More than 60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. Here's what researchers say is to blame.

[Dan747]

BidenEconomics is to blame-Most American's I know here in Florida are spending 15-20 % more for food, Gas, Travel, Hotels, etc.-everything has gone up thanks to Biden. Next years election is where everyone is checking their wallet on their disposable Income and finding less. 2024 is predicted to get worse.  

[KhunLA]

55 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

The tax rate is higher for the rich after they woddle through all the loop holes. But, if you allow only the basic deductions and charge 15%. Folks complain about the rich not paying taxes, or very little. This would solve that.

If you want to be fair ... actually fair to everyone.

 

No deductions, and simply pick a flat income rate.  Those that think the rich don't pay enough, fine, pick their rate.  

 

A flat tax of between 25-37% ... across the board, no exceptions.  

 

I would have loved to pay 25%, or have everyone pay 37% .... pick one.

 

Everyone pay the same, that's called being fair.

[Tug]

14 minutes ago, Dan747 said:

BidenEconomics is to blame-Most American's I know here in Florida are spending 15-20 % more for food, Gas, Travel, Hotels, etc.-everything has gone up thanks to Biden. Next years election is where everyone is checking their wallet on their disposable Income and finding less. 2024 is predicted to get worse.  

You need to get out more the inflation is world wide so using Biden as your whipping boy don’t cut it further more consider this if Trump didn’t Welch on the Iran nuclear deal we would be able to buy their oil easing oil price’s cheaper gas and probably no Iranian weapons to Russia and inflation is down to 3% from a high of 9%

[Gecko123]

On 9/1/2023 at 8:18 PM, Nick Carter icp said:

Biden is President , your leader is in charge now, what has Biden done to address the current problem ?

For one thing, Biden hasn't meddled in Federal Reserve policy, pressuring the Fed to keep interest rates low for political gain like Trump endlessly did.

 

The financial suppression of interest rates since 2008 bears a great deal of blame for the current situation. Artificially suppressed interest rates ripped off savers and created disincentives to save. They also forced capital to be misallocated into the stock and real estate markets. Purchases of single family and apartment buildings by investment companies are largely behind the housing affordability crisis in America.

 

But I agree that the democrats have been equally guilty of fiscal recklessness. A big difference however is that Trump's fiscal recklessness largely benefited the rich and corporations, while Biden's big ticket spending has been done largely to address economic inequities (student debt forgiveness) and to invest in the future (Inflation Adjustment Act).

[impulse]

50 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

No deductions, and simply pick a flat income rate.  Those that think the rich don't pay enough, fine, pick their rate.  

How do you define (and calculate, and audit) income?  Easy enough for a family with just paychecks.  Much harder for the rich who can amass a huge amount of wealth by capital gains, without having a dime of "income".   

[impulse]

8 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

But I agree that the democrats have been equally guilty of fiscal recklessness. A big difference however is that Trump's fiscal recklessness largely benefited the rich and corporations, while Biden's big ticket spending has been done largely to address economic inequities (student debt forgiveness) and to invest in the future (Inflation Adjustment Act).

I'm not a fan of either party.  But the Dems' gifts to their donors written into the so called "Inflation Reduction Act" are just as egregious as anything Trump did for the rich. 

 

And even Biden himself conceded they named that bill wrong.

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, impulse said:

How do you define (and calculate, and audit) income?  Easy enough for a family with just paychecks.  Much harder for the rich who can amass a huge amount of wealth by capital gains, without having a dime of "income".   

Capital gains is considered income, same as paychecks, and reported to IRS from brokers, same as salaries from employers.

 

There is no avoiding paying taxes ... it's the BS of those that spin that silliness.

 

You can use the tax laws to cut your tax, or delay your tax, but that's about it.  Everyone pays, well, except the people who want to take from those that earned.

 

Best way to cut your tax, is give your income away, and why so many rich, give so much to charities, or good motivation anyway.  Give 1M away, and save paying tax on that 1M.  

 

And kudos for those that do so.

