Calls for clarification of new Tax regime which appears to target expat foreign income sources

[Isaan sailor]

27 minutes ago, alanrchase said:

If the money is from capital gains and dividends theoretically you would pay Thai capital gains and dividend tax on it not income tax.

Currently 15% and 10% I believe. A tax form would have to be filled out at some stage declaring where the money came from, it would be fraudulent to state it was income if it came from CG or dividends.

That would depend on where those capital gains and dividends came from.  In the US, money in a Roth IRA came from after tax investments.  And money in a traditional IRA is tax deferred—Uncle Sam will assess the tax—not Thailand.  The long arm of the IRS reaches American expats.  If they tax us—they need to protect us from double taxation.

[DrMJA]

Well.... there are many beautiful neighboring accommodating countries welcoming expat's with no extra charge! ????         ????️       ????

[daveAustin]

16 minutes ago, Nabbiex said:

Out of curiosity,

if we, expats, may be taxed, then will we be entitled to receive any Thai benefits such as Thai state pension, Thai personal tax income, family benefits, disability allowance, and so forth?

No no no no and, uhh, no!

[alanrchase]

22 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

May be you are referring to Capital gains and dividends from SET listed companies.

I don't know much about Thai tax rates at this point, I hope you are right.

Nothing to do with the SET. Money from abroad is what is being targeted. If the money from abroad is from CG or dividends then it should be declared as coming from those sources and taxed accordingly. If the money is from an inheritance are Thailand going to ignore their own tax rules for inheritance money and tax it as income?

[daveAustin]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

The tax change which has already been defended by Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin

The rich so & so has only been in office 5 minutes and already hate him with a passion. Bring back Phrayut! ????

[Thailand J]

3 minutes ago, DrMJA said:

Well.... there are many beautiful neighboring accommodating countries welcoming expat's with no extra charge! ????         ????️       ????

Beautiful countries with no extra charge, no paved road, no traffic lights, no running water.

[ukrules]

20 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Inclined to say shhhh. They might just forget all about the idea if we don't keep banging on about it. 

Stranger things have happened...

[Tom H]

In addition, this New Order will bring about a significant change in the taxation principle of offshore-sourced income under section 41 of the Revenue Code, and this change may adversely affect individual taxpayers who have honestly relied on the current interpretation and practices of the Revenue Department. Therefore, it is questionable whether this change should 
be accomplished through the amendment of section 41 of the Revenue Code, which needs to go through the legislation process, rather than through the issuance of this New Order.

 

That means to me: It wont come in 2024.

[redwood1]

8 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

The rich so & so has only been in office 5 minutes and already hate him with a passion. Bring back Phrayut! ????

I agee plus Phrayut did not make us endure a silly ear to ear grin with each and every photo-op...

Edited September 26, 2023 by redwood1

[Tom H]

On 9/26/2023 at 6:40 AM, findlay13 said:

Calls for clarification of new Tax regime [Good luck with that]

In addition, this New Order will bring about a significant change in the taxation principle of offshore-sourced income under section 41 of the Revenue Code, and this change may adversely affect individual taxpayers who have honestly relied on the current interpretation and practices of the Revenue Department. Therefore, it is questionable whether this change should 
be accomplished through the amendment of section 41 of the Revenue Code, which needs to go through the legislation process, rather than through the issuance of this New Order.

 

Clarification means it wont come in 2024.

[ukrules]

2 minutes ago, Tom H said:

Therefore, it is questionable whether this change should 
be accomplished through the amendment of section 41 of the Revenue Code, which needs to go through the legislation process, rather than through the issuance of this New Order.

Exactly, they're attempting to override an act of parliament with a memo - surely that will ruffle more than a few feathers in the parliament?

 

It is even legal to do this?

[bob smith]

It won't happen.

 

Even if it does then good.

 

I'm sick of this place anyway. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by bob smith

[Spilornis]

1 hour ago, pluto_manibo said:

all the Thai people who work abroad, invest abroad and want to remit funds, trying to survive in this difficult economic climate are the main targets.

