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Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I


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16 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

As you seem to take great delight in examining  my posts, you should have seen the that my Government  Pension, is a Forces Pension and that I am not old enough to claim the State Pension.

 

My Private pension could very well fall under the Thai tax system, which is why it will no longer be paid to Thailand after the 01 Jan.

 

I do not need you to post things for me to read. I asked to explain where my understanding of the UK / Thai DTA was wrong.

"Great delight in examining" your posts? Why else are your posts here if not to be examined?

 

Anyway, I posted that in a friendly manner as a piece of possibly interesting information of which you might not be aware. It was only AFTER posting that I thought I might not have all the details and looked at earlier posts - please forgive me if that's not acceptable in your book. I agree, I might have been a bit premature in offering information to a &*%# like you. It won't happen again.

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19 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

Sure and they could go back to the Vietnam  War.....I bet plenty of GIs in Thailand back then who were skipping out on paying tax.....Tax dogers they were and countless expat tax dogers......

Make them all pay up  with penalties and intrest...

 

Heck I bet 100 dollars owed then would be 200-300 hundred thousand by now....

I'm sorry to bother you with what I wrote, but do you think the new government can wait two years before collecting our taxes?

 

We are already all tax residents for the year 2023/2024

 

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2 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

There is another thread started today about changed procedures for the TM30s in the Pattaya Immigration Office.  May I suggest that some posters here need to go read that thread, and some of the others on the many difficulties Expats have regarding dealing with the Thai Imigration.  My point being - if anyone thinks dealing with the Thai Tax Office will be any better than the Thai Immigration, IMO you are very very mistaken. Knowing as much as possible how it works, and what is the correct way to do something (currently), and what documents are required, is extremely important when dealing with any Thai bureaucracy. Unlike Immigration, the Thai RD have zero obligation to 'teach or advise' Expats (or anyone) how to complete an annual tax return.

Jesus H....! You've never filed a tax return, never spent time with RD staff yet you've labelled them as worse than the Immi staff....are you even in Thailand?

 

It has always been the case in my experience, and in the experience of everyone else that I have spoken to about it, that RD is the easiest and best government department to work with. They volunteer information and fill out foreigners tax returns free of charge, and you get free coffee, a smile and never a queue! You should try visiting one of their offices, the next time you visit Thailand.

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31 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Jesus H....! You've never filed a tax return, never spent time with RD staff yet you've labelled them as worse than the Immi staff....are you even in Thailand?

 

It has always been the case in my experience, and in the experience of everyone else that I have spoken to about it, that RD is the easiest and best government department to work with. They volunteer information and fill out foreigners tax returns free of charge, and you get free coffee, a smile and never a queue! You should try visiting one of their offices, the next time you visit Thailand.

The part about the no queue might not last long

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1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I just cannot fathom Expats who think they can decide themselves what the tax office will decide is and is not taxable, and how DTAs can and will be applied by the RD.  I also think they dont realise that claim (I thought it was not taxable), is not a valid response when/if they are audited in the future.  

Well said.

 

44 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

RD is the easiest and best government department to work with. They volunteer information and fill out foreigners tax returns free of charge, and you get free coffee, a smile and never a queue!

I never got coffee!!! Not fair!

Otherwise you are right. 

Immigration, in my experience, is sometimes malicious. 

RD has always been helpful.

 

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41 minutes ago, SingAPorn said:

The new tax rules aimed on foreigners

There are no new tax rules, just broad policy directives which will eventually result in specific changes.

 

In any case they are not "aimed on foreigners." Although one would not realize from the multiple and often hysterical posts on this thread, they are aimed at Thais with foreign assets/investments.Foreigners who are 180+ residents may obviously be obliged to pay whatever additional tax is required but they are not the main target.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, jayboy said:

There are no new tax rules, just broad policy directives which will eventually result in specific changes.

 

In any case they are not "aimed on foreigners." Although one would not realize from the multiple and often hysterical posts on this thread, they are aimed at Thais with foreign assets/investments.Foreigners who are 180+ residents may obviously be obliged to pay whatever additional tax is required but they are not the main target.

 

 

Ok so it a just a form of speech that you are playing on and arguing. So be it. What next ? You will also use the usual argument and point out lexical or gramatical typo errors ?

 

But it does not change the fact that the concerned foreigners,  bringing in money from abroad will be subject to the hassles and tax.

Edited by SingAPorn
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2 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

It is also my sense that tax returns claiming tax credits under DTAs have been largely or even exclusively used by companies up until now, not by individuals. Thai companies have been liable to tax on their foreign source income for decades, regardless of whether they remit the income to Thailand.  However, there has not been any real for individuals to claim tax credits and there is no space to do so on the PND 91 form which you would think would have been added, if a large number of taxpayers were declaring foreign source income.  Anyone with enough foreign source income to make it worth paying a tax accountant to do the filing could afford to wait till the end of the tax year and remit the money tax free. Most people who needed the money before the end of the tax year are expat pensioners, whom the RD has not bothered up until now, probably assuming the incremental tax they could collect by harassing expat pensioners would not be worth the trouble. But all this seems likely to change.

