Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, UKresonant said:

Suggestion, add "of the following year" to the tail of "8"

 

 

The proof the savings principle has previously been taxed may also become relevant / useful going forward?

 

(I'm thinking of, for example I [whilst non-resident] save £1000 from taxed income in 2024 and put it in an isolated savings account, any interest is either not credited or immediately transferred out and I remit the principle to Thailand in 2030 [whilst resident]. Obviously would remit savings when non-resident if the opportunity & anticipation was prevailing.)

 

It's already attached to the tail of 15 where the subject is discussed in more detail.

[Mike Lister]

Draft Copy 4, with links, most data and comments/suggestions incorporated.

 

I'll leave it now for the rest of the day and will pick up any comments/questions later. This needs to be useable and understandable for the average person, if you think it needs changes, say so.

 

 

1. This guide has been compiled in an attempt to provide readers with the simplest possible over view of Personal Income Tax (PIT) in Thailand. The scope of this document is limited to PIT.

 

2. You may have heard that new tax laws came into effect on 1 January this year, in fact, that is not true! The old tax rules still exist and remain valid, albeit just one minor change to them was made in November last year. Previously, anyone who earned money overseas and remitted it to Thailand in a different tax year, received that money free of Thai tax. That loop hole in the Revenue Department (RD) tax code has been extensively exploited by wealthy Thai’s and is now closed, hence, any money earned overseas and remitted to Thailand in any year, is now liable to Thai tax. The purpose of the new rule is to prevent tax avoidance. Unfortunately, it now means that overseas funds transfers by foreigners living in Thailand, also have an increased risk of being taxed.

 

3. This guide is an overview of the core parts of the PIT system. It is not designed to be exhaustive and it doesn’t cover all aspects of PIT, nor is it intended to  override anything produced by the Thai Revenue or specialist tax companies such as Sherrings or Mazzars. This guide also does not address all types of income or the rules relevant to people from every country. What this guide will provide is a starting point for readers to manage their own tax affairs and it will also provide most of the answers for those with simple tax affairs, especially the average pensioner.

 

4. There are also certain types of visa that fall outside of the RD tax code. The LTR visa for example received its tax exempt status by royal decree hence visa holders will not to be assessed for Thai tax and they are specifically excluded from this explanation.

 

5. Terminology: this document uses the word “assessable” often. Assessable in the context of this document means income that is liable to tax and must be included on a Thai tax return. Not all income is assessable, some is excluded from tax assessment by its very nature or because of the terms of a specific tax agreement.

 

6. Dual Tax Agreement/Double Tax Agreement (DTA): is an agreement between two countries that sets out which of the two countries has the right to tax specific types of income and all the associated rules. It’s purpose, in part, is to ensure that the same funds are not taxed twice and provides a means by which tax that is paid twice, can be recovered, how and from where.

 

7. If you stay in Thailand for more than a cumulative 180 days, between 1 January and 31 December each year, you will be considered to be Tax Resident in Thailand during that year, regardless of the type of visa you have. It doesn’t matter that you may be Tax Resident in your home country or elsewhere or that you pay tax in those countries, Thailand will still regard you as Tax Resident. Tax Residency and Immigration status (and the visa you hold) are different things. Tax residency is based solely on the number of days you spend in Thailand and where you are at midnight on each day.

 

8. Because you are Tax Resident, YOU must review your income each year to determine if it is regarded as assessable to tax in Thailand, nobody else will do this for you. If your income does not exceed 120,000 baht per year, you do not need to file a tax return (60,000 baht if your only income is bank interest paid to you by a bank in Thailand). If your income is over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a Thai tax return between 1 January and 31 March.

 

9. Your income in Thailand is defined as any money paid to you inside Thailand, as well as, any money you receive from overseas, both types are potentially assessable income for Tax Residents. There are many types of income that can be classed as assessable, the Thai RD lists some of them and is linked below, however, the list is not exhaustive:.

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html#:~:text=Section%2040%20of%20Thailand's%20Revenue,Pensions%3B%20and

 

10. There are also classes or types of income that the RD does not regard as assessable and these are also linked below:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

 

11. Income that is derived from  within Thailand is fairly clear, if you work and have a job and you are a Tax Resident, your income is assessable for tax.  Interest that is paid to you on Thai bank accounts is regarded as income, as is income from investments such as stocks and bonds within Thailand.  You should note that if you are generating income by working while staying in Thailand, it is (and has always been) irrelevant where that money is paid and whether you bring the money into the country or keep it offshore. That money arises in Thailand hence it is taxable here.