This is an excellent point. Not sure of numbers but I assume there are many Thais working in areas such as the UAE, international shipping and offshore mining that will be taxed for the first time.

Malaysia has foreshadowed a similar tax regime which would impact significantly on the many Malaysians working in Singapore.

One difficulty I foresee is compliance. In Malaysia at least very few people are required to pay income tax (wages too low) so there is an absence of habit of paying taxes.

[Thailand J]

23 minutes ago, alanrchase said:

Nothing to do with the SET. Money from abroad is what is being targeted. If the money from abroad is from CG or dividends then it should be declared as coming from those sources and taxed accordingly. If the money is from an inheritance are Thailand going to ignore their own tax rules for inheritance money and tax it as income?

https://www.taxesforexpats.com/country-guides/thailand/us-tax-preparation-in-thailand.html

[Thailand J]

5 minutes ago, Spilornis said:

Malaysia has foreshadowed a similar tax regime which would impact significantly on the many Malaysians working in Singapore.

Malaysia has postponed the implementation of tax on residents on their foreign incomes for 5 years, a possible option Thai may adopt.

[ThaiFelix]

2 hours ago, charmonman said:

It would be great to hear an announcement from a Thai government that doesn’t require later ‘clarification’.

You have no understanding of Thailands approach to decision making.  Usually research is performed on a subject, data is collected, decisions made on the data and an announcement made.  However in Thailand the opposite is true.  Here a brain fart decision and announcement is made first, followed by public outcry which is researched and finally the decision reversed.  This approach is also useful for the government to gauge just how much it can get away with without affecting front row at the trough.

 

A good example a few years ago was the announcement, just as people were climbing into the back of their pickups for the annual run home to Isaan for Songkran, that it was now illegal to tavel in the back of pick-ups.  Obviously, to everybody else, this without notice decision puts a huge spanner in the works for millions of people as all other forms of transport are talken, booked, unavailable etc.  Fortunately one good soul lifting his head from the trough for air, somehow heard the outcry, and possibly concerned the turmoil may affect his revenue stream somewhere, reversed the law just in the nick of time and they all lived happily ever after (well,  sort of).

Edited September 26, 2023 by ThaiFelix

[Tom H]

1 hour ago, BE88 said:

Definitely leaving Thailand is my option as a classified Thai rich taxpayer, all my remittances will no longer enter Thailand from next month and consequently my bank accounts in Thailand will go to zero.

or you transfer 10M Baht in 2023 to avoid tax for the next 10y?

 

????Ony for the rich (non tax payers) of course

[tomazbodner]

1 hour ago, Thailand J said:

For US retirees, the tax treaty exempts SS and pension incomes but it does not  help with capital gain (CG) and dividend incomes.

 

Based on my limited knowledge I made a table below, I am sure it's full of mistakes and it is over simplified, but the idea is that if you have CG and dividends from US and if Thai gov decided to tax them, you can only deduct taxes paid in US.

 

I am going to get insurance and apply for 10 yr LTR if I have to pay income tax  here. I have met other requirements.

That's one part of it. The other part of it is how do you prove tax gain amount when it's not a single purchase and selling... example:

You buy 100 of stock x at say 100$ on day 1 year 1, paying 10,000$

You buy 100 of stock x at say 150$ on day 1 year 2, paying 15,000$

You buy 200 of stock x at say 200$ on day 1 year 3, paying 40,000$

So basically right now you have 400 stocks with median price of 162.5$.

But now, the stock price is 150$ and you sell it. Technically, you're losing 12.5$ per one, but say you only sell 100 of them. You get 15,000$ for them. Against which in the list is capital gain calculated? Average price? Purchase price of which one? It would be 5k capital gain against first lot, 0 gain on second lot, and significant loss on the third lot.

I haven't got this clarified anywhere. In fact one of the posters here was claiming that I would get taxed on the whole amount... So in this case, if I sold 100 stocks at 15k$, I'd get taxed (let's assume it comes into 30% bracket), 5k$ in tax in Thailand, which would wipe out entire gain on first lot. That can't be right.

 

Is there anyone here who knows how capital gain is established in such cases, willing to share?

