ISRAEL IS AT WAR !

[Morch]

2 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

When Israel 'handed back' Gaza, it was the PLO (Arafat) that ran the place.  Hamas took over in 2006 and after Arafat died, they have enforced a strict hold over the people in Gaza. Since then they have been indictrinating everyone to hate Israel and Jews, and to become a part of their 'army'.   It is like the Nazis in Germany - the German people had no chance to remove them once they locked down their power and control.  Anyone speaking out against Hamas has been klilled.  Under Cover Of Conflict, Hamas Killed Palestinians, Amnesty Alleges : Parallels : NPR

 

Golda Meir’s observation remains as true today as when she said it more than half a century ago: “Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.”

 

 

Israel did not 'hand back' the Gaza Strip. The disengagement was a unilateral move. There was very little coordination on offer.

 

As per timeline: Israel pulled out in September 2005, while the Palestinians elections campaign was just heating up - ending with Hamas's victory four months later (January 2006). Arafat, by the way, died in November 2004, so did not run anything by then. The Hamas takeover of Gaza occurred on June 2007.

[Morch]

13 minutes ago, proton said:

The war Hamas launched was because they are convinced Israel occupies other peoples land the mythical arab/muslim state of Palestine, even though jews have been there for over 3000 years. Why is nobody pointing out all the Christian countries muslims occupied, or is there a time limit, how about the Turks invasion of Cyprus and occupying Christian land?

 

Because the topic is about Israel, Hamas,, and the Gaza Strip. It's not about other countries, ancient history and so on.

And again, not sure why you've directed this at me to begin with.

[Bkk Brian]

27 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

What you refer to is Hamas's military wing. But Hamas is also a political party, and the government/bureaucracy managing daily life in the Gaza Strip, plus a network of social oriented projects (schools, mosques, welfare and so on). So in this sense, many more Gazans are 'Hamas' - and while  initial Israeli comments were general references, this quickly changed to specify the military wing + notables on the political wing.

Yes you're right, I forgot about al the Hamas government employees, just read up on it a little. There are around 40,000 public sector workers paid directly by Hamas, although not sure how that's working out now in the war.

[BarraMarra]

36 minutes ago, proton said:

The war Hamas launched was because they are convinced Israel occupies other peoples land the mythical arab/muslim state of Palestine, even though jews have been there for over 3000 years. Why is nobody pointing out all the Christian countries muslims occupied, or is there a time limit, how about the Turks invasion of Cyprus and occupying Christian land?

Come on Proton its about the War now in 2023 Feck all to do with what happened 3000 years ago.

[Yagoda]

6 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Islamaphobia is not the fear of terrorism!

It  refers to a prejudice or discrimination against Islam or Muslims. It encompasses various attitudes, beliefs, actions, or policies that are hostile, negative, or prejudiced against the religion of Islam or its followers. This can range from individual acts of discrimination or hate speech to systemic biases and policies that unfairly target Muslims.

So is it Islamaphobic to point out the complicity of the Mullahs in terrorism and their Koranic justifications for same? Thats for other casual readers, not intended to debate with your lot.

[transam]

Just now, Yagoda said:

So is it Islamaphobic to point out the complicity of the Mullahs in terrorism and their Koranic justifications for same? Thats for other casual readers, not intended to debate with your lot.

What lot..........?  🤔

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

So is it Islamaphobic to point out the complicity of the Mullahs in terrorism and their Koranic justifications for same? Thats for other casual readers, not intended to debate with your lot.

My lot?

 

[norfolkandchance]

52 minutes ago, proton said:

The war Hamas launched was because they are convinced Israel occupies other peoples land the mythical arab/muslim state of Palestine, even though jews have been there for over 3000 years. Why is nobody pointing out all the Christian countries muslims occupied, or is there a time limit, how about the Turks invasion of Cyprus and occupying Christian land?

Again off topic. I was on duty at RAF Akotiri the night the Turks invaded. Back on Topic.

[Nick Carter icp]

6 hours ago, Thorgal said:

 

For advanced :

 

The third item has (also) been confirmed by the French lawyer Mr. Gilles Devers in the YT clip.

He explained that art. 6 is applicable under at least 3 sub conditions : see in bold previous post.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1308598-israel-is-at-war/?do=findComment&comment=18471687

 

Genocide is mostly described and understood in the fact of killing a population (the physical aspect) : as explained in TV debates, newspapers, social media,...

