Concerns raised about EV vehicles and batteries stored in Bangkok after intense Chatuchak fire

[webfact]

Scenes from Wednesday night’s fire in the Chatuchak area of Bangkok, which at one stage led fire services to believe the structure was in danger of collapse. (Centre) Bangkok Governor Chadchart Sittipunt has ordered a complete review of all premises storing EV vehicles and batteries. (Inset) Scene from Udon Thani this week when a 41-year-old man saw his ฿1 million electric car catch fire while charging.

Fears over the dangers of EV batteries used on both cars and motorcycles which can produce uncontrollable heat surges, radiation and chemical discharges. Wednesday night’s fire is seen as a wake-up call for authorities.

Bangkok’s governor has ordered an urgent review of all premises in the capital storing EV vehicles and batteries after a serious fire on Wednesday night gutted a building in the Chatuchak area of the city.

 

The Governor of Bangkok, Chadchart Sittipunt, has ordered a complete review of all buildings in the Bangkok Metropolitan area which are being used to store electric car batteries or vehicles.

 

by James Morris and Son Nguyen

 

Full story: https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2023/09/09/ev-vehicle-concerns-after-bangkok-fire-bangkok-governor-chadchart/

 

-- Thai Examiner 2023-09-11

 

- Cigna offers a range of visa-compliant plans that meet the minimum requirement of medical treatment, including COVID-19, up to THB 3m. For more information on all expat health insurance plans click here.

 

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[hotchilli]

After seeing a worrying rise in transportation ships carrying EV vehicles having fire issues it is sound advice to look at storage methods, fire safety monitoring features and maybe mandatory fire suppression systems installed.

[Yme]

The problem is once they start, you can't put them out. It's something that the EV zealots bury their heads up their bum over. Wait until one of these "community batteries" goes up.
Encased in steel and aluminum to protect them, it also prevents water or foam from getting to the core. EVs are not the solution to anything, except a method to get the gullible to part with their money. They're expensive, unpredictable, lack capacity, and their construction is environmentally destructive. A feel-good placebo for the wealthy. A distraction.  
 

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, Yme said:

EVs are not the solution to anything, except a method to get the gullible to part with their money. They're expensive, unpredictable, lack capacity, and their construction is environmentally destructive. A feel-good placebo for the wealthy. A distraction.  
 

Which is why the intelligentsia are buying them in droves.  Luddite's, not so much.

[Peabody]

"EV vehicle"

Department of Redundancy Department  ????

[Peterphuket]

7 hours ago, hotchilli said:

After seeing a worrying rise in transportation ships carrying EV vehicles having fire issues it is sound advice to look at storage methods, fire safety monitoring features and maybe mandatory fire suppression systems installed.

Did you thinking about this ship what happens a few weeks ago, a big fire because an EV get's in fire on the ship.

[BritScot]

6 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Which is why the intelligentsia are buying them in droves.  Luddite's, not so much.

Dribble or you don't know many intelligent people. Being intelligent is not the same as being clever and some of the really intelligent people I have known are quite stupid away from their chosen field. Reasons people buy electric cars to start off was financial (government incentives even free electric chargers etc which now have all stopped) look at me now it's a tick box exercise. Any one with half a brain that looks into the production of the rare metals and still buys a ev is quite a damaged individual. Then to have a time bomb in your home is a risk I would never take infact I would not now allow my children to ride in a ev. Note UK: People so easily forget a few years ago it was diesel engines good so people purchased them then the switch and road tax went through the roof for them as diesel now bad.

[AgMech Cowboy]

On 9/11/2023 at 7:20 AM, Yme said:

The problem is once they start, you can't put them out. It's something that the EV zealots bury their heads up their bum over. Wait until one of these "community batteries" goes up.
Encased in steel and aluminum to protect them, it also prevents water or foam from getting to the core. EVs are not the solution to anything, except a method to get the gullible to part with their money. They're expensive, unpredictable, lack capacity, and their construction is environmentally destructive. A feel-good placebo for the wealthy. A distraction.  
 