 

12. It is not possible to give the same blanket rule to everyone to determine whether income is assessable or not because of the variables involved. Overseas income has to pass several tests to determine if it is assessable to Thai tax or not. It is still early days and all the rules are not yet clear. It has been said that tax residents who import funds from countries that have a DTA with Thailand, will not be effected. Exactly how that will work leaves many questions unanswered hence this document attempts to look at only the most popular types of income based on what is known at present. This document does not speculate as to what may happen in the future, other than in the segment at the end concerning likely future Immigration rules.

 

13. If we take the simplest type of income and say that you transfer personal savings from overseas to Thailand and those savings  were earned before 1 January 2024, those funds are not assessable. But savings earned after that date are, hence the date when the income is earned is extremely important. A word of caution, you may be asked to provide proof that savings were earned before 1 January 2024.  

 

14. Another common type of income is pensions, which can be complicated, depending on the type of pension and the country that it comes from. The country of origin is important because there are over 60 different types of Dual Tax Agreements, sometimes called Double Taxation Agreements (DTA’s), between Thailand and those 60+ countries and each one is different. As a general rule, most private or company pensions from most countries appear to be assessable here but YOU will need to confirm that yours is or is not. If that is true, private and company pension income IS assessable income in Thailand.

 

15. US Social Security payments, a form of pension paid to some older people, can only be taxed by the US under DTA rules and Thailand is forbidden from taxing them, this means those payments are NOT assessable income. UK State pension on the other hand is not covered by a DTA so it is assessable income in Thailand whilst UK Government or Civil Service pensions are not!

 

16. The proceeds from the sale of a capital item such as overseas property, where funds are remitted to Thailand, is one popular source of funds, the sale of some investment products such as stocks, shares and bonds is another. Those proceeds typically comprise two parts, capital and profit. If the capital was acquired before 1 January 2024, it is free of Thai tax. One way to separate capital and profit may bee to have an official valuation or statement that is dated 1 January 2024 since anything earned before that date, is not assessable. Also, if the profit has been the subject of a Capital Gains return in the home country, that also may be free of Thai tax but this cannot be guaranteed at this time, until things are made more clear and are once again subject to the terms of any DTA. YOU will need to review the DTA between Thailand and your home  country to fully understand what particular clauses affect you.

 

17. It appears as though most property rental income that is remitted to Thailand is considered to be assessable income and is taxable here, unless of course it has been taxed in the home country and/or the DTA prohibits its taxation (which seems unlikely).

 

18. YOU are responsible for determining if you have the minimum assessable income in Thailand each year which means you must file a tax return. That assessable income might comprise, pension payments, investment income, rental income or any of the other types of income listed in the link above. If you have assessable income of over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a tax return (60,000 baht if your sole source of assessable income is bank interest paid in Thailand).

 

19. Before you can file a tax return in Thailand, you need to acquire a Tax Identification Number or TIN from the RD offices in your area. You will need your passport, a valid and current visa or extension and in many areas, a Certificate of Residency from the Immigration Department.

 

20. Completing a tax return is a simple affair for most people, if you have difficulty, the Revenue Department staff are extremely helpful. Tax returns must be filed between 1 January and 30 March each year, if you file later than that, penalties will apply.

 

21. Thai tax is layered in bands and is payable based on the amount of assessable income falls within each band and are shown and linked below:

Taxable Income per year(Baht) Tax rate

0 – 150,000 Exempt

150,000 – 300,000 5%

300,000 – 500,000 10%

500,000 – 750,000 15%

750,000 – 1,000,000 20%

1,000,000 – 2,000,000 25%

2,000,000 – 4,000,000 30%

Over 4,000,000 35%

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

22. The Thai tax system contains a series of Allowances, Deductions and Exemptions that will help you reduce your tax bill and they are very generous. It is easily possible for the average expat foreign retiree to reduce their taxable income by 500,000 baht or more each year. For example, a retiree aged 65 years of age, married and living here full  time, supporting a Thai wife who has no income and doesn’t file tax return, is allowed the following:

 

a. Personal Allowance for self - 60,000

b. Personal Allowance for wife - 60,000

c. Over age 65 years exemption - 190,000

d. 50% of pension income received, up to 100k - 100,000

e. In addition, the first 150,000 of assessable income is zero rated and free of tax

 

23. Additional deductions and allowances exist for health or life insurance premiums paid in Thailand. A complete list of deductions, allowances and exemptions can be found here

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html  or from Sherrings below.