 

ICC extends the legal term "genocide" also as : demolishing urban living places, churches, mosques, schools, shops, etc...

But also blocking any access to food, medical supplies, fuel, free transportation, etc...

Depopulation, by forcing people to move to South Gaza.

 

That's why I was against the bombing, depopulation and blockade since the beginning of the conflict. With a lot of bad jacketing to me as result...

 

   It has already been stated by an International Lawyer , an International Lawyer that advises Countries on the legalities of war , that Israel are legally allowed to engage in a war with Hamas and as Hamas are the enemy , Israel can cut off supplies to feed them and cut off energy supplies 

1.     Lets no forget that it was just a few short weeks ago that you were celebrating Hamas attacking Israel's power station and Hamas restricted Israel's power supply 

 

1 So Hamas attacks Israel's power station (which supplies Gaza with power)

2 There is now no power into Gaza (partly because of the Hamas attack on the power station)

3 Hamas complain about Israel war crimes for not supplying them with power 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, norfolkandchance said:

Again off topic. I was on duty at RAF Akotiri the night the Turks invaded. Back on Topic.

 

  Why didn't you stop them ? 

[coolcarer]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

I believe in rehabilitation and forgiveness. Really, he is good at recent interviews and seems unbiased.

 

This is one I just watched and would vote for this guy to be president - 

A one hour and 20 min video just to see why a Scott/Thai would vote for Vivek as a US president. No thanks man. Did you know Ramaswamy said it’s ok for antisemitic protests on college campuses?

[norfolkandchance]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Why didn't you stop them ? 

We where on the Turks side.

[Neeranam]

10 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Did you know Ramaswamy said it’s ok for antisemitic protests on college campuses?

No, I didn't, can you prove that?.  I know he believes in free speech. 

[Thorgal]

3 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Are you an experienced military strategist , who has studied the art of war and who have had a career in the military and do you have access to the info that Israeli Generals have in regards to the Palestinians  capabilities and Israel's capabilities .

   Or are you one of these guys that knows everything about everything and is always telling others what they should be doing (about every subject) ?

 

I do listen for instance to an ancient French Brigade General to know what he thinks and to listen to his advice as an ancient NATO general and foreign legion commander with many combat experience. I didn't promote myself as a "strategist" just by repeating his words...

You would be right if I didn't name him...with his quote...

 

Palestinian low budget DIY flip-flop militants made some 15 holes in thick concrete and made unfortunately many pogroms on a rave party and Kibbutzim in the region without being intercepted. You don't need to be a strategist to understand who applied Sun Tzu ?

 

[coolcarer]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

No, I didn't, can you prove that?.  I know he believes in free speech. 

You do now

 

He also said he was against clamping down on protests on college campuses — even ones viewed as antisemitic. 
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/vivek-ramaswamy-tailors-message-israel-fit-audience-rcna122912

 

don’t forget to vote for him

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, Thorgal said:

 

I do listen for instance to an ancient French Brigade General to know what he thinks and to listen to his advice as an ancient NATO general and foreign legion commander with many combat experience. I didn't promote myself as a "strategist" just by repeating his words...

You would be right if I didn't name him...with his quote...

 

Palestinian low budget DIY flip-flop militants made some 15 holes in thick concrete and made unfortunately many pogroms on a rave party and Kibbutzim in the region without being intercepted. You don't need to be a strategist to understand who applied Sun Tzu ?

 

I thought you might...............

 

And why didn't you just say massacre.....?

When are you going to sign up for the Hamas massacre brigade, I think they need replacements, fast...........😖

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

 

 

@TroubleandGrumpy

 

I think you have some reading comprehensions and anger issues, on top of being uninformed:

 

Qatar brokers deal between Egypt, Hamas and Israel for limited Gaza evacuations - source

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/qatar-brokers-deal-between-egypt-hamas-and-israel-for-limited-gaza-evacuations-source/ar-AA1jc1th

 

How the tiny Arab state of Qatar became indispensable in talks with Hamas

http://How the tiny Arab state of Qatar became indispensable in talks with Hamas

 

Scoop: Mossad chief visits Qatar for talks on hostages held by Hamas in Gaza

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/scoop-mossad-chief-visits-qatar-for-talks-on-hostages-held-by-hamas-in-gaza/ar-AA1j6pNK

 

Past, present Mossad leadership makes secret trip to Qatar

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/past-present-mossad-leadership-makes-secret-trip-to-qatar/ar-AA1j8utX

 

I stopped reading after "reading comprehensions and anger issue, on top of being uninformed".

