4 hours ago, stat said:

Thanks! The big question is if the income theshold is 60K Baht is for asseasable income or total income. What this shows is that they could always make it look like tax evasion.

After all of these posts, it appears that there is still confusion on three basic issues. Too much noise masking the signal.

 

Some of this confusion can be resolved by due diligence in studying the Thai tax code = taxpayer homework!

 

On the other hand, some of the confusion is due to translation issues, and some is due to the lack of explicit documentation clarifying exemptions and procedures regarding application of DTAs by the RD.

 

1. Q: Is the filing threshold based upon assessable income or total income?

A: Assessable Income

 

2. Q: What are the assessable income filing thresholds for income not only from employment (single/married) vs. income from employment only (single/married)?

A: PND.90 = 60,000/120,000;  PND.91 = 120,000/220,000

 

3. Q: What is assessable income?

A: Income under Section 40(1) to (8); however, under Section 42: The assessable income of 29 categories shall be exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation.

 

ASSESSABLE INCOME FILING THRESHOLDS FOR PND.90/91

It is most unfortunate that non-Thai readers cannot rely upon the English language” unofficial translations” posted on the Revenue Department website, such as the Guide to Personal Income Tax Return 2021 (PND.90/ภ.ง.ด.90) For taxpayers who received incomes not only from employment and the Guide to Personal Income Tax Return 2021 (PND.90/ภ.ง.ด.91) For taxpayers who received income from employment only.

 

This means that non-Thai readers, who may be misled by weak translation issues, are forced to rely upon more accurate “unofficial translations” by private law and tax consultancy firms with offices in Thailand, either through their websites or paid services, such as:

 

REFERENCE:  https://www.rsm.global/thailand/insights/rsm-focus/filing-pnd90-and-pnd91

PND.90 return is the personal income tax return to report the assessable income under Section 40(1) to (8) [for all 8 categories of income]

 

PND.91 return is the personal income tax return to report the assessable income under Section 40(1) obtained from employment [category 1 only]

 

[(40(1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment.]

 

Who is liable to pay personal income tax?

 

Filing of PND.90/91 returns are summarized below:

PND.90 return [income under Section 40(1) to (8)]	PND.91 return [income under Section 40(1) derived from employment only]
Single status and assessable income exceeding 60,000 baht.	Single status and assessable income exceeding 120,000 baht.
Marriage status and assessable income together exceeding 120,000 baht	Marriage status and assessable income together exceeding 220,000 baht

 

Additional Reference for PND.91:

https://www.mazars.co.th/content/download/1176493/59841085/version//file/Personal-income-tax-return-PND-91-A-closer-look-November-2023.pdf

 

Who must file Form PND 91?

A person must file a PND 91 if they have income as set out in Section 40(1) of the Revenue Code and meet one of the following conditions:

 

1. Single Person

Assessable income exceeding 120,000 baht in the tax year.

 

2. Married Person

Assessable income, combined with that of your spouse, exceeding 220,000 baht in the tax year.

 

When filing Form PND 91, there are 3 options to choose from regarding your filing status:

1. Spouse has income, and you are filing a joint tax return

2. Spouse has income, and spouse will file a separate tax return

3. Spouse has no income

 

3. Q: What is assessable income? Reference: https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

Section 39 In this Chapter, unless the context otherwise requires: Assessable income means income that is taxable under this Chapter.

 

Section 40 Assessable income is income of the following categories including any amount of tax paid by the payer of income or by any other person on behalf of a taxpayer.

 

A: Income under Section 40(1) to (8); however, under Section 42: The assessable income of the following categories shall be exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation: Reference: https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

(1 – 29) including e.g.,:

(10) Income derived from an inheritance.

(12) Special pension, special gratuity, inherited pension or inherited gratuity.

(13) Compensation against wrongful acts, amount derived from insurance [life insurance annuity] or from funeral assistance scheme.

