New public health minister walks back ‘recreational’ cannabis

[bamnutsak]

9 hours ago, Bangel72 said:

There are different ailment lists out currently

Pfft.

 

These are just made up by individual shops, or the retail conglomerates (OG Canna Company/Panthera Group). These are not official. Wonderland (Suk Soi 5) has a "medical pop-up", staffed by a white-coat, I noticed Irritable Bowel Syndrome was a listed ailment.

 

Currently Cannabis treatment is only approved for a few diagnoses. You must visit a government hospital, with a DTAM clinic for treatment.

 

Three groups of medical conditions are included in the list of indications for medical cannabis treatment by the Ministry of Public Health (MoPH), namely (A) conditions with strong evidence of benefits from medical cannabis, i.e., chemotherapy-induced nausea and vomiting, intractable epilepsy, spasticity in patients with multiple sclerosis and neuropathic pain, (B) conditions with some evidence of benefits, i.e., patients in palliative care, patients with end-stage cancer, Parkinson disease, Alzheimer disease, generalized anxiety disorder and other demyelinating diseases, and (C) conditions which may be benefited from treatment with cannabis should there be more evidence in the future, e.g., cancers of some organs. Additionally, 16 regimens of the Thai traditional medicine were approved (Ministry of Public Health, 2020).

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8759353/#:~:text=Three groups of medical conditions,intractable epilepsy%2C spasticity in patients

 

Obviously cannabis flower cannot be smoked by most of these patients, Pediatric Epilepsy for example.

 

For medical cannabis to work, and not just be a minor hurdle for recreational use, Doctors will have to be trained, pharmacists will have to be trained, cannabis will have to be produced with exacting standards, tested, approved. A few specific growers will have to be approved. There must be seed to sale tracking. 

 

 

Look, if the end result is a faux medical cannabis program, like we went through in the U.S., then fine. Maybe that will satisfy the critics by providing more controls. 95% of that will end up as recreational use anyway.

 

Now it's time to put a stop to recreational tobacco use, and recreational alcohol use.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[spidermike007]

12 hours ago, Gknrd said:

Many moons ago I would go enjoy Pai... The locals , tribes people there would sell you opium, weed. Then the RTP would come in and extort you. I used to see cops with the locals that sold the opium. They would wait with them until the transaction was made then radio down the road to the police. 

Business as usual.

If in Thailand just don't do drugs IMO.

Yes, and this is likely the primary reason why it will be re-criminalized. Lobbying from the RTP. Vast amounts of lost income. I know people who were nicked for 100,000 baht on Koh Phangan for possessing a few joints. The police must have been very unhappy when they did this. It was an enormous boost to their franchises.

[jonclark]

On 9/27/2023 at 4:03 PM, Hummin said:

Weed should be controlled for strenght and contamination. Surten strains and potency is more likely to give people who are disposed for mental issues psyckoses as one reason. 

Could the same not be

 

On 9/27/2023 at 5:20 PM, JBChiangRai said:

You can't say pot harms nobody, it harms some people predisposed towards mental illness.  It harms developing brains.

 

I don't think they need to close shops, shopkeepers can do that themselves if they can't make a profit in an amended market where recreational use is forbidden.

 

 

 

Why should the government pay up?  Anutin said recreational use was forbidden, so the weed shops build their whole business model with an incredible threat hanging over them, they made a risky decision and it looks like it won't pay off.  No sensible businessman would have opened a weed shop with Anutin's warning, it should have stopped at the SWOT analysis in the business planning stage.

 

But yes I agree, the government is responsible for creating the debacle but the weed shops and growers are accountable for the risk they knowingly took.

I think the government needs to pay up because many of the 'weed shops' are legally registered with the government agencies as weed shops.  If the government has certified your shop as a tax-paying legal business, and then the government and its agencies are partially complict in allowing you to legally and knowingly work as a registered business, they need to pay you compensation as they would to any other tax-paying legal business that was forced to close down due to enhanced legislation.  I think the risk is irrelevent to this aruguement. 

[jonclark]

If weed become for medicinal use only....can i get my health insurance to pay for it?? And drive up Premiums for everyone... that the next question. 