Edited September 3, 2023 by KhunLA

[Skipalongcassidy]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Inflation in the US is slowing down.

 

 

As opposed to it didn't need to go wild to begin with except for failed bidenomics... good inspiration... 555

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Inflation in the US is slowing down.

Of course it is, and next month they'll release their ridiculously low rate of inflation for the year, just in time for the COLA to be announced on Social Security ...

... like clockwork ... ????

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Capital gains is considered income, same as paychecks, and reported to IRS from brokers, same as salaries from employers.

 

There is no avoiding paying taxes ... it's the BS of those that spin that silliness.

Capital gains are only taxed when you cash in those stocks.  Capital gains on real estate are only taxed when the property is sold.  It's quite possible to become a billionaire without ever having a dime of taxable income.

 

So I ask again,  How would you define income?

[KhunLA]

7 minutes ago, impulse said:

Capital gains are only taxed when you cash in those stocks.  Capital gains on real estate are only taxed when the property is sold.  It's quite possible to become a billionaire without ever having a dime of taxable income.

 

So I ask again,  How would you define income?

Yes, gains, same as salaries, not taxed until you receive them.  Why should that be any different, as hard to predict gains.   And take note, you don't get much credit for 'losses' , a flat 5k no  matter the loss ... that's fair ????

Edited September 3, 2023 by KhunLA

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

The tax rate is higher for the rich after they woddle through all the loop holes. But, if you allow only the basic deductions and charge 15%. Folks complain about the rich not paying taxes, or very little. This would solve that.

Taxes on companies should be a gross income or turnover tax with deductions only allowable for R&D. Even a marginal rate like 5% would be a huge boost in revenue. Such a tax scheme is being introduced worldwide to prevent companies offshoring to avoid tax.

[impulse]

13 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Yes, gains, same as salaries, not taxed until you receive them.  Why should that be any different, as hard to predict gains.   And take note, you don't get much credit for 'losses' , a flat 5k no  matter the loss ... that's fair ????

You've proposed a flat tax against all income.  I'm contending that's not as simple as it seems.  The very first thing you have to do is define "income".

 

You could define it as the difference between your net worth last year vs your net worth this year.  (Not that I'd recommend that method).  Or you could define it to include unrealized capital gains (your brokerage account has that exact number every day).  But either of those methods would be very hard to audit. 

 

Edit: And any political party proposing either would lose $$$ millions in donations...  And that's why we'll never have a fair tax system.

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by impulse

[KhunLA]

19 minutes ago, impulse said:

You've proposed a flat tax against all income.  I'm contending that's not as simple as it seems.  The very first thing you have to do is define "income".

 

You could define it as the difference between your net worth last year vs your net worth this year.  (Not that I'd recommend that method).  Or you could define it to include unrealized capital gains (your brokerage account has that exact number every day).  But either of those methods would be very hard to audit. 

 

Edit: And any political party proposing either would lose $$$ millions in donations...  And that's why we'll never have a fair tax system.

 

All would be easy to audit, but yea, silly to do.  Tax your house as it goes up in value, even though you may never sell it.

 

Tax stock holdings when up, but what happens when down, do you get paid that year.   I lost 110k, and I got a 5k baht credit.  I'd rather get paid 40k, if your plan was instituted.

 

And, I still had to pay tax on my 40k salary, now taxed at 35k.  Very fair ????

 

Goes both ways, you can't keep taking for the 'haves' that earned what they have.

 

How come a fair, flat tax across the board is never good enough ?   It would be very easy to do, simply audit w-2s & 1099s, as just about covers most things received.

 

Because then everyone would have to pay their fare share, not just the haves being over taxed.

 

All the suggestions, only benefit the low income, but taking from the higher incomes.  Fair ???

 

Trust me, the haves are all in favor of a flat tax.

Edited September 3, 2023 by KhunLA

[1FinickyOne]

On 9/1/2023 at 5:37 PM, KhunLA said:

How is that even possible?

cheese steak addictions, washed down by black cherry wishniak

[Danderman123]

55 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

As opposed to it didn't need to go wild to begin with except for failed bidenomics... good inspiration... 555

I guess you forgot about Covid's impact on the supply chain.