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

24. The Thai Revenue  tax filing system is online but is only available in Thai language at present. The tax forms are however available in English and they can be downloaded from the link below. CAUTION, the forms are updated every year and the 2023/24 forms for full year PIT are NOT yet available:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/63902.html

 

25. A simple sample completed tax form for a person aged over 65 years is shown below.

26. SAMPLE FORM

 

27. Tax filing in Thailand is based on the honour system, it relies on you declaring all the right information every year and there are severe penalties for avoiding Thai tax. It would be foolish and a gross under estimation of RD capabilities to think  that doing nothing and keeping a low profile means you should ignore Thai taxation. Very few sane people in the US and UK ignore the tax authorities who tend to have a long reach. It cannot be ruled out that at some point, a link may be established between tax filings and visa extensions, along with tax clearance certificates required to leave the country. This is possible because similar things have been adopted in several countries in the past, including the US.

 

28. There are several sources of detailed tax information and these web sites are linked below:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, Guavaman said:

We can't just say: "My social security benefit payment is non-assessable income, so it doesn't count for the income threshold for filing a tax return"

 

Ok, then just say: "My social security benefit is not taxable by Thailand, due to the DTA, so it doesn't count for the income threshold for filing a tax return." Or you can say, " it isn't assessable income" if you're having a problem with "non-assessable." This thread is already the most larded discussion we've ever had on this forum; and now we're getting into a semantics "gotcha." Bizarre.

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I think that is an opinion rather than fact. Unless the Thai RD is made aware of the nature of the income, it does not know whether it is assessible or not.

 

What I said:

 

Quote

Thai RD is NOT interested in non assessable income (again, income exempted by treaty, like gov't pensions for most OECD countries -- or, again, any income not remitted). Thus, if you have enough assessable income requiring you to file a Thai tax return, you would NOT include line items of non assessable income.

 

Does your statement mean that RD should be shown all your income in order for them to determine its assessability (taxability would be a better term)? I think you do, due to an earlier post by you (which I'll try and locate), where you state that you and the RD clerk go over all your income to determine what should be filed, and what shouldn't. I maintain that that is a step not needed, as most of us can determine whether our foreign income is subject to Thai taxation, or not. But, I guess you don't agree, which, of course, is your right.

[Mike Lister]

18 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 

What I said:

 

 

Does your statement mean that RD should be shown all your income in order for them to determine its assessability (taxability would be a better term)? I think you do, due to an earlier post by you (which I'll try and locate), where you state that you and the RD clerk go over all your income to determine what should be filed, and what shouldn't. I maintain that that is a step not needed, as most of us can determine whether our foreign income is subject to Thai taxation, or not. But, I guess you don't agree, which, of course, is your right.

What I wrote was that I declared everything, assessible and not assessible, I left it up to the RD to decide what they wanted to enter into their (Thai) online system although, my bottom line agreed with their number, as I also said.

 

What my statement means is that you have no proof of what you wrote, "Thai RD is NOT interested in non assessable income (again, income exempted by treaty). Until you do, what I wrote remains true, "I think that is an opinion rather than fact".

 

[JimGant]

3 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

What I wrote was that I declared everything, assessible and not assessible, I left it up to the RD to decide what they wanted to enter into their (Thai) online system although, my bottom line agreed with their number, as I also said.

 

What my statement means is that you have no proof of what you wrote, "Thai RD is NOT interested in non assessable income (again, income exempted by treaty). Until you do, what I wrote remains true, "I think that is an opinion rather than fact".

 

Ok, you win. If I have to file a Thai tax return, I'll include all my Air Force pensions, Social Security, and other income exempted by treaty. Now, where on the form should I put this? And after I do, where on the form would I back it out, since it's not taxable income -- which the RD would know, and wonder what kind of jerk would include it in the first place....