[kimamey]

On 9/27/2023 at 3:40 PM, sidneybear said:

The big dope lobby always tells us it's harmless though. 

Something can be addictive and harmless. 

 

Whether cannabis for recreational use is harmful, I don't know. There seem to be conflicting statements about it. A lot seems to depend on the amount and how young you start. I think there's more danger to a person who is still in the early stages of brain development and of course the likelihood that they will consume more over time. I don't use it so I have to read to find out. The professional research is contradictory, as I've said. The articles I've read, mainly from users naturally is conclusively positive, however a lot of it that I've seen suggests it has a negative effect, in that it appears to make reading and understanding a bit difficult.

 

Stopping cannabis use when it was illegal in any form was probably only going to be partially successful. Although recreational use may still be illegal I suspect many users will just hear what they want to hear and think it's legal. Now there's been confusion over that it will be even more difficult. A situation not helped by the fact it will be the police who have to enforce the rules and their confusion regarding the difference between, fines to stop people doing something illegal, and payment to allow them to carry on doing it.

[Bangel72]

3 hours ago, bamnutsak said:

Pfft.

 

These are just made up by individual shops, or the retail conglomerates (OG Canna Company/Panthera Group). These are not official. Wonderland (Suk Soi 5) has a "medical pop-up", staffed by a white-coat, I noticed Irritable Bowel Syndrome was a listed ailment.

 

Currently Cannabis treatment is only approved for a few diagnoses. You must visit a government hospital, with a DTAM clinic for treatment.

 

Three groups of medical conditions are included in the list of indications for medical cannabis treatment by the Ministry of Public Health (MoPH), namely (A) conditions with strong evidence of benefits from medical cannabis, i.e., chemotherapy-induced nausea and vomiting, intractable epilepsy, spasticity in patients with multiple sclerosis and neuropathic pain, (B) conditions with some evidence of benefits, i.e., patients in palliative care, patients with end-stage cancer, Parkinson disease, Alzheimer disease, generalized anxiety disorder and other demyelinating diseases, and (C) conditions which may be benefited from treatment with cannabis should there be more evidence in the future, e.g., cancers of some organs. Additionally, 16 regimens of the Thai traditional medicine were approved (Ministry of Public Health, 2020).

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8759353/#:~:text=Three groups of medical conditions,intractable epilepsy%2C spasticity in patients

 

Obviously cannabis flower cannot be smoked by most of these patients, Pediatric Epilepsy for example.

 

For medical cannabis to work, and not just be a minor hurdle for recreational use, Doctors will have to be trained, pharmacists will have to be trained, cannabis will have to be produced with exacting standards, tested, approved. A few specific growers will have to be approved. There must be seed to sale tracking. 

 

 

Look, if the end result is a faux medical cannabis program, like we went through in the U.S., then fine. Maybe that will satisfy the critics by providing more controls. 95% of that will end up as recreational use anyway.

 

Now it's time to put a stop to recreational tobacco use, and recreational alcohol use.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Surely stopping sugar, coffee and fatty food would be of higher priority if health was the real argument.

[bamnutsak]

33 minutes ago, kimamey said:

Although recreational use may still be illegal

It is not, here in Thailand currently.

 

No clue why this remains misunderstood.

 

I mean this topic you're commenting on is about "walking back recreational use of cannabis".

 

 

[herfiehandbag]

On 9/27/2023 at 5:20 PM, JBChiangRai said:

You can't say pot harms nobody, it harms some people predisposed towards mental illness.  It harms developing brains.

I would agree, based on a particularly unpleasant personal experience I have narrated elsewhere. That said I really don't care what they do. As a tourist draw frankly I think it's potential is wildly exaggerated.

 

On 9/27/2023 at 5:20 PM, JBChiangRai said:

don't think they need to close shops, shopkeepers can do that themselves if they can't make a profit in an amended market where recreational use is forbidden.

Here in the Metropolis of the Frozen North we have a very small area of foreigner orientated bars. Last year three Cannabis sellers opened on the patch, all using almost identical decor ( I think that they were a franchise). Two have closed already, the third is next to a restaurant in which my daughter works as a waitress. She tells me it is always empty.

