Debris found in search for F-35 fighter jet that went missing after pilot ejected during 'mishap'

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

If it transmits it uses a radio frequency.

If it uses a frequency it can be tracked.

If it can be tracked, why would you fit it to an aircraft the has been designed to be stealthy?

Because when a military aircraft is flying around in normal (non-combat) conditions in a country with air traffic control systems, transponders are used to help facilitate the safe and efficient movement of air traffic throughout the country.

 

And even though military aircraft (including stealth aircraft) have transponders, they don't have to be switched on all the time. 

 

If the plane needs to be in stealth mode for operational, tactical or training reasons, the transponder can be switched off. As mentioned by a US avionics technician in a Quora answer, "Stealth aircraft have the ability to turn off Mode 1,2 3 and C transponders for obvious reasons. They also have the ability to disable IFF interrogation replies."

 

Do military planes turn off their transponder?

Edited September 20, 2023 by GroveHillWanderer

[billd766]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

True, but they don't need to be switched on until they encounter some criteria.  Like a 50G crash. There doesn't have to be 2 way communication or handshakes, or any other signal.  Just a GPS and a transmitter that says "I've experienced a crash and here's my location".  Once it's hit the ground, I don't think anyone cares about its stealthiness.

 

That's easy, even for first year electronics students.

 

 

Then what is the use for the device?

 

If it is so easy, even for first year electronics students, then why is there no sign of such a device? It would have immense use it the aviation industry. Just think how many would be needed for every medium and long range commercial aircraft would have to be fitted and retrofitted with one.

 

Every large military aircraft and helicopters would have to be fitted and retrofitted in every major countries armed forces. That in itself would be a major gain for the defence and avionics industries world wide.

 

I wonder why it hasn't been thought about or invented, even by first year electronics students yet?

 

Perhaps it has, and it is a highly kept top secret device and of course, as you say it will be as cheap as chips.

 

Have you any ideas?

[billd766]

1 minute ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Because when a military aircraft is flying around in normal (non-combat) conditions in a country with air traffic control systems, transponders are used to help facilitate the safe and efficient movement of air traffic throughout the country.

 

And even though military aircraft (including stealth aircraft) have transponders, they don't have to be switched on all the time. 

 

If the plane needs to be in stealth mode for operational, tactical or training reasons, the transponder can be switched off. As mentioned by a US avionics technician in a Quora answer, "Stealth aircraft have the ability to turn of Mode 1,2 3 and C transponders for obvious reasons. They also have the ability to disable IFF interrogation replies."

 

Do military planes turn off their transponder?

But if you turn the device off, what use is it then?

 

If it can disable IFF interrogation replies, then it has already shown up on a radar set somewhere.

[impulse]

20 minutes ago, billd766 said:

If it is so easy, even for first year electronics students, then why is there no sign of such a device? It would have immense use it the aviation industry. Just think how many would be needed for every medium and long range commercial aircraft would have to be fitted and retrofitted with one.

 

Every large military aircraft and helicopters would have to be fitted and retrofitted in every major countries armed forces. That in itself would be a major gain for the defence and avionics industries world wide.

 

I wonder why it hasn't been thought about or invented, even by first year electronics students yet?

 

Perhaps it has, and it is a highly kept top secret device and of course, as you say it will be as cheap as chips.

 

Have you any ideas?

https://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emergency-406-beacons/

 

I have an EPIRB on my boat.  A lot of my bicycling and hiking friends have PLB they keep with them.  Others, just in case they're mugged.  I gave up flying Cessnas in the '90s when I moved to Wyoming and the winds and mountains exceeded my skillset.  Long before GPS was commercially available at a reasonable price.

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by impulse

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

But if you turn the device off, what use is it then?

 

If it can disable IFF interrogation replies, then it has already shown up on a radar set somewhere.