100% correct. EVs and all their hype are a fairy tail.

[BenStark]

On 9/11/2023 at 1:48 PM, Peterphuket said:

Did you thinking about this ship what happens a few weeks ago, a big fire because an EV get's in fire on the ship.

Did you just ignore the word "Misschien" (translated from MAYBE in English), to push your opinion?

[Peterphuket]

5 hours ago, BenStark said:

Did you just ignore the word "Misschien" (translated from MAYBE in English), to push your opinion?

 

5 hours ago, BenStark said:

Did you just ignore the word "Misschien" (translated from MAYBE in English), to push your opinion?

I saw it to late, to late, to late.....

But maybe, until now they don't know yet.

5 hours ago, BenStark said:

Did you just ignore the word "Misschien" (translated from MAYBE in English), to push your opinion?

 

[Yme]

Guess you didn't see them unloading the Dutch oven with one Mercedes Benz EQE EV taken straight from the ship and loaded into a special container and filled with water as its battery started to erupt during the unloading process?  
 

 

[impulse]

For those of us who would gladly buy an EV as our other car, I wish they'd scale back on the battery size and cost to build a cheaper EV with about 100 miles of range.  That would do about 80-90% of my daily driving which is usually a 30 mile R/T to town and back.  Something along the lines of the $5,000 Wuling mini EV. 

 

I don't even care if it meets highway safety standards because I'd never intend to take it on a highway.  (In fact, I'd propose it as an island car for where I live, not allowed over the expressway bridge to get off the island)  Just a much safer alternative to a scooter for getting the groceries.  Charging wouldn't be an issue, because it would be in my driveway before and after every <50 mile trip.

 

For a road trip and towing my boat, I'd still go with my soccer Mom Toyota van.

 

Edit:  I'd add that makes me a good candidate to buy a cheap 2nd hand EV, because I don't really mind if it's lost half its range (if the price is right, of course).

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by impulse

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 9/11/2023 at 7:26 AM, JBChiangRai said:

Which is why the intelligentsia are buying them in droves.  Luddite's, not so much.

Most condos in Thailand have 3-7 floor of parking with 2-400 cars right under hundreds of sleeping residents. As the recent Hanoi fire shows that can be a dangerous and deadly combination. 

The fire suppressing system is made to control a single vehicle fire, but what will happen when half the cars are EVs and a chain reaction starts?

Fire regulations sure needs to be updated to reflect this new thread. A firewall every 3rd vehicle could be a solution. 

[transam]

On 9/11/2023 at 7:26 AM, JBChiangRai said:

Which is why the intelligentsia are buying them in droves.  Luddite's, not so much.

Thought folk were being told too, no more gas cars, diesel is out too...

Plus, that was no answer the concerns of the real danger of lithium batteries.  ????

 

 

 

 

 

[impulse]

33 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Most condos in Thailand have 3-7 floor of parking with 2-400 cars right under hundreds of sleeping residents. As the recent Hanoi fire shows that can be a dangerous and deadly combination. 

The fire suppressing system is made to control a single vehicle fire, but what will happen when half the cars are EVs and a chain reaction starts?

Fire regulations sure needs to be updated to reflect this new thread. A firewall every 3rd vehicle could be a solution. 

Id agree with you there.  But I wonder if there's been a number published about the actual likelihood of an EV fire (perhaps by brand?).  Is it a one in a million fluke, or 1 in 1000 and you better keep them outdoors?

 

Edit:  And I also wonder whether the typical auto insurance policy covers an entire apartment building if yours is the car that sets it off.  I can see where it may not be just the car's fault if there's a problem with the charger, etc.  So I would anticipate a lot of finger pointing between the parties.

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by impulse

[ExpatOilWorker]

28 minutes ago, impulse said:

Id agree with you there.  But I wonder if there's been a number published about the actual likelihood of an EV fire (perhaps by brand?).  Is it a one in a million fluke, or 1 in 1000 and you better keep them outdoors?