[KhunLA]

6 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

cheese steak addictions, washed down by black cherry wishniak

 PA Dutch Birch Beer fan myself ???? 

[EVENKEEL]

3 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

I guess you forgot about Covid's impact on the supply chain.

Where was our Sec of transportation? Oh that's right, he was home breast feeding.

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

I guess you forgot about Covid's impact on the supply chain.

And those record windfall profits the oil companies made, affecting that supply chain, jacking up prices across the board.

 

 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

46 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Taxes on companies should be a gross income or turnover tax with deductions only allowable for R&D. Even a marginal rate like 5% would be a huge boost in revenue. Such a tax scheme is being introduced worldwide to prevent companies offshoring to avoid tax.

Businesses need deductions for real business expenses such as wages and the things they buy to produce what they sell. The problem is as you say the loopholes, particularly with deductions claimed from international structures, and opportunities to avoid tax in general with often weak poorly resourced IRS,  or equivalent, playing catch up. For every dollar governments spent on IT and audit capability and smart legislation introduced in a timely way they’d get $10 back in taxes. That is with existing tax rates. 
Often it’s the wage earners who bear the brunt. They are the low hanging fruit - they say limit wage rises as economy bad or limit wage rises as economy  too good due to inflation but marginal taxes often much higher than for businesses. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Fat is a type of crazy

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

It depends on what one defines as needs. I have little sympathy for people on low incomes who smoke, drink, or do drugs.

Well of course, but what about all the other people struggling on low pay who do none of these things?

 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Well of course, but what about all the other people struggling on low pay who do none of these things?

 

Certainly such people have my sympathy.

As one of our Prime Ministers famously remarked. life was not meant to be easy. Of course, he came from a background of wealth and privilege.

[youreavinalaff]

9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Do you have evidence that people on low incomes unable to meet their basic needs are ‘overspending’.

 

Not only those on low incomes.

Edited September 3, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Not only those on low incomes.

But if one’s income is below that needed to cover one’s basic needs?

 

Shouldn't be too hard for someone who tells us he has ‘care work’ experience, to work out. Given many people receiving Government funded care packages do not have sufficient income to fund the care they receive.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[youreavinalaff]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

But if one’s income is below that needed to cover one’s basic needs?

 

Shouldn't be too hard for someone who tells us he has ‘care work’ experience, to work out. Given many people receiving Government funded care packages do not have sufficient income to fund the care they receive.

 

 

Going off topic to try to prove something. That's amusing.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Going off topic to try to prove something. That's amusing.

Please forgive me for providing an example that demonstrates the point that many people have insufficient income to cover their basic needs.

 

 

[youreavinalaff]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Please forgive me for providing an example that demonstrates the point that many people have insufficient income to cover their basic needs.

 

 

No need to forgive you. I guess going off topic was a simple mistake by a simple mind.

 

Sympathy is a better option than forgiveness.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, youreavinalaff said:

No need to forgive you. I guess going off topic was a simple mistake by a simple mind.

 

Sympathy is a better option than forgiveness.

I see you are back to ad hominem.

 

 

[KhunLA]

With McD paying $15 an hour, I really can't see how anyone doesn't have enough money to live on.  And a couple, shouldn't have a problem buying a house, and having transport, if wanting.

 

A couple, making $60k a year, at McD, and more than I ever made at a salaried job.  I never broke the 50k salary mark, any year, $49+k was my best year, salary wise.

 

I'm not buying that people that want to work, are struggling that bad.  Along with not knowing, or my family and friends complaining about them or their kids, or grandkids struggling.

 

Granted, you many not live in one of the larger expensive cities, but would you really want to.

[1FinickyOne]

8 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I'd put a 100% asset tax on anyone having more than a home + holiday home + $2M.

I'm being generous with the holiday home!

Time to stop all the greed and to redistribute land/housing to the poor.

I dreamed I saw joe hill last night - alive as you and me...