Your question seems to be backwards. The question is not what use is a transponder when it is switched off, it is what use is it when it is switched on, and the answer is that it's used for air traffic control safety and efficiency. It's the same reason why all commercial aircraft have transponders.

 

So for all normal situations, when flying around a peaceful country the transponder on a military plane will be on. When you don't want the plane to show up on air traffic control systems, or to return a reply to an IFF query (such as when the plane is flying a combat mission in enemy territory) the transponder and IFF systems would be switched off (probably before take-off).

[Liverpool Lou]

On 9/19/2023 at 12:33 PM, sirineou said:

There goes $100 million 

It'll be well insured.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 9/19/2023 at 12:47 PM, sirineou said:

So I google it and since the beginning of the F35 program, 10m0f them have crashed

"10m0f them have crashed".

10m?  Nah, don't think so.

[VocalNeal]

21 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

red once there was a method to detect

As the planet is swathed in microwave signals from cellphone towers you look for holes in the sky where there appears to be no signal.????

[Liverpool Lou]

On 9/19/2023 at 5:08 PM, MrJ2U said:

Still a much better deal than the Thai proposed purchase of Chinese Subs without engines. 

Who's proposing to purchase subs with no engines, then?

[GroveHillWanderer]

3 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"10m0f them have crashed".

10m?  Nah, don't think so.

10 of them have crashed - it's a typo.

[Liverpool Lou]

21 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

It's a typo - the actual figure of F-35’s that have crashed is 10.

Can't be.  If an expert AN poster posts "10m", it must be right.

[Liverpool Lou]

6 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

10 of them have crashed - it's a typo.

Obviously.

[sirineou]

14 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"10m0f them have crashed".

10m?  Nah, don't think so.

M is a typo , instead of the space bar I hit M which is right above it , a typo I often make. 

The real mistake in that reply that I noticed after I could edit. is that it should be Billion rather than trillion,

not sure where my mind was. . 

[billd766]

34 minutes ago, impulse said:

https://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emergency-406-beacons/

 

I have an EPIRB on my boat.  A lot of my bicycling and hiking friends have PLB they keep with them.  Others, just in case they're mugged.  I gave up flying Cessnas in the '90s when I moved to Wyoming and the winds and mountains exceeded my skillset.  Long before GPS was commercially available at a reasonable price.

 

Ib used to fly a glider in Singapore in the late 1960's and early 1970's but gave it up when I came back to the UK. I was never very good at it anyway.

[MrJ2U]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Who's proposing to purchase subs with no engines, then?

Only you could be so dense.

 

 

[BBJ]

As it not been blamed on a weather balloon yet!

Edited September 21, 2023 by BBJ

[Liverpool Lou]

15 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

16 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Who's proposing to purchase subs with no engines, then?

Only you could be so dense.

Really? 

I can't be anymore dense (to use your choice of word) than the poster who, literally, claimed that Thailand was considering buying subs without engines!   Now, who was that?  Oh, yes, it was you.

[MrJ2U]

41 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Really? 

Obviously.

 

Totally classless poster with an extremely bad attitude to add to your ineptitude.

 

There's a reason nobody likes you. 

[ozimoron]

Dumb as a rock Trump get's it wrong again. The plane apparently did not suffer engine failure. He also thought it was a Boeing.

 

"On numerous occasions I told the Air Force and Lockheed Martin that the F-35 Fighter Jet is, in effect, DEFECTIVE, because it only has one engine," he wrote. "They told me that the engine is so good and reliable that it will never break down."

 

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-jet-crash/

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/19/2023 at 5:24 PM, billd766 said:

My question is a simple one. Why would you put a tracking device on an aircraft which has been designed to be stealth?

There is a time to be stealthy, as in when on a combat mission. Far as I know the plane was NOT on a combat mission, ergo no reason not to track it.

 

More to the point, I wonder why the pilot ejected and left the plane on auto pilot, which might have resulted in civilian deaths if it crashed on a built up area? It obviously was not in immediate danger as it flew for some distance before crashing.