 

Edit:  And I also wonder whether the typical auto insurance policy covers an entire apartment building if yours is the car that sets it off.  I can see where it may not be just the car's fault if there's a problem with the charger, etc.  So I would anticipate a lot of finger pointing between the parties.

 

The answer is actually square in the middle of your two numbers 1 in 40,000 EVs will catch fire pre year if it is a Tesla. For the Chinese brands, we don't know yet.

I have also been wondering about the insurance liability. Historically insurance claims have always been based on accident fault. But who is at fault if the vehicle selv-ignite and burn down 5 cars next to it?

The EV owner, who did nothing wrong?

The car manufacturer?

The other car owners cover their own cost?

The charging station, even if working as per design?

 

[impulse]

4 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The answer is actually square in the middle of your two numbers 1 in 40,000 EVs will catch fire pre year if it is a Tesla. For the Chinese brands, we don't know yet.

I have also been wondering about the insurance liability. Historically insurance claims have always been based on accident fault. But who is at fault if the vehicle selv-ignite and burn down 5 cars next to it?

The EV owner, who did nothing wrong?

The car manufacturer?

The other car owners cover their own cost?

The charging station, even if working as per design?

 

Lord, I hope it's not the EV owner, because I typically get $500K of coverage.  That doesn't even cover one nice condo...

[BenStark]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

For those of us who would gladly buy an EV as our other car, I wish they'd scale back on the battery size and cost to build a cheaper EV with about 100 miles of range.  That would do about 80-90% of my daily driving which is usually a 30 mile R/T to town and back.  Something along the lines of the $5,000 Wuling mini EV. 

Why not buy an electrical bicycle.

 

I was last month in Europe and visited an old friend who owns a chain of professional bicycle shops.

 

He showed me his assortment of electrical bicycles, and said they sold like sweet cakes.

 

They were around 15K Euro

[impulse]

20 minutes ago, BenStark said:

Why not buy an electrical bicycle.

 

I was last month in Europe and visited an old friend who owns a chain of professional bicycle shops.

 

He showed me his assortment of electrical bicycles, and said they sold like sweet cakes.

 

They were around 15K Euro

I had 3 in Thailand and still have 2 in China.  Never spent more than $800 and that was for one in Thailand.  In China, the most I spent was $600 USD. 

 

I loved them as an alternative to a pedal bike.  But they are no substitute for 4 wheels, doors, a roof, and seat belts when it comes to safely getting the groceries, especially in the rain.

 

I even thought about importing them to the USA until the news covered the fires they cause.  Making a few hundred $$ on a product that may burn down a million dollar home, with associated fatalities, didn't seem like a good risk.  Of course, if you're selling a $600 e-bike for 15,000 Euros, you can probably make the numbers work.

 

Edit:  On a related note, my US car insurance company started sending me solicitations for e-bike liability insurance a year or so ago.  So that's apparently a thing now.  But I don't know if it just covers road hazards, or includes cover for structure fires.  I don't have an e-bike in the USA so I didn't look into the details.

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by impulse

[BenStark]

15 minutes ago, impulse said:

Of course, if you're selling a $600 e-bike for 15,000 Euros, you can probably make the numbers work.

Very poor attempt at discrediting a professional bicycle seller comparing him with the Chinese crap you hardly can afford.

 

Are you still working without work permit?

 

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/shop/sale/c/sale?q=%3Afeatured%3Aarchived%3Afalse%3Aclearance%3Atrue&sort=featured#/sort:ss_price:desc

 

 

 

 

[steven100]

Maybe they were to quick to introduce them into EV cars and the market .....     they need alot more research into how to stop fires igniting with the battery.     It's not rocket science surely    !!

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

Id agree with you there.  But I wonder if there's been a number published about the actual likelihood of an EV fire (perhaps by brand?).  Is it a one in a million fluke, or 1 in 1000 and you better keep them outdoors?

