Opinion: Making me pay tax is fine but where does it go?

[Puccini]

3 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

There's no need to do anything at the moment.

Even if you are not paying tax in your home country, your income is still subject to your countries tax, and therefore depends on the tax treaty.

I am mostly living on savings as well, but my savings are mostly here already, so only the interest on it is taxable by Thailand.

Correct. Before jumping to conclusions, everybody should check the Double Taxation Agreement (DTA) between his country and Thailand. (I haven't looked at the DTA between Italy and Thailand yet, but this is not urgent as I am not currently a tax resident in Thailand)

[BE88]

14 minutes ago, Thaindrew said:

this is where it will get interesting / complicated as in many instances that 65000 is not coming in as visa applications are submitted via agents who "deposit" 800,000.

They will all become tax agents too????

[Puccini]

35 minutes ago, Puccini said:

...It is possible and probable that this old agreement of 1967 has been replaced by a newer agreement but I could not find any newer agreement.

On the website of Thailand's Revenue Department, I see that the DTA between Thailand and Germany of 1967 is still valid.

https://www.rd.go.th/english/2419.html

[bkk_mike]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Usual sloppy reporting, the official notice said "Tax Residents" i.e. anybody who spends 180+ days in Thailand in any one calendar/tax year. 

Between this and the UK freezing my pension if I don't spend most of the year there, I can definitely see me doing something like 5 months of "winter" in Thailand, 7 months of summer in the UK - once I retire...

[wwest5829]

5 hours ago, retarius said:

How did you manage to stop paying US taxes? I have not lived in the US since 2005 and always have had to pay up....and no I don't agree with spending my money on endless warmongering. 

I retired here from the USA in 2011. I have always filed as required but the vast majority of years my total annual income, Social Security and MRD retirement funds, and a few stock dividends is under the taxable amount.

[foreverlomsak]

1 hour ago, Thaindrew said:

this is where it will get interesting / complicated as in many instances that 65000 is not coming in as visa applications are submitted via agents who "deposit" 800,000.

Not complicated at all, if you have 800k in the bank however it gets there, Revenue Dept will not be interested as they are only looking at "new" money coming into the country. If your living off savings in country same.

[biervoormij]

2 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

There's no need to do anything at the moment.

Even if you are not paying tax in your home country, your income is still subject to your countries tax, and therefore depends on the tax treaty.

I am mostly living on savings as well, but my savings are mostly here already, so only the interest on it is taxable by Thailand.

Thanks for your reply as well as replies from other members.

 

I have brought a bit more of my savings into the country. I want to have enough money in the country to live on until I understand how the new tax is implemented. Once I am past my 2024 extension I have a year to decide if the new tax is something I can deal with or time to leave Thailand.

 

It all just seems unclear at this point and I don't have as much faith in a tax treaty as other people. I want to avoid being in the middle while people talk about the wording of a tax treaty.

[LukKrueng]

You want to know who might benefit from the new tax? Just remember who's government it is now. Who's actually in charge of things behind the scenes (for now, might be at the front sooner then we all expected....)

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, bkk_mike said:

Between this and the UK freezing my pension if I don't spend most of the year there, I can definitely see me doing something like 5 months of "winter" in Thailand, 7 months of summer in the UK - once I retire...

The problem there is that summer only lasts for 2 months in the UK ????

[flexomike]

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Stopped producing taxable income.

So you are not of the age to collect SS benefits?

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, flexomike said:

So you are not of the age to collect SS benefits?

69 come end of Dec, but my SS & pension is below the taxable income level.

 

Sold all RE a couple years before coming here/TH.  Wrote my last check to IRS in 2009, I think, (damn $70+k), after selling my last stock holding.

 

14 years, I think, and no more checks to IRS.

 

Out of rental, out of the market, move to TH, Oct 2000, stopped salaried job in March 2001, so don't generate any income.

Edited September 25, 2023 by KhunLA

[NVass]

So what happens to anyone buying a condo. Has the price just gone up by 20/30% or whatever, thats going to have a pretty big impact on the new condo market!

[Letseng]

9 hours ago, connda said:

Everyone who buys anything is taxed.  It's called VAT.

You most likely in your home country VAT is charged when you shop. You still pay income tax as well. 