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 

Ok, you win. If I have to file a Thai tax return, I'll include all my Air Force pensions, Social Security, and other income exempted by treaty. Now, where on the form should I put this? And after I do, where on the form would I back it out, since it's not taxable income -- which the RD would know, and wonder what kind of jerk would include it in the first place....

Jim, I really don't care what you do or how you do it, for the 'nth time, this thread is not about just you! 

 

If you want to be argumentative, go find somebody else to fight with or put me on your ignore list, I really don't care but I have had enough of your abusive tone. If you can't be civil and debate reasonably, don't even try. 

[paddypower]

On 12/20/2023 at 1:29 PM, jerrymahoney said:

To the above: I have used the 65K per month retirement extension method since the game change 4 years ago -- in 2 different offices.

 

They both want to see a statement from my Thai bank with monthly FTT deposits. No US (in my case) statement required.

 

And they both have requested (demanded?) a Source-of-funds letter which I have provided showing a monthly transfer -- which in my case -- meets the definition of" monthly income retirement pension" AND 'annuity' under Article 20 Par. 3 US-Thailand DTA.

 

Thanks for sharing. I'm curious to know why my IO link still shows clause 5....the one which refers to the option to combine income and cert. of balance on term deposit for the appropriate period.

[jayboy]

3 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Jim, I really don't care what you do or how you do it, for the 'nth time, this thread is not about just you! 

 

If you want to be argumentative, go find somebody else to fight with or put me on your ignore list, I really don't care but I have had enough of your abusive tone. If you can't be civil and debate reasonably, don't even try. 

 

Actually he has a perfectly reasonable point.If it is quite clear that if certain income stream/s (probably best ask competent Thai tax adviser to confirm in case of doubt) are not subject to Thai tax, then I see no point in including them in Thai tax return.This complies with Thai requirements and avoids the boring task of sitting down with RD to decide what is taxable and what is not.

[Mike Lister]

Just now, jayboy said:

 

Actually he has a perfectly reasonable point.If it is quite clear that if certain income stream/s (probably best ask competent Thai tax adviser to confirm in case of doubt) are not subject to Thai tax, then I see no point in including them in Thai tax return.This complies with Thai requirements and avoids the boring task of sitting down with RD to decide what is taxable and what is not.

In which case, somebody needs to post a link that confirms that and if they do, I will view it as fact also. But until then, it's only opinion.

[jayboy]

11 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

In which case, somebody needs to post a link that confirms that and if they do, I will view it as fact also. But until then, it's only opinion.

 

Yes, one of several matters that needs clarification in a scenario which is far from static.However given what we now know there is no downside as far as I can see in omitting non-taxable income.In the unlikely event of an audit, investigation by RD would simply confirm not taxable.

 

Incidentally thanks for the summary - very useful.

 

 

[ChrisParis75]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

12. It is not possible to give the same blanket rule to everyone to determine whether income is assessable or not because of the variables involved. Overseas income has to pass several tests to determine if it is assessable to Thai tax or not. It is still early days and all the rules are not yet clear. It has been said that tax residents who import funds from countries that have a DTA with Thailand, will not be effected. Exactly how that will work leaves many questions unanswered hence this document attempts to look at only the most popular types of income based on what is known at present. 

 

 

This idea ("DTA = shield") is just false... in somes cases.

 

A DTA aims to prevent to tax 2 TIMES the same income of the same amount.

 

But it doesn't mean that one of the DTA's party... could not TAX MORE !

 

I gave this example (my situation), because it's very straightforward.

 

-french national living in Thailand, full time

-for the french tax department i am a "non resident"

-for the thai tax department i am a "resident" (more than 180 days)

 

-i earn dividends in France paid by a french company

-i pay to the french tax department a flat income tax of 12,8 % (a french resident would pay.. 33 % instead because of very high "social security" taxes added to the income tax).

 

-the Thailand/France DTA is very clear : the thai tax department will give me a TAX CREDIT of the amount paid in France (12,8 %)... but then could very well ask me to pay 35 % (their highest bracket) minus 12,8 = 22,2 % of thai income tax ! (but only if I send this money in Thailand, of course).

 

Before the new rule... when sending the money to Thailand, I could very well "disguise" my dividend income into... "savings" (AKA income earned year -1). Case closed, no tax to pay in Thailand.

 

With the new rule... the risk is obvious.