(25) Compensatory benefit received by the taxpayer from the social security fund under the law governing social security.

(27) Income derived from maintenance and support or gifts from ascendants, descendants or spouse, but only for the portion not exceeding twenty million Baht throughout the tax year.

(28) Income derived from maintenances and support under moral purposes or gifts received in a ceremony or on occasions in accordance with custom and tradition from persons who are not ascendants, descendants or spouse, but only for the portion not exceeding ten million baht throughout the tax year.

SUMMARY: Assessable income under Section 40 includes income under Section 42 that “shall be exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation.”

 

Currently, the RD tax code under Section 42 does not specify that any category of income is exempt from taxation under DTAs.

 

Disclaimer: Guavaman is not a lawyer, CPA, or tax advisor – just another passenger on the Thai-Taxic, seeking to construct a lifeboat to survive the sinking of the tax haven.

3 minutes ago, Guavaman said:

PND.91 return [income under Section 40(1) derived from employment only]

Note: If a taxpayer chooses to file PND. 91, it means that the taxpayer accepts the default 15% withholding tax on interest on deposits in Thai bank accounts.  If the taxpayer chooses to claim any refund of that withholding tax, the taxpayer must file the more comprehensive PND. 90 filing form.

8 minutes ago, Guavaman said:

Thanks! The big question is if the income theshold is 60K Baht is for asseasable income or total income. What this shows is that they could always make it look like tax evasion.

Under the current tax law, assessable income for expats refers to funds that have been remitted to Thailand, depending upon how remittance will be defined practically by the RD.

42 minutes ago, Guavaman said:

Q: What is assessable income?

Confusion is caused by the diversity of the readers and the application of tax concepts and practiced in their home countries.

 

Thai tax residents must accept RD working definitions for assessable income in tax law.

Thailand: Assessable income under Section 40 includes income under Section 42 that “shall be exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation.”

 

Australia: A taxpayer's "assessable income" is broadly their ordinary income and their statutory income but excludes their exempt income.

 

USA IRS: Taxable income: Generally, an amount included in your income is taxable unless it is specifically exempted by law. Income that is taxable must be reported on your return and is subject to tax. Income that is nontaxable may have to be shown on your tax return but is not taxable. 

 

UK: Assessable income: the portion of one's income that is subject to tax.

 

The Revenue Department will confirm that: This is Thailand!

This tax stuff is way too complicated for retirees in Thailand. Unless filing a tax return is a mandatory requirement for visa renewal, this new regulation will go the way of motorcycle helmet laws.

17 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

This tax stuff is way too complicated for retirees in Thailand.

“The hardest thing in the world to understand is the Income Tax.” If these are your sentiments, you are in good company — the words are those of the late Albert Einstein.

3 hours ago, Guavaman said:

After all of these posts, it appears that there is still confusion on three basic issues. Too much noise masking the signal.

 

Some of this confusion can be resolved by due diligence in studying the Thai tax code = taxpayer homework!

 

On the other hand, some of the confusion is due to translation issues, and some is due to the lack of explicit documentation clarifying exemptions and procedures regarding application of DTAs by the RD.

 

1. Q: Is the filing threshold based upon assessable income or total income?

A: Assessable Income

 

2. Q: What are the assessable income filing thresholds for income not only from employment (single/married) vs. income from employment only (single/married)?

A: PND.90 = 60,000/120,000;  PND.91 = 120,000/220,000

 

3. Q: What is assessable income?

A: Income under Section 40(1) to (8); however, under Section 42: The assessable income of 29 categories shall be exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation.

 

ASSESSABLE INCOME FILING THRESHOLDS FOR PND.90/91

It is most unfortunate that non-Thai readers cannot rely upon the English language” unofficial translations” posted on the Revenue Department website, such as the Guide to Personal Income Tax Return 2021 (PND.90/ภ.ง.ด.90) For taxpayers who received incomes not only from employment and the Guide to Personal Income Tax Return 2021 (PND.90/ภ.ง.ด.91) For taxpayers who received income from employment only.