There is a simple solution to the DTA bureaucratic nightmare:

1. Retirees need to show they paid their tax before they can get an extension. 

2. Require as much supporting documentation as possible for the DTA, long lists in Thai only with required notarized and authorized and legalized stuff.

 

Then most retirees have no choice, just pay up, because you would never get all these documents in time before the visa renewal. And the cost a DTA would cause you would be more than the tax, anyway.

RD  staff wouldn't have to learn how to handle DTAs.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, SingAPorn said:

Or the best solution is to relocate to another country and get rid of your property in Thailand. Far more simple and cheaper on the long run.

I meant a solution for the RD.

They certainly don't want to apply DTAs for hundreds of thousands of little pensioners. 

Too much work 

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11 minutes ago, Lorry said:

There is a simple solution to the DTA bureaucratic nightmare:

1. Retirees need to show they paid their tax before they can get an extension. 

2. Require as much supporting documentation as possible for the DTA, long lists in Thai only with required notarized and authorized and legalized stuff.

 

Then most retirees have no choice, just pay up, because you would never get all these documents in time before the visa renewal. And the cost a DTA would cause you would be more than the tax, anyway.

RD  staff wouldn't have to learn how to handle DTAs.

 

 

 

The good old tax clearance certificate. The US used to issue those to green card holders before they could leave the country, as you say, why not require them to be issued before visa's are extended.....it doesn't bear thinking about!

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1 hour ago, SingAPorn said:

People are desperately trying to sell their property. No foreigner is buying anymore. This will also make profit and the bread and butter for the opportunists  who will bid to purchase from the foreigner at ridiculously low prices.

This is ridiculous, it's looking like the tax will be less than just about every other country in the region that simply applies tax on worldwide income (I think Philippines is the exception). Thailand won't be any worse off than other countries in the region.

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2 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

legally

It would be  legal to bring it into Thailand

It would be illegal not to pay taxes on it.

 

Taxable is "income...brought into Thailand" (RD order 161/2566).

It doesn't matter how you bring it into Thailand,  as a bank remittance,  as cash or whatever. 

The amounts you are talking about are quite noticeable upcountry, you would make yourself vulnerable. 

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6 minutes ago, Lorry said:

It would be  legal to bring it into Thailand

It would be illegal not to pay taxes on it.

 

Taxable is "income...brought into Thailand" (RD order 161/2566).

It doesn't matter how you bring it into Thailand,  as a bank remittance,  as cash or whatever. 

The amounts you are talking about are quite noticeable upcountry, you would make yourself vulnerable. 

Who wants to check how much money I have in my pocket when I arrive by plane from abroad? The reporting obligation only begins at 20K US.

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5 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Who wants to check how much money I have in my pocket when I arrive by plane from abroad? The reporting obligation only begins at 20K US.

The way this is usually done, customs just asks you if you carry any cash.

You don't have to  declare it without being asked, but you obviously have to answer truthfully.

Then random checks,  and if found lying, the money is confiscated. 

 

The bigger problem is, as I said,  these are noticeable amounts. 

Maybe someone will ask where the money  (for the land you buy or whatever) comes from?

 

1000 USD cash into Bangkok,  no problem. 

20,000, repeatedly,  to somewhere upcountry? 

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On 10/12/2023 at 8:49 PM, topt said:

Please correct me if wrong but my understanding that the online process is in Thai only? I think even the paper record is Thai only (certainly was to reclaim tax withheld on bank interest).

 

If so how many foreigners will be able to circumnavigate the forms even with the help of a significant other...........

Why not hire a CPA? Not expensive...

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29 minutes ago, bugger bognor said:

Congratulations as I predicted this would reach 100 pages of guesswork and fear mongering, let me say it one more time 99,9% of all expats will not pay a penny of tax here , the clarification will come last minute Thai style as usual, some of the drivel spouted in here is comical and absurd the law HASTNT changed and a single statement of an official has you <deleted>ting yourselves especially are dopey USA citizens think about what you are saying for god sake, 

That's sort of my take on it. Mai pen rai

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37 minutes ago, bugger bognor said:

Congratulations as I predicted this would reach 100 pages of guesswork and fear mongering, let me say it one more time 99,9% of all expats will not pay a penny of tax here , the clarification will come last minute Thai style as usual, some of the drivel spouted in here is comical and absurd the law HASTNT changed and a single statement of an official has you <deleted>ting yourselves especially are dopey USA citizens think about what you are saying for god sake, 

O let all the hand wringers have their fun here.....lol

 

Trust me folks this tax insanity will fly about as good as those Thai blimps......Or work about as good as the GT200 drug detectors......Need I go on.....

Edited by redwood1
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1 hour ago, tomacht8 said:

Who wants to check how much money I have in my pocket when I arrive by plane from abroad? The reporting obligation only begins at 20K US.

But your departure country would not be happy if more than 9999 K US or Pound or Euro .....leaves undeclared

Edited by david555
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