 

Edit:  And I also wonder whether the typical auto insurance policy covers an entire apartment building if yours is the car that sets it off.  I can see where it may not be just the car's fault if there's a problem with the charger, etc.  So I would anticipate a lot of finger pointing between the parties.

 

According to the US Government (2 different departments) and Insurance companies, EV fires are about 10 times less likely than internal combustion engine cars.

[BenStark]

39 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

According to the US Government (2 different departments) and Insurance companies, EV fires are about 10 times less likely than internal combustion engine cars.

Any links?

[DavisH]

28 minutes ago, BenStark said:

Any links?

Yes, under what conditions are cars combusting? ICE cars are MUCH more common, and accidents can cause combustion, obviously. How many ICE's self combust vs EV's? Are EV's more likely to catch fire while charging or when just sitting in the garage? 

Personally, I will not being an EV within the next 10 years or so. I want to see how technology changes, longevity and cost of batteries, how much prices will come down, charging stations, effect of many ev's on the unit cost of electricity, introduction of Japanese EV's...etc. I have cost/performance/range requirements and no EV's currently match what I'd be willing to accept. 

 

[In the jungle]

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

According to the US Government (2 different departments) and Insurance companies, EV fires are about 10 times less likely than internal combustion engine cars.

The issue is not the frequency but the severity of the fires.

 

You know that but you choose to ignore it.

[BenStark]

Nothing wrong with Lithium batteries, although

 

• Postal services will not allow me to post them internationally.

 

• Airlines will not allow them in my checked luggage.

 

• More than 2.7 Wh isn't even allowed in carry on baggage.

 

• Insurance premiums for EV's are much higher than the same value ICE car

 

• Some buildings start to restrict EV's in their underground garages, same as with LPG vehicles.

 

• A close friend of me is an importer of Ligier compact electric vehicles, and has told me that he has had 3 fires of stationed vehicles so far, thereby destroying almost 40 others parked in the same location.

 

• I have links posted to this before, but of course the EV fanboys ignore them.

 

Nikola, the major manufacturer of electric trucks, has so far produced 209 trucks. FOUR of them have been reported to have caught fire, of which 2 brand-new trucks spontaneous enlightening on factory grounds and destroying other vehicles, and 2 other near headquarters.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Corporation

 

In June 2023, a Nikola truck caught fire at its headquarters due to a coolant leak inside its battery pack. In August 2023, a second truck's battery pack malfunctioned, which led the company to announce a recall of all the battery-electric semitrucks it had made to that point (209 in total). The recall, however, did not impact Nikola's more recently released semitrucks powered by a hydrogen fuel cell. It also suspended sales of its battery-electric trucks until a repair would become available.^[66]

On September 4, 2023 a third truck caught fire at Arizona Lithium in Tempe, Arizona,^[67] and on September 8, a fourth truck fire occurred near Nikola's headquarters in Phoenix.^[68]

[impulse]

8 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

According to the US Government (2 different departments) and Insurance companies, EV fires are about 10 times less likely than internal combustion engine cars.

Sadly, the US gub'ment has lost pretty much all credibility when it comes to statistics like "the border is secure" or "safe and effective and necessary for kids".  They want so bad for people to buy EVs that I don't trust them.

[impulse]

9 hours ago, BenStark said:

Very poor attempt at discrediting a professional bicycle seller comparing him with the Chinese crap you hardly can afford.

 

Are you still working without work permit?

 

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/shop/sale/c/sale?q=%3Afeatured%3Aarchived%3Afalse%3Aclearance%3Atrue&sort=featured#/sort:ss_price:desc

You're suggesting that a $15K e-bike is a viable alternative to a $5,000 Wuling Mini EV?

 

I have a Specialized bike in the USA.  Made in Taiwan....  But you're right.  I'd never pay 15,000 USD, EU or GBP for a bicycle.  The value just isn't there unless you're competing at the top levels where 1/10 of a second can make the difference between 1st and 2nd place.  Or you go for an ostentatious show of wealth.

