What does the Trump fraud conviction mean for the man and his business?

[spidermike007]

A judge ruled Tuesday that Donald Trump committed fraud for years while building the real estate empire that catapulted him to fame and the White House, and he ordered some of the former president’s companies removed from his control and dissolved. Judge Arthur Engoron, ruling in a civil lawsuit brought by New York Attorney General Letitia James, found that Trump and his company deceived banks, insurers and others by massively overvaluing his assets and exaggerating his net worth on paperwork used in making deals and securing loans. Engoron ordered that some of Trump’s business licenses be rescinded as punishment, making it difficult or impossible for them to do business in New York, and said he would continue to have an independent monitor oversee Trump Organization operations.

 

This appears to be a conviction on only the 1st of 7 different charges, in New York. What does this mean for Trump? Will he be forced to sell all of his New York properties? From what I have read, some legal experts seem to think that this means his LLC will have to be dissolved, which means he can no longer do business in New York. And I believe this only relates to bank fraud, not tax fraud, which appears to be a huge, looming hazard to him, at this point, and may be far easier to prove with this conviction. What does this conviction mean for the upcoming election, and his candidacy?

 

 

[Gottfrid]

Means he hopefully will face jail

[Lacessit]

Trump will continue to cast himself as the victim, and his gullible supporters will be blind to the truth.

It's possible his only source of income will be donations from them, as I would be betting the $250 million in penalties Fani Willis seeks is the low-ball figure.

After all the time he spent on his golf courses during his Presidency, it would be ironic if she seizes them first.

[FritsSikkink]

Banks recalling loans and seize property.

Becoming an uninsurable person.

Tax fraud law cases.

 

[Trippy]

Question

If I get a loan to buy a house, they don't take my word as to it's value, there's always an independent appraiser to value the property before approving the loan.

 

Was there no independent appraiser counting Trump's assets? Hard to believe a bank would just take your word for it no matter who you are.

What am I missing?

 

And NO I'm not a Trump supporter. 

 

[spidermike007]

20 hours ago, Trippy said:

Question

If I get a loan to buy a house, they don't take my word as to it's value, there's always an independent appraiser to value the property before approving the loan.

 

Was there no independent appraiser counting Trump's assets? Hard to believe a bank would just take your word for it no matter who you are.

What am I missing?

 

And NO I'm not a Trump supporter. 

 

That is a very good question. We all know how much corruption goes on within the banking industry. And during certain periods the requirements were far more lax than during others. But, in the case of crisis riddled Deutsche Bank, it appears to be an extreme case of bad bankers catering to a very, very bad client.

 

The New York Times reported that anti-money-laundering specialists at Deutsche Bank internally flagged multiple transactions by Trump companies as suspicious. The German bank loaned a cumulative total of around $2.5 billion to Trump projects over the past two decades, and the bank continued writing him nine-figure checks even after he defaulted on a $640 million obligation and sued the bank, blaming it for his failure to pay back the debt.

 

https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-inc-podcast-deutsche-bank-donald-trump

 

 

 

[placeholder]

On 9/28/2023 at 1:34 PM, Trippy said:

Question

If I get a loan to buy a house, they don't take my word as to it's value, there's always an independent appraiser to value the property before approving the loan.

 

Was there no independent appraiser counting Trump's assets? Hard to believe a bank would just take your word for it no matter who you are.

What am I missing?

 

And NO I'm not a Trump supporter. 

 

You may or may not be a Trump supporter, but your  posts elsewhere tell us where you stand politically. Let's just say it's extremely unlikely that you're a Democrat.

[Walker88]

On 9/28/2023 at 6:34 AM, Trippy said:

Question

If I get a loan to buy a house, they don't take my word as to it's value, there's always an independent appraiser to value the property before approving the loan.

 

Was there no independent appraiser counting Trump's assets? Hard to believe a bank would just take your word for it no matter who you are.

What am I missing?

 

And NO I'm not a Trump supporter. 

