Expats seeking a new life face challenges with stricter banking and taxation rules being pushed

[thaibeachlovers]

24 minutes ago, mania said:

That would be a tough one...I wonder how you prove it is savings?

 

I think it should be on the other foot...meaning they prove its not. If I say I'm retired & my income is SS & savings & they think otherwise then it is they who need to prove that

 

I mean how do I prove this money of savings? I can of course prove my SS is X amount a month with the US SS verification letter but savings? I have no idea

It's always on the peasants to do their work for them. I'm not a fan of the IRD.

[bamnutsak]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

so are they going to instruct banks to add tax to all foreign transfers and expect us to claim it back ?, they do not have the facilities to do that, it took me 6 months to claim tax back on bank interest I had earned here on a savings account

 

if they want to tax me then their revenue department can claim it from me if they have evidence my income in not taxed already. That is the usual way personal taxation works.

 

 

 

I do not think it is outside the realm of possibilities that..

 

Banks withhold some percentage (10%? 20%) of any/all funds remitted to accounts from off-shore and forwards that to the RD.

 

Immigration requires a document from the RD before any extensions are processed.

 

 

[kennw]

3 hours ago, SuperSaiyan said:

The same way (stupid) people say Covid (flu) crashed the economies - it did not, the reaction to it crashed it. Or now they (the stupid people) say its the Ukraine war responsible for Germany going into a massive recession or increasing massive inflation, no, it's not the war, the reaction to it. They want to establish the same narrative for climate change (hoax, no emergency) so that people think stuff magically happens because of climate change and not because of the changes the gov's are doing.

Money grab off the low hanging fruit and no impact on local votes - "rich farangs not us"

[BE88]

35 minutes ago, Expat68 said:

They can't go back to 2023, they can only tax interest on your bank account in 2024, which will be below the threshold 

Exactly and that's why we have time from January 1, 2024 up to the following 178 days to decide where to go for an extended holiday in another country, calculation to be made in accordance with the date of visa extension which could be different but always less than 180 days per year..

Perhaps by deciding to discover the inconveniences and advantages of other countries.

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by BE88

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

46 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps it comes down to proof. If you can prove the money comes from savings then not taxed in LOS. If can't prove it then taxed.

Most, if not all, savings must have originated as some kind of income, taxable or not (this will vary according to what situation/country you are in): Salary, interest, dividends, capital gains, etc. Or is it only a matter of time: Does income turn to savings after one or more year? Like how Thailand until now seem to have treated transfers from abroad?

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, FarAway said:

 

It does not matter if they enforce it immediately or not. From 2024, you are not able to generate tax-free offshore money anymore while having your tax residency in Thailand. 
Everyone with a high offshore-income will leave Thailand as his tax residency within the next months.

 

Well you can, its only the remittance to Thailand which creates the taxable event.. 

Start paying all bills via wise.. A direct payment from outside the country to the 3rd party is then thier taxable event, not yours.. House and car payments, GF or wifes housekeeping, etc etc.. Spend as much as possible with an overseas credit card.. Brings the total right down. 

[Celsius]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I've been saying for some time that it's only going to get worse, and not only in Thailand for farangs. Everything is getting worse, not better, IMO.

 

 

Government agendas and leading firms, including banks, are increasingly dominated by one world government bodies such as the United Nations and intergovernmental panels.

 

Fixed it for you.

 

I have been saying it too. Not to sound like some mega prophet, but any idiot could see it 

 

The next thing on the agenda will be a complete cutoff of any government payouts if you are not a resident for tax purposes in your country. 

 

 

[Tom H]

Change the bank and go to i.e. Wise. Done.

 

[Smokey and the Bandit]

3 hours ago, misterphil said:

Flip girls are far too cocky. No thanks. 

Would you care to elucidate?

[BE88]

42 minutes ago, JoePai said:

Seems the only conspiracy theorist here is you ????

However, it seems to me that the only one still here among the few asleep who hasn't woken up yet is you. ????

[jerrymahoney]

1 hour ago, newbee2022 said:

 Monaco  No personal income tax.^[6]

Monaco. Sounds nice. Maybe I can rent an apartment near my yacht.

[riclag]

4 hours ago, Bim Smith said:

I am a little lost on how. climate change has anything to do with having a bank account in your home country. As Thailand is preparing for a cashless society in addition to many countries forgive me if I am a little cynical over the whole global cabal dominated governance.

I seen that at the end of the article,the mention of Climate!

Me thinks its a money grab by the elite's as a result of their

Globalization reset!

[brianthainess]

3 hours ago, misterphil said:

Flip girls are far too cocky. No thanks. 

I prefer mine with no cocky 

[mikebell]

3 hours ago, FarAway said:

Now it will be sold and we can escape the coming Thaksin era.