 

I don't say that Thailand will do it... I just say that it would perfectly logical (and legal).

 

Few understand that this little calendar rule (year -1) made Thailand... a real "tax paradise" (for us earning money abroad !).

 

And when I say "us" i mean foreigners... and rich thai citizens as well !!!

[Mike Lister]

6 minutes ago, ChrisParis75 said:

 

This idea ("DTA = shield") is just false... in somes cases.

 

A DTA aims to prevent to tax 2 TIMES the same income of the same amount.

 

But it doesn't mean that one of the DTA's party... could not TAX MORE !

 

I gave this example (my situation), because it's very straightforward.

 

-french national living in Thailand, full time

-for the french tax department i am a "non resident"

-for the thai tax department i am a "resident" (more than 180 days)

 

-i earn dividends in France paid by a french company

-i pay to the french tax department a flat income tax of 12,8 % (a french resident would pay.. 33 % instead because of very high "social security" taxes added to the income tax).

 

-the Thailand/France DTA is very clear : the thai tax department will give me a TAX CREDIT of the amount paid in France (12,8 %)... but then could very well ask me to pay 35 % (their highest bracket) minus 12,8 = 22,2 % of thai income tax ! (but only if I send this money in Thailand, of course).

 

Before the new rule... when sending the money to Thailand, I could very well "disguise" my dividend income into... "savings" (AKA income earned year -1). Case closed, no tax to pay in Thailand.

 

With the new rule... the risk is obvious.

 

I don't say that Thailand will do it... I just say that it would perfectly logical (and legal).

 

Few understand that this little calendar rule (year -1) made Thailand... a real "tax paradise" (for us earning money abroad !).

 

And when I say "us" i mean foreigners... and rich thai citizens as well !!!

Nobody seems able to read properly!

 

I never suggested the DTA is a shield of any type.

 

What I wrote is:

 

"It has been said that tax residents who import funds from countries that have a DTA with Thailand, will not be effected. Exactly how that will work leaves many questions unanswered hence this document attempts to look at only the most popular types of income based on what is known at present". 

 

[Shoeless Joe]

My increasing ignorance regarding this subject is frightening. THANK YOU TO EVERYONE (especially MIKE LISTER) for trying to educate me and others like me.

I have to renew my retirement visa (Non Imm O with Thai wife) in March. A couple of qustions:

1) Do I have to take a completed PIT form with me to immigration when I renew my visa?

2) My income is derived from pensions -

State Pension (formerly the Old Age Pension) = £456.12 per month

NHS work pension = £1918.89 per month

I also get a pension of £9.50 per month

They are all taxed at source and paid into my UK bank account and I transfer circa 100,000 baht per month into my Thai bank account. Does anyone have any idea what my Thai tax liability might be or should I find the local RD office and leave it to them?

Thank you.

Joe

[tomkenet]

40 minutes ago, ChrisParis75 said:

Thailand... a real "tax paradise" (for us earning money abroad !).

And still is. Remittance of savings taxfree, earning money abroad taxfree if kept abroad or spent abroad.

[jerrymahoney]

As has been noted the USofA, other countries, and Thailand run their tax ops on the self-reporting "Honor System". This has been my experience with expat Americans in Thailand and the honor system:

 

For 10+ years I went to get an affidavit of income for Thailand retirement extension either at the US Embassy -- Bangkok or on a Counselor outreach.

 

People Kingdom-wide would say: I know lots of Americans on retirement extension and NOT ONE of them actually has the 65K monthly income. The common word was: So what was going to happen?

 

The US Embassy could do nothing because all that was really being sworn to is that This is Jerry Mahoney and this is what he says under penalty of perjury. Nothing about whether the Embassy thinks the statement was in fact true.

 

So what if I say (to myself) All my income is in the not assessable / exempt category because it was an inheritance from my Aunt Dolores. Barring an audit, how would RD ever know that you never had an Aunt Dolores dead or living.

 

Knowingly making a materially false statement to a US Federal officer in his/her official capacity -- as was routinely done for years often physically right in the US Embassy -- can be a felony charge.

 

And people just laughed it off. 

 

So as per the Thai tax system and the expat community I would say: If people think that there is no downside and that they get away with it, at least for now, they will.