 

This means that non-Thai readers, who may be misled by weak translation issues, are forced to rely upon more accurate “unofficial translations” by private law and tax consultancy firms with offices in Thailand, either through their websites or paid services, such as:

 

REFERENCE:  https://www.rsm.global/thailand/insights/rsm-focus/filing-pnd90-and-pnd91

PND.90 return is the personal income tax return to report the assessable income under Section 40(1) to (8) [for all 8 categories of income]

 

PND.91 return is the personal income tax return to report the assessable income under Section 40(1) obtained from employment [category 1 only]

 

[(40(1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment.]

 

Who is liable to pay personal income tax?

 

Filing of PND.90/91 returns are summarized below:

PND.90 return [income under Section 40(1) to (8)]	PND.91 return [income under Section 40(1) derived from employment only]
Single status and assessable income exceeding 60,000 baht.	Single status and assessable income exceeding 120,000 baht.
Marriage status and assessable income together exceeding 120,000 baht	Marriage status and assessable income together exceeding 220,000 baht

 

Additional Reference for PND.91:

https://www.mazars.co.th/content/download/1176493/59841085/version//file/Personal-income-tax-return-PND-91-A-closer-look-November-2023.pdf

 

Who must file Form PND 91?

A person must file a PND 91 if they have income as set out in Section 40(1) of the Revenue Code and meet one of the following conditions:

 

1. Single Person

Assessable income exceeding 120,000 baht in the tax year.

 

2. Married Person

Assessable income, combined with that of your spouse, exceeding 220,000 baht in the tax year.

 

When filing Form PND 91, there are 3 options to choose from regarding your filing status:

1. Spouse has income, and you are filing a joint tax return

2. Spouse has income, and spouse will file a separate tax return

3. Spouse has no income

 

3. Q: What is assessable income? Reference: https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

Section 39 In this Chapter, unless the context otherwise requires: Assessable income means income that is taxable under this Chapter.

 

Section 40 Assessable income is income of the following categories including any amount of tax paid by the payer of income or by any other person on behalf of a taxpayer.

 

A: Income under Section 40(1) to (8); however, under Section 42: The assessable income of the following categories shall be exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation: Reference: https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

(1 – 29) including e.g.,:

(10) Income derived from an inheritance.

(12) Special pension, special gratuity, inherited pension or inherited gratuity.

(13) Compensation against wrongful acts, amount derived from insurance [life insurance annuity] or from funeral assistance scheme.

(25) Compensatory benefit received by the taxpayer from the social security fund under the law governing social security.

(27) Income derived from maintenance and support or gifts from ascendants, descendants or spouse, but only for the portion not exceeding twenty million Baht throughout the tax year.

(28) Income derived from maintenances and support under moral purposes or gifts received in a ceremony or on occasions in accordance with custom and tradition from persons who are not ascendants, descendants or spouse, but only for the portion not exceeding ten million baht throughout the tax year.

SUMMARY: Assessable income under Section 40 includes income under Section 42 that “shall be exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation.”

 

Currently, the RD tax code under Section 42 does not specify that any category of income is exempt from taxation under DTAs.

 

Disclaimer: Guavaman is not a lawyer, CPA, or tax advisor – just another passenger on the Thai-Taxic, seeking to construct a lifeboat to survive the sinking of the tax haven.

Once again, Guavaman has simplified complexity and brought greater understanding to the  subject matter, thank you. 

7 hours ago, stat said:

"If your foreign bank doesn't know you live in Thailand they won't send information to Thailand through CRS. They will send information to Thailand only if they have reason to believe you may be a Thai tax resident.  " So there is your recommendation.

I don't see how this is a recommendation. 

But I see that you and maybe others interpret it as as recommendation. 

I am not a tax expert,  and I wouldn't dare to give recommendations in tax matters. So, please,  mods, delete my post.