[Hummin]

6 hours ago, Lacrimas said:

exactly, there's no need to burden us with additional tax considering we already help this nation a lot

I already paid my taxes through buying fine wine, cheese, fish, caviar, and other high quality imported goods. Christ sake, now they want more? 

[Geir Rasch]

10 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

In the Thai Enquirer story the mentions 35% tax, however the papers only ever quote the highest rate. Thai Personal Income Tax has a progressive rate table similar in style to the UK.

Starting from Total Income, you have various allowances and deductibles to produce the Taxable Amount.

The first 150,000 is exempt

150,000 to 300,000 is 5%

300,000 to 500,000 is 10%

500,000 to 750,000 is 15%

an so on until the final rate at 35% on incomes above 4,000,000 Baht see attached

Personal Income Tax | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

For somebody who is taking in exactly 65,000 each month for Immigration purposes, the annual tax bill, worst case no rebate for double taxation and no allowances & deductibles, would be 71,000 not the 273,000 implied by the Thai Enquirer story of 35% tax on all income.

The tax would not be 71.000, but 14.000. 
65K x 12 * 780K.

then you have a minimum deduction of 100K and a personal deduction of 60K. If you are retired and 65 years old or older, additional deduction is 190K.so your taxable amount will be: 780K - 100K - 60K - 190K = 430K.

The first 150 is extemt, so you must pay 5% of (430K-150K) =

280K x 0,05 = 14K.
With more deduction (insurance, wife etc) you can end up with zero tax.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Geir Rasch
Additional info

[Geir Rasch]

10 hours ago, Geir Rasch said:

The tax would not be 71.000, but 14.000. 
65K x 12 * 780K.

then you have a minimum deduction of 100K and a personal deduction of 60K. If you are retired and 65 years old or older, additional deduction is 190K.so your taxable amount will be: 780K - 100K - 60K - 190K = 430K.

The first 150 is extemt, so you must pay 5% of (430K-150K) =

280K x 0,05 = 14K.
With more deduction (insurance, wife etc) you can end up with zero tax.

I must correct myself:

0 - 150K = 0

150 - 300 = 150K x 5% = 7,5K

300 - 430 = 130K x 10% = 13K

Total tax = 20,5K

Edited September 26, 2023 by Geir Rasch

[foreverlomsak]

13 hours ago, Geir Rasch said:

The tax would not be 71.000, but 14.000. 
65K x 12 * 780K.

then you have a minimum deduction of 100K and a personal deduction of 60K. If you are retired and 65 years old or older, additional deduction is 190K.so your taxable amount will be: 780K - 100K - 60K - 190K = 430K.

The first 150 is extemt, so you must pay 5% of (430K-150K) =

280K x 0,05 = 14K.
With more deduction (insurance, wife etc) you can end up with zero tax.

Don't see any of that in the Thai Revenue Department documents on-line under "Personal Income Tax". Can you please provide a link to the relevant page/section. 

[jimgilly]

Even if you are exempt from paying taxes on retirement/pension funds, they may still require you to file out another gxxdxxmn form(s) each year.  It'll be just another way to track you and the assets you have.

 

Instead of making things easier for long-time expats they continue to find ways to do the opposite.  Face it - they don't like farangs - they only like the money you pump into their economy.  Time to head out and that's exactly what I plan to do as I think the best thing about Thailand will be leaving it.

[Geir Rasch]

4 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

Don't see any of that in the Thai Revenue Department documents on-line under "Personal Income Tax". Can you please provide a link to the relevant page/section. 

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-d

This is a good english page about tax in Thailand.

[foreverlomsak]

1 hour ago, Geir Rasch said:

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-d

This is a good english page about tax in Thailand.

Thai Revenue page is in English too, I've used the info in the past for tax returns and found it to be correct.

The link you provided is "Not Found"

[soalbundy]

On 9/25/2023 at 2:42 PM, Puccini said:

This is what the "AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE KINGDOM OF THAILAND AND THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF GERMANY FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES ON INCOME AND ON CAPITAL", completed on July 10, 1967, says:
 

Source: https://www.aseanbriefing.com/userfiles/resources-pdfs/Thailand/DTA/ASEAN_DTA_Thailand_Germany.pdf

 

It is possible and probable that this old agreement of 1967 has been replaced by a newer agreement but I could not find any newer agreement.

 

 

Whatever, as long as the tax office in both countries think it's ok for me not to pay tax I'm happy.