I am happy to have a debate - but I will not accept 'argument' from anyone that imnplies 'you are an idiot because you dont agree with me'.

Lets just agree to disagree.  I support what Israel is doing - You do not.

[Morch]

50 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes you're right, I forgot about al the Hamas government employees, just read up on it a little. There are around 40,000 public sector workers paid directly by Hamas, although not sure how that's working out now in the war.

 

A lot of the money Qatar transferred to the Gaza Strip in recent years (with Netanyahu's blessings), was for paying these salaries.

 

[Thorgal]

23 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   It has already been stated by an International Lawyer , an International Lawyer that advises Countries on the legalities of war , that Israel are legally allowed to engage in a war with Hamas and as Hamas are the enemy , Israel can cut off supplies to feed them and cut off energy supplies 

1.     Lets no forget that it was just a few short weeks ago that you were celebrating Hamas attacking Israel's power station and Hamas restricted Israel's power supply 

 

1 So Hamas attacks Israel's power station (which supplies Gaza with power)

2 There is now no power into Gaza (partly because of the Hamas attack on the power station)

3 Hamas complain about Israel war crimes for not supplying them with power 

 

 

Please check up earlier posts about ICC and Israel.

 

Some people here declared that Israel didn't commit any war crimes, genocide and/or ethnic cleansing (depopulation).

 

OK, fine for me. Even UN senior officials declared the opposite about Israel's' war crimes, genocide and/or ethnic cleansing (depopulation).

[simple1]

20 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   It has already been stated by an International Lawyer , an International Lawyer that advises Countries on the legalities of war , that Israel are legally allowed to engage in a war with Hamas and as Hamas are the enemy , Israel can cut off supplies to feed them and cut off energy supplies 

1.     Lets no forget that it was just a few short weeks ago that you were celebrating Hamas attacking Israel's power station and Hamas restricted Israel's power supply 

 

1 So Hamas attacks Israel's power station (which supplies Gaza with power)

2 There is now no power into Gaza (partly because of the Hamas attack on the power station)

3 Hamas complain about Israel war crimes for not supplying them with power 

 

 

When did Hamas attack the power station in Israel providing power for Gaza? Power is running out on local infrastructure within Gaza due to insufficient fuel because of the Israeli blockade. Israel has promised fuel supply for hospitals, but I guess would be extremely difficult to monitor so may not occur. Unsure if Egypt would step up.

 

Clarity on the legal issues concerning War Crimes is provided below:

 

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/hamas-israel-war-crimes/

 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Please check up earlier posts about ICC and Israel.

 

Some people here declared that Israel didn't commit any war crimes, genocide and/or ethnic cleansing (depopulation).

 

OK, fine for me. Even UN senior officials declared the opposite about Israel's' war crimes, genocide and/or ethnic cleansing (depopulation).

 

 Really have to laugh, Hamas supporters pointing fingers at others and accusing them of war crimes , whilst Hamas is currenty committing war crimes (by holding hostages).

   "Looks its them , not us " 🙂 

Hamas committed numerous  war crimes , Israel is engaging in a war with those war criminals 

You can lie all you like, but you cannot change the facts and reality .

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 hour ago, proton said:

The war Hamas launched was because they are convinced Israel occupies other peoples land the mythical arab/muslim state of Palestine, even though jews have been there for over 3000 years. Why is nobody pointing out all the Christian countries muslims occupied, or is there a time limit, how about the Turks invasion of Cyprus and occupying Christian land?

Indeed - they call that 'selective appropriation' (or cognitive dissonance).

Those that support Hamas and what they have been doing, or just condone their attacks as 'freedom fighters', want Palestine to be 'From the River to the Sea' - which means the removal of all Jews and the destruction of Israel.

I would suggest that they learn the history of Judea-Christian societies versus Islamic societies - they have been at it for thousands of years.

Not just there - they should take a look at the history of India and Pakistan - peaceful settlement has always failed. 

IMO what Israel is doing now is fully acceptable - destroying Hamas - just like 'The Crusades' when Islam and Muslims were driven out of Europe.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

5 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

 

So you are Morch's Mother?  Father??   Or are you a 'second' account ??