7 hours ago, stat said:

your theory

It's not MY theory. It has been said by others, quite often.  

6 hours ago, Guavaman said:

USA IRS: Taxable income: Generally, an amount included in your income is taxable unless it is specifically exempted by law. Income that is taxable must be reported on your return and is subject to tax. Income that is nontaxable may have to be shown on your tax return but is not taxable. 

I will guess this may be what happens in Thailand especially if  the Form is modified to show 'Credits' (as per Mazars report) including non-assessible foreign-sourced income and some explanation why it is non-assessible.

 

Else one could have 2 million baht foreign-sourced annual income deposited in a Thai bank account and claim no report required as it is non-assessible income. Scouts honor. Trust me.

12 hours ago, stat said:

You wrote: "If your foreign bank doesn't know you live in Thailand they won't send information to Thailand through CRS. They will send information to Thailand only if they have reason to believe you may be a Thai tax resident.  " So there is your recommendation.

 

You clearly imply that you actually live in TH in your example and do not want that your CRS information is send to TH. Pls read your post again. Regarding your theory it is just that, no one knows what they will make of it or whom they are targeting. They made up a directive without thinking it through.

Nonsense, that's not a recommendation, not in any shape or form. It's a hypothesis and an extrapolation of an assumption regarding what banks may do and how they may act.

4 hours ago, Lorry said:

I don't see how this is a recommendation. 

But I see that you and maybe others interpret it as as recommendation. 

I am not a tax expert,  and I wouldn't dare to give recommendations in tax matters. So, please,  mods, delete my post.

It's not MY theory. It has been said by others, quite often.  

It isn't, the issue here is dogs peeing on lampposts and marking their territory! 

7 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

This tax stuff is way too complicated for retirees in Thailand. Unless filing a tax return is a mandatory requirement for visa renewal, this new regulation will go the way of motorcycle helmet laws.

Sure but who would be a 180+ day tax Resident in Thailand who does not deal with an IMM office for extension of stay or deal with IMM at an entry point every 90 days on a one-year multiple entry visa except <self-deleted>.

7 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

This tax stuff is way too complicated for retirees in Thailand. Unless filing a tax return is a mandatory requirement for visa renewal, this new regulation will go the way of motorcycle helmet laws.

Funny you should mention motorcycle helmets, my wife observed only yesterday whilst we were sat at  a light how many people war helmets these days.

 

It is not too complicated, it is actually remarkably simple and for most people will be almost the same thing, year in year out. In these days of spreadsheets and PC's, making a simple calculation is easy done, thereafter it's a form filling exercise. I start tracking mine in January of each year, for the following year, it's part of my budgeting and expense process that takes a few minutes each week. Come January I request statements from my banks, I also order statements of interest paid and tax with held, the banks do the whole thing for us. I think what is daunting for most average people at this stage is the fear of the unknown, fear of "The Revenue" and the lack of familiarity with the subject matter. Get stuck in, the RD people are super helpful and will do it for you if you ask,they are used to foreigners asking for help. This time next year you'll look back and laugh and wonder what all the kerfuffle was about.

 

3 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I think what is daunting for most average people at this stage is the fear of the unknown, fear of "The Revenue" and the lack of familiarity with the subject matter. Get stuck in, the RD people are super helpful and will do it for you if you ask,they are used to foreigners asking for help.

 

I think what is most daunting is the prospect of paying tax in a case where none was payable before - not some anxiety at the process involved.

 

There are always some clerical types who will get off on completing the paperwork.Happy Christmas to them.

 

Yes I'm sure RD bureaucrats were super helpful to eager foreigners especially those naive enough to insist on making tax returns when it wasn't really necessary.Let's see how helpful they are when it is actually necessary.

3 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

I think what is most daunting is the prospect of paying tax in a case where none was payable before - not some anxiety at the process involved.

 

There are always some clerical types who will get off on completing the paperwork.Happy Christmas to them.