Where will you go?  I am considering Laos.

[Lopburikid]

3 hours ago, Jonathan Swift said:

Wonder how they’ll pull this off without forcing banks to disclose all incoming int’l money transfers? I will have to ask my bank. Seems like it might be hard to universally enforce this.

From what the UK pensions office is saying..... You are quite safe having your state pension transferred into a Thai bank from the UK or their overseas banking agency. It is any other personal pensions such as Company, private, disability pensions that can be taxed at 25%. Thailand has the right to tax state pensions (which you can claim back) But as far as they know State pension are not on the agenda, as yet!

[jerrymahoney]

2 hours ago, Walker88 said:

I'm a "whatsoever". How about you?

 

Just stayed because of your wife, eh? Didn't come for the temples?

 

You were off to a good start with your mention of the ubiquitous bogeyman George Soros, and THE WORLD ELITE, but you had me hoping for chemtrails, Bilderbergers, Bohemian Grove and the rogue planet Nibiru.

 

Too late to edit?

... not to forget the Trilateral Commission.

 

 

[NorthernRyland]

4 hours ago, Bim Smith said:

I am a little lost on how. climate change has anything to do with having a bank account in your home country. 

Then you haven't been paying attention. The point is you're killing the planet so give us all your money and stop complaining about being poor.

[MeePeeMai]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

They need a more better definition of income - savings are NOT income. If I had worked all my life and had saved and had a million quid and paid UK full tax, I find it hard to believe that Thailand would be trying to tax it a 2nd time.

 

I agree but the problem might be in obtaining the "required documents proving that this money has already been taxed and at what percentage" requested by the RD.  You know how the Thai's love paperwork and always insist on lots of "official" documents from the banks etc. which have been Authenticated and signed by so and so and approved by so and so and officially translated by the Thai MFA etc..

 

A perfect example of how quickly this could go South is the whole Insurance debacle for O-A visa applicants with Health coverage in their home countries (not wanting to purchase additional health insurance from the short list of "approved" Thai insurance companies) .  Already have insurance which meets the criteria in your home country?  No problem, just fill out this form and have three senior Board Members from your insurance company sign and attest to it (which proved to be impossible), have it notarized and you're good to go.  Many tried and I don't think anyone succeeded getting said paperwork signed and approved.

 

They have their ways of squeezing folks into submission by requesting documents which are either extremely difficult to obtain (as requested) or prohibitively expensive (as in you must travel to your home country every year to get the required "proof" or paperwork in which case it might be easier and cheaper to just raise the white flag, surrender and pay the taxes regardless).  

 

I for example (a US citizen), will be leaving if they start taxing my international transfers and then tell me that I need to file a tax return and "request" a refund.... OR if they force me to file an annual tax return by March 31st (my US tax filing deadline isn't until Oct as US citizens living abroad get an automatic 6 month extension to file) and pay the Thai taxes since at that point I will not have the proof needed that the US taxes on my pension and other income has already been paid.

 

I am NOT forking over money for taxes in Thailand and then having to pray that I see a refund on that money 6 months to a year later.  I moved here to live a simple life in retirement and if they decide to complicate it more than it already is, then I have other (less complicated) options to choose from.

[Jiggo]

Looks like they maybe primary after the Russian Oligarch types while dragging others in as well.

Just a thought 

[brianthainess]

1 hour ago, newbee2022 said:

Thank you for the list. I wonder if I can have an accomodation in the Vatican? Probably I've to show special qualification?????

I was thinking Vatican too, I hear they have safe balconies.

But can get a bit overcrowded on public holidays.

Edited October 12, 2023 by brianthainess

[spidermike007]

4 hours ago, Jonathan Swift said:

Wonder how they’ll pull this off without forcing banks to disclose all incoming int’l money transfers? I will have to ask my bank. Seems like it might be hard to universally enforce this.

It will be impossible to enforce, and many of the current non taxpayers here will not be affected at all. 

[brianthainess]

27 minutes ago, Lopburikid said:

From what the UK pensions office is saying..... You are quite safe having your state pension transferred into a Thai bank from the UK or their overseas banking agency. It is any other personal pensions such as Company, private, disability pensions that can be taxed at 25%. Thailand has the right to tax state pensions (which you can claim back) But as far as they know State pension are not on the agenda, as yet!

The way I understand it, I paid tax on my earnings, and my national insurance was taken out of my Net earnings, so tax already paid. 

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, Tom H said:

Change the bank and go to i.e. Wise. Done.

 

Better to keep the bank - and also go to WISE.