Careful if you are a second - they can check your IP and MAC - and ban you for life.

 

Now answering your rubbish.  If Israel stops to allow hostage negotaitions, Hamas will re-arm and in the future do this again.

Likewise, Hezbolla PIJ PLFP etc etc etc will all take heart and do similar things.

The destruction of Hamas and much of Gaza will stop other terrorists follwing in Hamas' footprints.

 

 

Firstly, the insecurity you display in your first paragraph, by suggesting that if more than one person voices an opinion contrary to your own, that they must be in cahoots, is something I cannot help you with.

 

Secondly, I did not say that Israel stops to allow hostage negotiations, so please only reply to something I have said, rather than pretending that I said something that fits the narrative that you want to reply to.

 

I am unashamedly pro-Israel in this conflict, and I loathe and despise Hamas, Hezbollah, and every other terrorist organisation with my every fibre; they epitomise one of mankind’s most appalling traits, cowardice.

 

That notwithstanding, if by some third party negotiation, the lives of the many hostages, of many different nationalities can be saved, then I support it. I trust the Israeli government and the IDF to make the best, but inevitably never perfect decisions, to continue their aim to eradicate Hamas while still doing everything in their power to secure the safety of the hostages; something your destruction of Gaza policy seems to give little consideration to.     

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Israeli leaders seem to have a different point of view. Maybe take it up with them and explain what's what.

 

There are negotiations right now, or attempts at such, conducted via Qatar.

As you can notice, this does not entail Israel stopping its offensive.

 

There are several ideas floated about, one of them (mentioned earlier) is hostage release in return for free passage for Hamas leadership and men. Again, not my idea or any other poster's.

 

Given the hostage situation, things are complicated.

While I think most of us would prefer a heroic happy ending, sometimes it doesn't happen this way.

 

Lets just agree to disagree. I support what Israel is doing - You do not.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

When did Hamas attack the power station in Israel providing power for Gaza? Power is running out on local infrastructure within Gaza due to insufficient fuel because of the Israeli blockade. Israel has promised fuel supply for hospitals, but I guess would be extremely difficult to monitor so may not occur. Unsure if Egypt would step up.

 

Clarity on the legal issues concerning War Crimes is provided below:

 

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/hamas-israel-war-crimes/

 

 

 

   October 7 th 2023, give or take a day or two 

Our Hamas supporters  celebrated the victory , its on the first few pages of this thread if you want to have a look 

[Morch]

10 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I stopped reading after "reading comprehensions and anger issue, on top of being uninformed".

I am happy to have a debate - but I will not accept 'argument' from anyone that imnplies 'you are an idiot because you dont agree with me'.

Lets just agree to disagree.  I support what Israel is doing - You do not.

 

Maybe have look at your own previous posts, or even at this one, and try to figure out the context of my comment.

You are misrepresenting my views, you are also obviously not aware of all that Israel is doing.

[metisdead]

Another post with a video using foreign language and from an unapproved You Tube source has been removed, please see our Community Standards

 

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[Thorgal]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

I thought you might...............

 

And why didn't you just say massacre.....?

When are you going to sign up for the Hamas massacre brigade, I think they need replacements, fast...........😖

 

As per your binary (quantitative analysis) observation this would be called "a massacre", while people like me have more tendency to go for qualitative analysis based on more consistent constant factors and variables. Qualitative analysis can be produced with a minimum of intelligence and intellectual competency.

 

The combatant kill ratio statistics that I had in mind was based on previous conflicts/incursions  is more or less 1 (IDF) to 20 (Hamas). The experience and equipment of IDF is also contributing to higher Palestinian causalities, whatever the duration and intensity of the conflict.

 

I agree that "replacements" will be needed at Palestinian side, but the critical path of +/-40.000 Hamas soldiers has not yet been reached and I doubt if Hezbollah/Houthi/Iran Quds/... will do nothing to compensate this critical path in Gaza.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Lets just agree to disagree. I support what Israel is doing - You do not.

 

You are again misrepresenting my views.

You are again demonstrating a very limited intake of current news.

[Wobblybob]

Just now, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Lets just agree to disagree. I support what Israel is doing - You do not.

From what I've read from @Morch posts he is probably the most balanced poster on this subject and no way does he support Hamas, far from it, you are both pretty much singing from the same song sheet and one of you is just slightly out of tune.