 

Yes I'm sure RD bureaucrats were super helpful to eager foreigners especially those naive enough to insist on making tax returns when it wasn't really necessary.Let's see how helpful they are when it is actually necessary.

I thought it went without saying that there's an upfront process everyone needs to go through first which is an impact assessment. Everyone needs to sit down and do a back of the fag packet calculation that assesses whether or not additional tax must be paid, if so, how much and in light of those answers, whether or not it's worth staying or whether they want to leave. I've assumed most people already understand those impacts and if you haven't started packing, you just need to get over the psychological barrier and join the rest of us by filling out the forms. The alternative is to hide under the bed and suffer periodic angst every time the phone rings or an unusual letter arrives in the mail. Jeez, this is not rocket science, it's a simple tax return.

22 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The alternative is to hide under the bed and suffer periodic angst every time the phone rings or an unusual letter arrives in the mail.

... or repeatedly ponder the question: "How will they ever find out if I ..."

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

. I've assumed most people already understand those impacts and if you haven't started packing, you just need to get over the psychological barrier and join the rest of us by filling out the forms.

 

You don't speak for the "rest of us", so tone down the rhetoric.The reality is that many resident expatriate retirees, quite legally, have not up to now been paying Thai income tax.Most realize that for the tax year 2024 they will probably have to, although many details still remain unclear.There is no psychological barrier and I'm assuming that most will do what is required to remain within the law.You have jumped the gun by filing prematurely but that's your choice and obviously I don't know your personal circumstances.

 

Incidentally your "decide whether to leave or stay" spiel misses the mark.Most of us are not floating wanderers seeking the most attractive fiscal regime but wholly committed to Thailand.Unlike you some of us have permanent residence or even citizenship We will obey the law and seek to minimize tax paid.

2 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

You don't speak for the "rest of us", so tone down the rhetoric.The reality is that many resident expatriate retirees, quite legally, have not up to now been paying Thai income tax.Most realize that for the tax year 2024 they will probably have to, although many details still remain unclear.There is no psychological barrier and I'm assuming that most will do what is required to remain within the law.You have jumped the gun by filing prematurely but that's your choice and obviously I don't know your personal circumstances.

 

Incidentally your "decide whether to leave or stay" spiel misses the mark.Most of us are not floating wanderers seeking the most attractive fiscal regime but wholly committed to Thailand.Unlike you some of us have permanent residence or even citizenship We will obey the law and seek to minimize tax paid.

I would never presume to speak for anyone, other than myself so perhaps read what I have written more carefully, slowly and in a less defensive manner.

 

 

I am not a floating wanderer either, I have a home and family here, as I have done for over the past 20 years or more, full time. No, I have not jumped the gun by filing tax returns in previous years, unlike many others I have merely followed the law and the rules that dictate I must do so. But I also file tax returns for the UK and the US also, every year, because the rules say I must. And I also have told my "home" government my whereabouts and file as a non-UK resident for tax purpose, which matches up with what DWP understands when it pays me my State Pension and doesn't pay me annual increases or a heating allowance in Thailand! Of course for anyone who has told those agencies different stories, changes to the tax filing arrangements will be a significant barrier, phytological and financial, I imagine!!!

 

10 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Of course for anyone who has told those agencies different stories, changes to the tax filing arrangements will be a significant barrier, phytological and financial, I imagine!!!

 

What has this to do with the subject? The vast majority of resident expatriates do not falsify their position with their home countries nor do they intend to evade tax responsibilities in Thailand.

3 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

What has this to do with the subject? The vast majority of resident expatriates do not falsify their position with their home countries nor do they intend to evade tax responsibilities in Thailand.

I'm very pleased to hear that you think that but anecdotal evidence from AN points to many UK posters doing differently. What it has to do with the subject is it helps account for some of the angst felt by some posters, because filing a tax return in Thailand risks unmasking their whereabouts. 