 

I would not like to be that pilot, given he lost a rather expensive piece of kit. Hopefully the black box will explain all.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is a time to be stealthy, as in when on a combat mission. Far as I know the plane was NOT on a combat mission, ergo no reason not to track it.

 

More to the point, I wonder why the pilot ejected and left the plane on auto pilot, which might have resulted in civilian deaths if it crashed on a built up area? It obviously was not in immediate danger as it flew for some distance before crashing.

 

I would not like to be that pilot, given he lost a rather expensive piece of kit. Hopefully the black box will explain all.

I have read that the pilot may have been punched out by the ejector seat auto mode. This is a feature of the marine version and is a documented problem during hover mode. I know the plane flew on for 100 km but it was apparently in hover mode.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/20/2023 at 9:54 PM, GroveHillWanderer said:

Because when a military aircraft is flying around in normal (non-combat) conditions in a country with air traffic control systems, transponders are used to help facilitate the safe and efficient movement of air traffic throughout the country.

 

And even though military aircraft (including stealth aircraft) have transponders, they don't have to be switched on all the time. 

 

If the plane needs to be in stealth mode for operational, tactical or training reasons, the transponder can be switched off. As mentioned by a US avionics technician in a Quora answer, "Stealth aircraft have the ability to turn off Mode 1,2 3 and C transponders for obvious reasons. They also have the ability to disable IFF interrogation replies."

 

Do military planes turn off their transponder?

If what you say is correct, why did the pilot not switch on the transponder before ejecting? The plane was not crashing then, so he should have had time to do so.

 

BTW, he landed in someone's back yard and called 911 for an ambulance. The call was leaked to media.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If what you say is correct, why did the pilot not switch on the transponder before ejecting? The plane was not crashing then, so he should have had time to do so.

 

BTW, he landed in someone's back yard and called 911 for an ambulance. The call was leaked to media.

I also read that the transponder may have been faulty. I know he landed in a backyard.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/20/2023 at 10:21 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

It'll be well insured.

I think military equipment is not insured. No insurance company would be daft enough to insure equipment liable to get blown up.

 

Of course the taxpayer "insures" the military.

[GroveHillWanderer]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If what you say is correct, why did the pilot not switch on the transponder before ejecting? The plane was not crashing then, so he should have had time to do so.

 

BTW, he landed in someone's back yard and called 911 for an ambulance. The call was leaked to media.

It's not clear why the pilot ejected, however a number of aviation analysts commenting in the articles I've read, have speculated that he probably didn't realise the plane was going to be able to continue flying for quite some time, because otherwise, he wouldn't have ejected when he did.

[richard_smith237]

How did it take them so long...  There was another plane right next to it taking the photo... 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

On 9/21/2023 at 5:36 AM, Liverpool Lou said:

On 9/20/2023 at 2:27 PM, MrJ2U said:

On 9/20/2023 at 1:25 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

Who's proposing to purchase subs with no engines, then?

Only you could be so dense.

Really? 

I can't be anymore dense (to use your choice of word) than the poster who, literally, claimed that Thailand was considering buying subs without engines!   Now, who was that?  Oh, yes, it was you.

erm... 

 

 

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 9/20/2023 at 5:25 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

Who's proposing to purchase subs with no engines, then?

The Thai Navy has committed to buying at least one such sub - and already paid more than half the asking price. As stated in the article linked to above by @richard_smith237:

 

Quote

The navy has already paid some seven billion baht in down payment for the 12.4 billion baht Chinese-built submarine for which the specific diesel engine will reportedly remain unavailable.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

It's not clear why the pilot ejected, however a number of aviation analysts commenting in the articles I've read, have speculated that he probably didn't realise the plane was going to be able to continue flying for quite some time, because otherwise, he wouldn't have ejected when he did.

He'd better have a provable very good reason for ejecting when he did. Otherwise it's going to take a very long time to pay for it out of unemployment benefit.