 

When did I work without a WP?  I often toured factories, placed orders and followed those orders on a business visa.  Never turned a wrench.  The reason I know that was legal is because I'd occasionally have to get a visa extension by going to the Public Security Bureau (CN Immigration) with a chopped copy of an open PO and a letter from the factory.  They'd cancel my existing visa and give me an extension until the end of the year.  During the 2008 Olympics, they weren't doing extensions so I'd fly out to Seoul for a weekend and a new visa.   I'm in Kanchanaburi right now on a visa run from China.  Where I'm on a 10 year tourist visa.  I haven't worked since 2017.  Don't need to....

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by impulse

[JBChiangRai]

8 hours ago, BenStark said:

 

• Insurance premiums for EV's are much higher than the same value ICE car

 

• Some buildings start to restrict EV's in their underground garages, same as with LPG vehicles.

 

• A close friend of me is an importer of Ligier compact electric vehicles, and has told me that he has had 3 fires of stationed vehicles so far, thereby destroying almost 40 others parked in the same location.

 

• I have links posted to this before, but of course the EV fanboys ignore them.

 

Nikola, the major manufacturer of electric trucks, has so far produced 209 trucks. FOUR of them have been reported to have caught fire, of which 2 brand-new trucks spontaneous enlightening on factory grounds and destroying other vehicles, and 2 other near headquarters.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Corporation

 

In June 2023, a Nikola truck caught fire at its headquarters due to a coolant leak inside its battery pack. In August 2023, a second truck's battery pack malfunctioned, which led the company to announce a recall of all the battery-electric semitrucks it had made to that point (209 in total). The recall, however, did not impact Nikola's more recently released semitrucks powered by a hydrogen fuel cell. It also suspended sales of its battery-electric trucks until a repair would become available.^[66]

On September 4, 2023 a third truck caught fire at Arizona Lithium in Tempe, Arizona,^[67] and on September 8, a fourth truck fire occurred near Nikola's headquarters in Phoenix.^[68]

Insurance premiums are not much higher, I just renewed the insurance on my daughter’s 1 year old MG EP+ for 8,800 baht.

 

Try carrying the fuel source for a petrol car on an airplane or posting it.

 

I haven’t seen any car parks preventing EV’s any links?

 

10 hours ago, BenStark said:

Any links?

https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/government-data-shows-gasoline-vehicles-are-significantly-more-prone-to-fires-than-evs/
 

On the EV threads here on AN this is covered in great detail. It’s an indisputable fact, EV’s catch fire between 10 and 130 times less often than ICE vehicles.

[BenStark]

16 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Insurance premiums are not much higher,

If you say so

 

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-insurance/electric-vehicle/

 

https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/is-there-any-difference-in-electric-car-insurance/

16 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/government-data-shows-gasoline-vehicles-are-significantly-more-prone-to-fires-than-evs/
 

On the EV threads here on AN this is covered in great detail. It’s an indisputable fact, EV’s catch fire between 10 and 130 times less often than ICE vehicles.

 

Most flawed study I ever saw, and of course could only be brought up by a desperate EV fanboy.

 

First of all, cars recalled doesn't mean they caught fire.

 

Who would have thought that there are more ICE fires, because there is only ONE EV for every 250 cars manufactured, and then we don't even take in account all the ICE cars in the running for ages.

 

https://8billiontrees.com/carbon-offsets-credits/cars/how-many-electric-cars-in-the-us/

 

EVs account for about 2.2% of all vehicles manufactured, meaning that there is only one car for every 250 standard models.

 

22 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Try carrying the fuel source for a petrol car on an airplane or posting it.

Nice attempt at deflection, but no cigar sir.

 

We were talking about lithium ion batteries, the kind that is use in EV's.

 

Those restrictions don't apply to other batteries