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

the RD people are super helpful and will do it for you if you ask, 

 

 

That will get old very very quick.

and will end up as friendly and pernickety and nasty as immigration mostly are.

 

 

6 minutes ago, quake said:

 

That will get old very very quick.

and will end up as friendly and pernickety and nasty as immigration mostly are.

 

 

He is quite right that the guys at the RD will help you fill in a form and be reasonably cheerful about it... I gave them a big tin of biscuits to sweeten the task! That might well be when we were a rare visitor. If every farang on a retirement extension turned up asking for the favour, yes they would get fed up. I took a look at the form, it was of course only in Thai and I would not have known where to start!

24 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

He is quite right that the guys at the RD will help you fill in a form and be reasonably cheerful about it... I gave them a big tin of biscuits to sweeten the task! 

 

Note to self  ...  buy shares in biscuit-manufacturers, on the first working-day after Christmas !  

 

But I must admit, I followed a similar strategy when having a problem at Immigration, a couple-of-years ago.

 

Merry Christmas to all expats !  And to keep smiling !  

One week to go.  Just transferred 1.2 million baht here.  Less golf and girls planned for next year.

2 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

One week to go.  Just transferred 1.2 million baht here.  Less golf and girls planned for next year.

I had plans, but darn that baht has recently got more expensive!

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

He is quite right that the guys at the RD will help you fill in a form and be reasonably cheerful about it... I gave them a big tin of biscuits to sweeten the task! That might well be when we were a rare visitor. If every farang on a retirement extension turned up asking for the favour, yes they would get fed up. I took a look at the form, it was of course only in Thai and I would not have known where to start!

There are English language versions of both PND90 and PND91, both are easily downloaded, both have been shown in these threads.....one is here and the sample is even filled out for you, how easy can it be:

 

 

Here are the English language tax forms download but note the last update was 8/9/2023, there may be newer versions after 1 January 2024

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/62892.html

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

I had plans, but darn that baht has recently got more expensive!

One suspects a last-minute rush of resident-expats, getting their dosh into the country, before the deadline !  

13 hours ago, Guavaman said:

USA IRS: Taxable income: Generally, an amount included in your income is taxable unless it is specifically exempted by law. Income that is taxable must be reported on your return and is subject to tax. Income that is nontaxable may have to be shown on your tax return but is not taxable. 

 

Actually, Taxable Income (TI) is Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) less your Standard Deduction (or itemizations, if those are greater than Standard Deduction). So, AGI is equivalent to the Thai "assessable income" (AI). And in a similar fashion to the US, Thai Taxable Income would be what's left after you subtract out allowances and exemptions. Thus, if single, you automatically have at least 210,000 (150+60) subtracted out from your assessable income to arrive at Taxable Income. But, you're required to file a return if you have 120,000 in AI; but you have no Taxable Income until your assessable income exceeds 210,000..... So, why do the Thais want all these tax forms filed if there's no taxable income, thus no check attached? Are they taking a survey? Dumb.

 

To the US example, you don't have to file a tax return if you have no Taxable Income (unless you're self-employed). Of course, most do file, mainly to get back over withholdings of taxes.

14 hours ago, Guavaman said:

Currently, the RD tax code under Section 42 does not specify that any category of income is exempt from taxation under DTAs.

 

If push came to shove between a country's Tax Code and a Tax Treaty, the treaty would prevail. As an example. The US Tax Code says that you can get a tax credit on your US tax return for taxes paid to a foreign country IF those taxes were against foreign earned income. But, under the US DTA with Thailand, for example, if Thailand gets exclusivity (overriden by the saving clause, however) in the taxation of my IRA or private pension (which they do, if, currently remitted), the treaty says I can get a credit for those taxes paid on my IRA, even tho' this is US income, not foreign income. You simply have to attach Form 8833 to your tax credit Form 1116, which tells the IRS that their Code has been trumped by an international treaty.

 

Hopefully, we won't have to get the Embassy involved with the Ministry of Finance over any misunderstandings.....