 

 

[Mike Lister]

23 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

As has been noted the USofA, other countries, and Thailand run their tax ops on the self-reporting "Honor System". This has been my experience with expat Americans in Thailand and the honor system:

 

For 10+ years to get an affidavit of income for Thailand retirement extension either at the US Embassy -- Bangkok or on a Counselor outreach.

 

People Kingdom-wide would say: I know lots of Americans on retirement extension and NOT ONE of them actually has the 65K monthly income. The common word was: So what was going to happen?

 

The US Embassy could do nothing because all that was really being sworn to is that This is Jerry Mahoney and this is what he says under penalty of perjury. Nothing about whether the Embassy thinks the statement was in fact true.

 

So what if I say (to myself) All my income is in the not assessable / exempt category because it was an inheritance from my Aunt Dolores. Barring an audit, how would RD ever know that you never had an Aunt Dolores dead or living.

 

Knowingly making a materially false statement to a US Federal officer in his/her official capacity -- as was routinely done for years often physically right in the US Embassy -- can be a felony charge.

 

And people just laughed it off. 

 

So as per the Thai tax system and the expat community I would say: If people think that there is no downside and that they get away with it, at least for now, they will.

 

 

Others mileage may vary but I don't want to live my retirement years in a foreign country, looking over my shoulder and/or waiting for the hammer to fall.

[jerrymahoney]

5 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Others mileage may vary but I don't want to live my retirement years in a foreign country, looking over my shoulder and/or waiting for the hammer to fall.

I agree. And my income is already reported per monthly to Immigration. But my faith in these type matters regarding the expat population in Thailand as a whole is way down when a  common attitude is "Catch me if you can."

[TheAppletons]

1 hour ago, Shoeless Joe said:

My increasing ignorance regarding this subject is frightening. THANK YOU TO EVERYONE (especially MIKE LISTER) for trying to educate me and others like me.

I have to renew my retirement visa (Non Imm O with Thai wife) in March. A couple of qustions:

1) Do I have to take a completed PIT form with me to immigration when I renew my visa?

2) My income is derived from pensions -

State Pension (formerly the Old Age Pension) = £456.12 per month

NHS work pension = £1918.89 per month

I also get a pension of £9.50 per month

They are all taxed at source and paid into my UK bank account and I transfer circa 100,000 baht per month into my Thai bank account. Does anyone have any idea what my Thai tax liability might be or should I find the local RD office and leave it to them?

Thank you.

Joe

 

 

1.  No, Immigration does not require this documentation for an annual non-O extension.

 

(I am not a tax professional and this should not be construed as tax advice.)

 

 

[Yumthai]

5 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

But my faith in these type matters regarding the expat population in Thailand as a whole is way down when a  common attitude is "Catch me if you can."

 

The "Catch me if you can" attitude reflects the whole Thai population way of being/mindset.

 

Most of foreign residents just adapt ; the others, who cognitively can't, suffer all along their journey desperately struggling to shove a square peg into the round hole.

 

[jerrymahoney]

13 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

 

The "Catch me if you can" attitude reflects the whole Thai population way of being/mindset.

 

Most of foreign residents just adapt ; the others, who cognitively can't, suffer all along their journey desperately struggling to shove a square peg into the round hole.

 

Whether I agree with you or not, this whole tax scheme as it involves expats, as opposed to Thai citizens, will only be successful if there is some downside recourse to not complying truthfully and completely.

[MartinL]

2 hours ago, Shoeless Joe said:

My increasing ignorance regarding this subject is frightening. THANK YOU TO EVERYONE (especially MIKE LISTER) for trying to educate me and others like me.

I have to renew my retirement visa (Non Imm O with Thai wife) in March. A couple of qustions:

1) Do I have to take a completed PIT form with me to immigration when I renew my visa?

2) My income is derived from pensions -

State Pension (formerly the Old Age Pension) = £456.12 per month

NHS work pension = £1918.89 per month

I also get a pension of £9.50 per month

They are all taxed at source and paid into my UK bank account and I transfer circa 100,000 baht per month into my Thai bank account. Does anyone have any idea what my Thai tax liability might be or should I find the local RD office and leave it to them?

Thank you.

Joe

 

From my own (amateur) current understanding of the UK/Thai DTA:-

NHS pension is a 'Government Pension' and is assessable but not taxable by Thailand RD.

State Pension and 'other pension' are both assessable and taxable.