[Geir Rasch]

1 hour ago, Dogmatix said:

Under most tax treaties TH has a right to tax pensions other than government service pensions and US social security, Even the UK state pension is not protected. TH can demand the tax and tell you you claim a refund of tax paid to your home country. The UK’s HMRC has s very complicated form for this. 

In the Thai-Norwegian tax agreement Thailand can tax any pensions transfered to Thailand the same year. It does not differ on different kind of pensions. The same amount will be deducted from Norwegian taxable pension.

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Thailand J said:

For US retirees, the tax treaty exempts SS and pension incomes but it does not  help with capital gain (CG) and dividend incomes.

 

Based on my limited knowledge I made a table below, I am sure it's full of mistakes and it is over simplified, but the idea is that if you have CG and dividends from US and if Thai gov decided to tax them, you can only deduct taxes paid in US.

 

I am going to get insurance and apply for 10 yr LTR if I have to pay income tax  here. I have met other requirements.

    I'm confused as to how Thailand would, (a.)  know what my capital gains/dividend income for the year was and, (b.) know that any of that income was sent to Thailand.   I get income from a USA state pension, social security, and capital gains/dividend money.  When I send, say, $3,000 to Thailand, how is Thailand going to know if that $3,000 is from already taxed pension/social security or from dividends/capital gains?  It all goes into my USA bank account and I wouldn't even know myself if this or that dollar was a dividend dollar or a pension dollar.  

[shackleton]

I will wait to see what they are actually proposing  rather than second guess

What ever happens I will be still be residing in Thailand ???????? 

To late in life to move else where 

 

[redwood1]

• So Starbucks, Mcdonald's , Honda, and 7-11 will all be paying Thailand Tax on their worldwide income.....Sure they will...lol......Sure they will not....

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, Nabbiex said:

Out of curiosity,

if we, expats, may be taxed, then will we be entitled to receive any Thai benefits such as Thai state pension, Thai personal tax income, family benefits, disability allowance, and so forth?

Nope, T.I.T.

[paddypower]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

As a foreign resident, I don't have to lodge a tax return in my old country, so good luck getting anything out of me ????

 

If ever queried, well, it's savings, see, look at my banks account, not bank accounts ????

 

assuming you receive some type of government benefits from it, in which country do you not have to file a NR tax return?

[Thailand J]

20 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Is there anyone here who knows how capital gain is established in such cases, willing to share?

You have capital gain only if you sell any of those stocks. Make a table of what you sold and report the bottom line. Do not list any stocks you have not sell.

Add all the costs, add all the proceed, the difference is your gain or loss.

Example:

Edited September 26, 2023 by Thailand J

[redwood1]

1 hour ago, Nabbiex said:

Out of curiosity,

if we, expats, may be taxed, then will we be entitled to receive any Thai benefits such as Thai state pension, Thai personal tax income, family benefits, disability allowance, and so forth?

They might give you a bar of soap......And the soap will not be on a rope......lol

[RichardColeman]

Surely the logic of this nuts idea would be that ALL foreign ATM charges are now going to have to include thai income tax at X%, since it is basically the transfer of money from abroad and would need taxing at the same rate as bank transfers - TAT will shoot this down before any opposition does

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, RichardColeman said:

Surely the logic of this nuts idea would be that ALL foreign ATM charges are now going to have to include thai income tax at X%, since it is basically the transfer of money from abroad and would need taxing at the same rate as bank transfers - TAT will shoot this down before any opposition does

But that would catch all tourists too (as you suggest)... they have been very clear tourists will not be taxed. 

[Tom H]

5 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Surely the logic of this nuts idea would be that ALL foreign ATM charges are now going to have to include thai income tax at X%, since it is basically the transfer of money from abroad and would need taxing at the same rate as bank transfers - TAT will shoot this down before any opposition does

Just pay with a credit card from a Thai bank account abroad. You even can get money from ATM in T. linked to a Thai account abroad:). 

Or just let the money fly in.

or, or, or.

I wont tell you all online????

[stix40]

How about a permanent channel opened on aseannow for future debating ! Amongst users.