potential reporters on their “free market” views as part of the job application process.[11] 

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Grassroot_Institute_of_Hawaii

[Hawaiian]

47 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

The problem is tourism jobs don't pay that well.  And with the cost of living already crazy high, where will these workers that take care of the tourists come from?  Hawaii is becoming like San Francisco, minus the crime (so far).  I lived on Oahu years ago and although tourism was a huge economic driver, the best jobs were working for the US gov.  And since the military has a huge presence in Hawaii (Oahu), these jobs were vital to the Hawaiian economy.  And yes, many Hawaiians have left Hawaii and gone to Las Vegas.  There was an article in the NY Times recently about this very phenomenon. 

A large percentage of the hospitality workforce are immigrants from the Philippines who continually sponsor their relatives to also immigrate to Hawaii. 

You're right about the pay.  That is why many have of them work at more than one job.  Unionized hotel workers starting pay is from $22 to $27 an hour.  Skilled "engineering" positions are in the $35 an hour range.  With overtime and tips some in housekeeping can make as much as $70,000 a year or more.