[redwood1]

7 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

I would agree, based on a particularly unpleasant personal experience I have narrated elsewhere. That said I really don't care what they do. As a tourist draw frankly I think it's potential is wildly exaggerated.

 

Here in the Metropolis of the Frozen North we have a very small area of foreigner orientated bars. Last year three Cannabis sellers opened on the patch, all using almost identical decor ( I think that they were a franchise). Two have closed already, the third is next to a restaurant in which my daughter works as a waitress. She tells me it is always empty.

I think in reality weed is very popular with teens and 20 somthings but as people get older most lose interest.....Except for a small but very vocal group of adult supporters...

[kwilco]

The problem with the cannabis debate in this country and others is that people seem to from opinions from a position of gross ignorance. So most of the debate is muddied by completely incorrect premises.

Edited September 29, 2023 by kwilco

[kwilco]

On 9/27/2023 at 11:20 AM, JBChiangRai said:

You can't say pot harms nobody, it harms some people predisposed towards mental illness.  It harms developing brains.

 

A classic mis-argument - you can say this about every substance on the planet  from smack to baked beans. 

THe problems form drugs are not for th most part from the drug it self, it is from the criminal activities involved in supplying the drug, from smuggling to addulterating to fighting over r :turf" etc etc.

 

If it comes to drugs causing health problems or antisocial behaviour than alcohol is probably number one

[redwood1]

2 minutes ago, kwilco said:

A classic mis-argument - you can say this about every substance on the planet  from smack to baked beans. 

THe problems form drugs are not for th most part from the drug it self, it is from the criminal activities involved in supplying the drug, from smuggling to addulterating to fighting over r :turf" etc etc.

 

If it comes to drugs causing health problems or antisocial behaviour than alcohol is probably number one

I agree for the most part...

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, redwood1 said:

I think in reality weed is very popular with teens and 20 somthings but as people get older most lose interest.....Except for a small but very vocal group of adult supporters...

You simply can't sat that without some serious statistical evidence. You needd to address demographics and of course which country are you talking about.

Edited September 29, 2023 by kwilco

[JBChiangRai]

51 minutes ago, kwilco said:

A classic mis-argument - you can say this about every substance on the planet  from smack to baked beans. 

THe problems form drugs are not for th most part from the drug it self, it is from the criminal activities involved in supplying the drug, from smuggling to addulterating to fighting over r :turf" etc etc.

 

If it comes to drugs causing health problems or antisocial behaviour than alcohol is probably number one

I'm not convinced you could put baked beans in the same risk category. Yes smack, probably alcohol, but we can't deflect and say because of alcohol it's ok for cannabis.

 

For sure alcohol is number 1 for anti-social behaviour.

 

 

 

[kwilco]

11 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I'm not convinced you could put baked beans in the same risk category. Yes smack, probably alcohol, but we can't deflect and say because of alcohol it's ok for cannabis.

 

For sure alcohol is number 1 for anti-social behaviour.

 

 

 

you see that's precisely it - people are incapable of taking a dispassionate look at recreational drug taking - if you inject baked beans intravenously ...well try it and see.

[sidneybear]

On 9/29/2023 at 2:25 PM, kimamey said:

Whether cannabis for recreational use is harmful, I don't know.

Well there's emphysema...

 

https://www.rsna.org/news/2022/november/emphysema-in-marijuana-smokers

 

Then there's schizophrenia...

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2424288/

 

But apart from that, you don't know whether it's harmful.... hard to believe. 

[jonclark]

48 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

Well there's emphysema...

 

https://www.rsna.org/news/2022/november/emphysema-in-marijuana-smokers

 

Then there's schizophrenia...

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2424288/

 

But apart from that, you don't know whether it's harmful.... hard to believe. 

Did the Marijuana smoker cohort only smoke Marijuana or Marijuana and tobacco? The article does not say. The article refers to the cohorts as "marijuana smokers" and "tobacco-only" Did the marijuana smokers use tobacco in joints for example. If they did it could actually mean that tobacco could be the causal factor. Important point that needs clearly expressing in the article but seems to be missing. 

