Foreigners running workshops/seminars in Koh Phangan - do they need work permit?

[JoseThailand]

A see lots and lots of foreigners running workshops/seminars in Koh Phangan. Do they need a work permit to do that? Or is it not required as long as it's not considered "work"?

[bigt3116]

18 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

A see lots and lots of foreigners running workshops/seminars in Koh Phangan. Do they need a work permit to do that? Or is it not required as long as it's not considered "work"?

Yes they should have a work permit, it most certainly is considered work

[JoseThailand]

3 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

Yes they should have a work permit, it most certainly is considered work

What if they don't get paid and do it for free?

[fulhamster]

5 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

What if they don't get paid and do it for free?

They are still working so need a work permit, even for voluntary work

[jvs]

6 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

What if they don't get paid and do it for free?

Does not matter they still need a work permit.

[Liverpool Lou]

36 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

A see lots and lots of foreigners running workshops/seminars in Koh Phangan. Do they need a work permit to do that? Or is it not required as long as it's not considered "work"?

Why does it matter, are you assuming that they don't have work permits?  Are you planning on reporting them?

[bob smith]

jesus who cares.

 

talk about a load of hot air over nothing!

[stoner]

derp derp

[JoseThailand]

11 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Why does it matter, are you assuming that they don't have work permits?  Are you planning on reporting them?

Is it even possible to get a Non-B visa and work permit for such kind of "work"?

[DavisH]

It depends on WHO is organising the workshop. I've done short workshops for government agencies. WP has never been required. And I'm quite sure the government is well aware of WP policies for foreigners. 

But if those folks are "working for themselves" in the Island, then yes they should have a WP - for any kind of work, even non-paid work. 

[JoseThailand]

23 minutes ago, jvs said:

Does not matter they still need a work permit.

Is there a legal definition of "work" as per the Thai legislation?

[Liverpool Lou]

34 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

Yes they should have a work permit, it most certainly is considered work

 

30 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

What if they don't get paid and do it for free?

 

24 minutes ago, fulhamster said:

They are still working so need a work permit, even for voluntary work

 

23 minutes ago, jvs said:

Does not matter they still need a work permit.

Unless they qualify for the  broad and ambiguous work permit exemption of participation in conferences, seminars, business meetings, or lectures.

[JoseThailand]

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

 

 

 

Unless they qualify for the  broad and ambiguous work permit exemption of participation in conferences, seminars, business meetings, or lectures.

But that is exactly what they are doing!

[Liverpool Lou]

6 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

20 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Why does it matter, are you assuming that they don't have work permits?  Are you planning on reporting them?

Is it even possible to get a Non-B visa and work permit for such kind of "work"?

It is possible to qualify for an exemption.  Is you're plan to report these people about whom you're enquiring?

[bigt3116]

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Unless they qualify for the  broad and ambiguous work permit exemption of participation in conferences, seminars, business meetings, or lectures.

I believe that is for attending, not running/organising

 

[Liverpool Lou]

1 minute ago, JoseThailand said:

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

 

 

 

Unless they qualify for the  broad and ambiguous work permit exemption of participation in conferences, seminars, business meetings, or lectures.

But that is exactly what they are doing!

Hence my comment!

[Hummin]

Kom Phangan seems like a free haven for now, with many foreigners (mostly Russians I asume) selling their designs all over the place, and do bar work, dj, and more 

 

We will see how long it last. Phuket used to be like that before, Koh Tao as well, now  Koh Phangan the last place I know is like that so officially 

[blackcab]

4 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

Is there a legal definition of "work" as per the Thai legislation?

 

Section 5 of the Foreigners Working Management Emergency Decree (2017) states:

 

“work” means the use of physical strength or knowledge for engaging in an occupation or a job with or without an intention to obtain wages or any other benefit...

[JoseThailand]

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Hence my comment!

That's what I thought. I can't imagine anyone get a Non-B visa and work permit to run a seminar or workshop.

[bigt3116]

9 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

Is there a legal definition of "work" as per the Thai legislation?

Foreigners Working Management Emergency Decree of 2017

 

https://www.doe.go.th/prd/assets/upload/files/legal_th/99cafe53a0d300f8fdb877b08ec99bd6.pdf

 

Section 5 defines work

 

"Work" means the use of physical strength or knowledge for engaging in an occupation or a job with or without an intention to obtain wages or any other benefit except the work prescribed in the notification of the Minister”

[JoseThailand]

2 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

Section 5 of the Foreigners Working Management Emergency Decree (2017) states:

 

“work” means the use of physical strength or knowledge for engaging in an occupation or a job with or without an intention to obtain wages or any other benefit...

Where is the definition of "occupation" or "job" then?

[NoDisplayName]

2 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

That's what I thought. I can't imagine anyone get a Non-B visa and work permit to run a seminar or workshop.

As I 'member from the news last year, you shirley DO need a work permit to run seminars.......................by a sex training coach.

[Liverpool Lou]

5 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

I believe that is for attending, not running/organising

 

Are those organisers not attending?  I don't see any distinction made in the exemption regs.

[JoseThailand]

7 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It is possible to qualify for an exemption.  Is you're plan to report these people about whom you're enquiring?

I'm not going to report anyone. You think the authorities are so stupid and don't have a clue what's happening there? Or there are not enough "concerned citizens" who could report them?

[NoDisplayName]

2 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

Where is the definition of "occupation" or "job" then?

 

Where is the definition of "use"?

Where is the definition of "strength"?

Where is the definition of "intention"?

Where is the definition of "other"?

[JoseThailand]

10 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Kom Phangan seems like a free haven for now, with many foreigners (mostly Russians I asume) selling their designs all over the place, and do bar work, dj, and more 

 

We will see how long it last. Phuket used to be like that before, Koh Tao as well, now  Koh Phangan the last place I know is like that so officially 

From my experience, it's mostly westerners who do that. Russians are a minority.

[Jelli]

I recall sometime back an easing of TR visa was announced that would allow speakers to fly in and do a conference without work permit.

 

In my mind this is completely different from those living on island of misfit toys and selling ridiculous Reiki, *yoga* courses and work-begging fire twirling sticks, etc. Of course, Muay Thai and massage would be off limits courses taught by farang. Yes, imo very necessary.

[JoseThailand]

2 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Where is the definition of "use"?

Where is the definition of "strength"?

Where is the definition of "intention"?

Where is the definition of "other"?

Work is what you do at your job. Perfect definition.

[Jelli]

11 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

Where is the definition of "occupation" or "job" then?

The police will give it to you upon arrest.

 

Not been here long have you chancer?

[Seeall]

47 minutes ago, fulhamster said:

They are still working so need a work permit, even for voluntary work

So cancel the us navy donating and helping schools an all the other things.. And fine them