 

Assuming you are honest in your questioning, I'll attempt to explain:

 

First, perhaps you remember 2008. The world financial system almost collapsed (Obama saved it, but that is a long story that might require more knowledge of finance and economics than you seem to have) because banks do not always do proper analysis nor appraisal. That should stand as an example of what banks do and don't do.

 

There are several reasons for this. One is time...there isn't enough time to do all the checking one might expects banks to do. Another is that appraisal firms often do what their regular client wants. trump would have been a regular client of some appraisal firms to which he pays a fee. If the firm doesn't do what he wants, he will take his business to one who will. This is exactly how the rating firms operate, too, such as S&P or Moodys. Another reason is that bank employees are incentivized by dealmaking. Some employees with overlook obvious fraud because they will be bonused for writing a deal that might not go belly up until they have been paid and possibly moved to another firm. trump, being unscrupulous, would know this and take advantage of it. His entire business was based on taking advantage of others, such as he knew he could stiff contractors who lacked the financial means to chase him down in long court trials.

 

 

[Walker88]

trump's performance (f)art and political rallying in court is quite funny....though his goobers being naive and easily fooled might buy it.

 

He and his sons love to talk about 'brand', claiming just his trump brand is worth billions of dollars. Funny that trump steaks, trump water, trump university, trump airline, trump travel agency, and his many bankrupt trump casinos, plus a long list of other trump businesses failed. His 'brand' did nothing for them. It might attract his goobers, but since most of them are unsuccessful, they could not afford to pay the inflated prices he hoped to get in his various business ventures. The folks who could afford to buy were not smitten with the conman's brand, so did not buy.

 

trump also likes to include his many 'outstanding properties and their incredible value'. He can blow smoke when his properties are US based, because as a private company he is not required to issue public statements of income. In many of his international properties, however---such as his British Isles golf courses---he is required to issue financial statements. All of those properties are losing money, so the value is likely not anything close to what trump likes to claim. That also says more about his

'brand'. His brand doesn't travel well out of Gooberville. (Personally, I think his business ought to go after the market demographic of his goobers, which is cheap discount products and services like Motel 6s or non-natural fiber garments sold in low end stores.)

 

In court on 6 Nov trump tried to address his absurd claim that his 10,000 sf apartment is actually 33,000 sf. trump actually said that 'perhaps the estimate included common spaces and elevators. That would have to be some massive elevators! Also, some of what he called 'common spaces' turn out to be apartments owned by other people. Oh, and his claim the building is 58 floors seems to have added 10 floors that do not exist. Maybe in another Universe, a place where trump's endless lies are truth, those 10 floors exist, but they do not exist in this Universe.

[Lacessit]

Judge Engoron has already stated Trump is not a credible witness, the polite way of saying he is a liar.

I expect Trump will either take the Fifth, or follow in the footsteps of his sons, saying not my fault.

[Trippy]

4 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Assuming you are honest in your questioning, I'll attempt to explain:

 

First, perhaps you remember 2008. The world financial system almost collapsed (Obama saved it, but that is a long story that might require more knowledge of finance and economics than you seem to have) because banks do not always do proper analysis nor appraisal. That should stand as an example of what banks do and don't do.

 

There are several reasons for this. One is time...there isn't enough time to do all the checking one might expects banks to do. Another is that appraisal firms often do what their regular client wants. trump would have been a regular client of some appraisal firms to which he pays a fee. If the firm doesn't do what he wants, he will take his business to one who will. This is exactly how the rating firms operate, too, such as S&P or Moodys. Another reason is that bank employees are incentivized by dealmaking. Some employees with overlook obvious fraud because they will be bonused for writing a deal that might not go belly up until they have been paid and possibly moved to another firm. trump, being unscrupulous, would know this and take advantage of it. His entire business was based on taking advantage of others, such as he knew he could stiff contractors who lacked the financial means to chase him down in long court trials.

 

 

Appreciate the explanation, the snarky arrogant attitude, not so much.