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, sidneybear said:

Well there's emphysema...

 

https://www.rsna.org/news/2022/november/emphysema-in-marijuana-smokers

 

Then there's schizophrenia...

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2424288/

 

But apart from that, you don't know whether it's harmful.... hard to believe. 

If adults want to make an informed decision to use cannabis recreationally, then I think as long as government puts the appropriate rules & framework in place, we should allow it.

 

We have to prevent those vulnerable members of society who are most at risk to it's negative effects, gaining access to the drug.

 

I tend to agree with UK Law Enforcement, surrender your driving licence if you want to use Cannabis recreationally. 

[bamnutsak]

1 hour ago, sidneybear said:

Well there's emphysema...

 

Yes, I think Emphysema (COPD) is a major health issue here, obviously unrelated to cannabis use.

 

Hopefully the Minister of Public Health will put an end to Recreational Use of Tobacco. Oh, and figure out a way to stop the annual burning season.

 

 

1 hour ago, sidneybear said:

Then there's schizophrenia...

Also a problem here, and unrelated to Cannabis use.

 

I'm sure the Minister of Public Health will be rolling out treatments for those affected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[expatocean]

On 9/29/2023 at 4:29 PM, redwood1 said:

I think in reality weed is very popular with teens and 20 somthings but as people get older most lose interest.....Except for a small but very vocal group of adult supporters...

Ridiculous absolutely pathetic statement .

[sidneybear]

1 hour ago, bamnutsak said:

 

Yes, I think Emphysema (COPD) is a major health issue here, obviously unrelated to cannabis use.

 

Hopefully the Minister of Public Health will put an end to Recreational Use of Tobacco. Oh, and figure out a way to stop the annual burning season.

 

 

Also a problem here, and unrelated to Cannabis use.

 

I'm sure the Minister of Public Health will be rolling out treatments for those affected.

 

Mental illness including schizophrenia is indeed related to cannabis use. And smoking can cause emphysema. To say otherwise is lying. Look it up in places like this, written by people who (unlike you) actually know what they're talking about 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/marijuana/health-effects/mental-health.html

 

Oh, and to say that we're all going to develop emphysema because of the burning season is equally daft: lung damage is cumulative, and nobody forces people like us to live in Thailand. 

 

Oh, and you'll call it a freedom of choice thing, which it is until its effects enter the family sphere, destroying lives, particularly when smoked by the young. Then you'll go bleating for help.

Edited October 1, 2023 by sidneybear

[JBChiangRai]

Hear failure, strokes and heart attacks, 60% more likely in heavy cannabis users.

 

Adults Who Overuse Cannabis Are 60 Percent More Likely to Suffer From Serious Heart Conditions, Study Reveals (msn.com)

[sidneybear]

On 9/29/2023 at 11:07 AM, bamnutsak said:

Pfft.

 

These are just made up by individual shops, or the retail conglomerates (OG Canna Company/Panthera Group). These are not official. Wonderland (Suk Soi 5) has a "medical pop-up", staffed by a white-coat, I noticed Irritable Bowel Syndrome was a listed ailment.

 

Currently Cannabis treatment is only approved for a few diagnoses. You must visit a government hospital, with a DTAM clinic for treatment.

 

Three groups of medical conditions are included in the list of indications for medical cannabis treatment by the Ministry of Public Health (MoPH), namely (A) conditions with strong evidence of benefits from medical cannabis, i.e., chemotherapy-induced nausea and vomiting, intractable epilepsy, spasticity in patients with multiple sclerosis and neuropathic pain, (B) conditions with some evidence of benefits, i.e., patients in palliative care, patients with end-stage cancer, Parkinson disease, Alzheimer disease, generalized anxiety disorder and other demyelinating diseases, and (C) conditions which may be benefited from treatment with cannabis should there be more evidence in the future, e.g., cancers of some organs. Additionally, 16 regimens of the Thai traditional medicine were approved (Ministry of Public Health, 2020).