 

You can therefore remit all of your NHS pension free of Thai income tax.

The other two amount to about £466 pm = 20,255 ฿ pm = 243,000 ฿ pa based on 43.50 ฿/£.

You can claim allowances/deductions of (60+190+100) k฿ pa plus 150 k฿ zero-rated for total allowances/deductions of 500 k฿. Details of these appear all over these threads so you've probably seen them.

Your assessable and taxable pensions are below 500 k฿ in total so your Thai income tax liability is ZERO. 

There are additional allowances/deductions for non-working spouse, health insurance, children and others but, since your tax liability is ZERO, these shouldn't concern you.

[Shoeless Joe]

16 minutes ago, MartinL said:

 

From my own (amateur) current understanding of the UK/Thai DTA:-

NHS pension is a 'Government Pension' and is assessable but not taxable by Thailand RD.

State Pension and 'other pension' are both assessable and taxable.

 

You can therefore remit all of your NHS pension free of Thai income tax.

The other two amount to about £466 pm = 20,255 ฿ pm = 243,000 ฿ pa based on 43.50 ฿/£.

You can claim allowances/deductions of (60+190+100) k฿ pa plus 150 k฿ zero-rated for total allowances/deductions of 500 k฿. Details of these appear all over these threads so you've probably seen them.

Your assessable and taxable pensions are below 500 k฿ in total so your Thai income tax liability is ZERO. 

There are additional allowances/deductions for non-working spouse, health insurance, children and others but, since your tax liability is ZERO, these shouldn't concern you.

Thank you for your reply which is very helpful and much appreciated.

Joe

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

Others mileage may vary but I don't want to live my retirement years in a foreign country, looking over my shoulder and/or waiting for the hammer to fall.

 

I don't think it's that binary and I don't think there's any hammer waiting to fall on small time farang pensioners.

 

Roughly speaking there are 3 categories of expat retirees' attitude to filing returns.

 

1.Those who are (or who like to think they are) in advance of the crowd and have been filing tax returns for sometime - albeit sometimes quite unnecessarily given the circumstances.They are often relatively new to Thailand and don't fully understand its nuances (eg tax clearance on departure which is still on the books, just not implemented, the many examples of eager beaver farang wanting TINs who have been turned away by RD etc etc)

 

2.Those who are carefully monitoring the position but expect to submit a return for the 2024 tax year and thereafter.Chief concerns are to comply with Thai requirements and legally minimize tax paid

 

3.Those who will bury their heads in the sand.

[Enzian]

I've read all 200+ pages, and all things considered, I'd rather be in Philadelphia.

[The Cyclist]

4 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

In which case, somebody needs to post a link that confirms that and if they do, I will view it as fact also. But until then, it's only opinion.

 

Or we could wait until the Thai Gov / RD spell out the details.

 

Which would save you time and effort typing out draft copies, which might well be shot down in flames when the the Thai Gov /RD get round to publishing something concrete.

 

Because until then, everything, including your bandwidth sapping draft  copies ( why would you even do such a thing ) is nothing but opinion.

[sirineou]

5 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Or we could wait until the Thai Gov / RD spell out the details.

Wait for what, if I understand this correctly these policies are affective Jan 1 2024  , it is now Jan 7th 2024 

[UKresonant]

1 hour ago, Shoeless Joe said:

Thank you for your reply which is very helpful and much appreciated.

Joe

Info

NHS pension is only a Government pension, if it's paid via a local authority. ( I put a link in a reply a couple of pages ago, of the HMRC list) but that detail is buried quite deep.

 

[OzzBlizz]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

Wait for what, if I understand this correctly these policies are affective Jan 1 2024  , it is now Jan 7th 2024 

Which policies are you speaking of? The ones that were in place before, but ignored for many years until now? Which ones in particular?

[The Cyclist]

7 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Wait for what,

 

The same as the Tax consultancies are waiting on, the same as tax experts are waiting on, the same as most people on this and other threads are waiting on.

 

Clarity coming from the Thai Gov / RD.

 

7 minutes ago, sirineou said:

if I understand this correctly these policies are affective Jan 1 2024  , it is now Jan 7th 2024 

 

All the people named above will probably tell you that the new interpretation of the rules started on the 01 Jan 2024.

 

What none of them are sure of is what exactly the new interpretation covers.