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8759353/#:~:text=Three groups of medical conditions,intractable epilepsy%2C spasticity in patients

 

Obviously cannabis flower cannot be smoked by most of these patients, Pediatric Epilepsy for example.

 

For medical cannabis to work, and not just be a minor hurdle for recreational use, Doctors will have to be trained, pharmacists will have to be trained, cannabis will have to be produced with exacting standards, tested, approved. A few specific growers will have to be approved. There must be seed to sale tracking. 

 

 

Look, if the end result is a faux medical cannabis program, like we went through in the U.S., then fine. Maybe that will satisfy the critics by providing more controls. 95% of that will end up as recreational use anyway.

 

Now it's time to put a stop to recreational tobacco use, and recreational alcohol use.

Listen to this individual pretending to be a doctor 

[sidneybear]

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Hear failure, strokes and heart attacks, 60% more likely in heavy cannabis users.

 

Adults Who Overuse Cannabis Are 60 Percent More Likely to Suffer From Serious Heart Conditions, Study Reveals (msn.com)

It's obvious that smoking pot is akin to smoking cigarettes, except there's no filter and pot smokers inhale very deeply. All those combustion products damage the heart and lungs, just like cigarettes do.

 

Denying the connection is a lie.

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by sidneybear

[Karma80]

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I tend to agree with UK Law Enforcement, surrender your driving licence if you want to use Cannabis recreationally. 

I've seen enough people here in Phuket riding bikes after smoking a joint and a few actually just smoking and riding to agree with this. The cops in Chalong at the circle should just drugs test for a week. I imagine the traffic situation would instantly get better.

[bamnutsak]

46 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

Mental illness including schizophrenia is indeed related to cannabis use. And smoking can cause emphysema.

I was talking about Thailand. I mean that's what we're discussing, right?

 

The hundreds of thousands of people here (in Thailand) with Emphysema did not contract it from smoking cannabis.

 

And the tens of thousands of people here (in Thailand) suffering from schizophrenia did not get this condition from smoking Cannabis.

 

 

[sidneybear]

27 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

I was talking about Thailand. I mean that's what we're discussing, right?

 

The hundreds of thousands of people here (in Thailand) with Emphysema did not contract it from smoking cannabis.

 

And the tens of thousands of people here (in Thailand) suffering from schizophrenia did not get this condition from smoking Cannabis.

 

 

But, Dr. Bamnutsak, Your primary source of medical knowledge seems to be the Thai Ministry of Health. Now why on earth would those folks be trying to have us believe that toking on tarry reefers has medicinal properties? Could there possibly be a money trail here? Do you work for them, doctor? You seem to believe that crop burning means that we've all got nothing to lose from smoking joints all day.

[sidneybear]

32 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

I was talking about Thailand. I mean that's what we're discussing, right?

Oh, so Thais are somehow immune to ill health caused by smoking weed. Do you also believe that diseases respect national boundaries?

 

What a strange case it is, the one that you're attempting to make here.

[bamnutsak]

1 hour ago, sidneybear said:

It's obvious that smoking pot is akin to smoking cigarettes, except there's no filter and pot smokers inhale very deeply. All those combustion products damage the heart and lungs, just like cigarettes do.

 

It is possible to consume Cannabis without combustion...

 

Dry Herb Vaporizer

Extracted Oil

Water Soluble Powder

 

 

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

Hear failure, strokes and heart attacks, 60% more likely in heavy cannabis users.

 

Adults Who Overuse Cannabis Are 60 Percent More Likely to Suffer From Serious Heart Conditions, Study Reveals (msn.com)

If Cannabis is so bad why do you support Medical Cannabis? I think you've said you do previously, but maybe I'm mistaken.

 

 

 

 

 

[sidneybear]

43 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

I was talking about Thailand. I mean that's what we're discussing, right?

 

The hundreds of thousands of people here (in Thailand) with Emphysema did not contract it from smoking cannabis.

 

And the tens of thousands of people here (in Thailand) suffering from schizophrenia did not get this condition from smoking Cannabis.

And how on earth would you know that, doctor? Did you yourself conduct a clinical trial? Please do publish your findings as academic literature, for peer review and publication.