[FritsSikkink]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand is moving toward greater tax compliance from the hundreds of thousands of expats living in the kingdom. At the same time, banking facilities at home are being challenged. They are likely to be more expensive as the world acclaims Environmental, Social and Governance values driven by the United Nations 2015 Sustainable Development Goals.

 

In Thailand, UK customers of Barclays Bank have been scrambling to make new arrangements before mid-November 2023. From January 1st, there will be the beginning of a new era for taxation in Thailand on income from foreign countries because of a change in a 38-year-old interpretation of the Thai Revenue Code. It also comes with unique difficulties for pensioners seeking to finalise pensions in the UK and other European countries while resident abroad. The changes impact American expats less, with the Social Security Administration paying benefits directly to Thai bank accounts. In contrast, the American income tax system is based on a global earnings principle. Nonetheless, all expats are impacted by corporate moves to pursue ESG-friendly policies to further the 2015 UN Sustainable Development Goals, including climate action.

Government agendas and leading firms, including banks, are increasingly dominated by environmental, social, and governance values pushed by bodies such as the United Nations and intergovernmental panels. The trend especially includes the financial industry. This growing impetus has begun to impact Western expats living in Thailand, challenging their lifestyle with the curtailment of trusted bank facilities in their home countries. There is also an increased push towards the global taxation principle targeting those who have sought a better lifestyle abroad and, in many cases, more personal freedom.

 

UK expats in Thailand are increasingly anxious about their financial arrangements. The situation has come about due to moves by leading UK banks to restrict services to overseas residents and a new push by the Revenue Department in Thailand to widen its tax base, targeting tax residents in the kingdom deriving income from abroad.

 

by Joseph O' Connor

 

Full story: Thai Examiner.com 2023-10-12

 

- Cigna offers a range of visa-compliant plans that meet the minimum requirement of medical treatment, including COVID-19, up to THB 3m. For more information on all expat health insurance plans click here.

 

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You live and work here, pay tax. If you don't like it move on, goodbye.

[zyphodb]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I can't see how this affects me. My pension is paid into an Australian financial institution. I transfer funds periodically to Thailand via WISE.

Unless the Thai government is going to start taxing ALL transfers from foreign countries into Thailand, which would be an administrative nightmare.

It won't be an admin. nightmare for the Thai government, They'll make the banks do it...

[JimTripper]

6 hours ago, SuperSaiyan said:

Philippines is the way to go. It's 20 years behind in time, like it or hate it. No taxes on world income, no visa hassles and by that I mean absolutely ZERO. More young marriage type girls available and they speak English and not just "I go boom boom".

 

But the food sucks.

[Expat68]

1 hour ago, BE88 said:

Exactly and that's why we have time from January 1, 2024 up to the following 178 days to decide where to go for an extended holiday in another country, calculation to be made in accordance with the date of visa extension which could be different but always less than 180 days per year..

Perhaps by deciding to discover the inconveniences and advantages of other countries.

 

Yes, I was also thinking on those lines

[hotandsticky]

9 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

The way I understand it, I paid tax on my earnings, and my national insurance was taken out of my Net earnings, so tax already paid. 

UK state pension is classed as taxable income.

[Celsius]

1 hour ago, Smokey and the Bandit said:

Would you care to elucidate?

 

It means Filipina outsmarted him every time because they speak better English. 

[JimTripper]

41 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

I agree but the problem might be in obtaining the "required documents proving that this money has already been taxed and at what percentage" requested by the RD.  You know how the Thai's love paperwork and always insist on lots of "official" documents from the banks etc. which have been Authenticated and signed by so and so and approved by so and so and officially translated by the Thai MFA etc..

 

A perfect example of how quickly this could go South is the whole Insurance debacle for O-A visa applicants with Health coverage in their home countries (not wanting to purchase additional health insurance from the short list of "approved" Thai insurance companies) .  Already have insurance which meets the criteria in your home country?  No problem, just fill out this form and have three senior Board Members from your insurance company sign and attest to it (which proved to be impossible), have it notarized and you're good to go.  Many tried and I don't think anyone succeeded getting said paperwork signed and approved.

 

They have their ways of squeezing folks into submission by requesting documents which are either extremely difficult to obtain (as requested) or prohibitively expensive (as in you must travel to your home country every year to get the required "proof" or paperwork in which case it might be easier and cheaper to just raise the white flag, surrender and pay the taxes regardless).  

 

I for example (a US citizen), will be leaving if they start taxing my international transfers and then tell me that I need to file a tax return and "request" a refund.... OR if they force me to file an annual tax return by March 31st (my US tax filing deadline isn't until Oct as US citizens living abroad get an automatic 6 month extension to file) and pay the Thai taxes since at that point I will not have the proof needed that the US taxes on my pension and other income has already been paid.

 

I am NOT forking over money for taxes in Thailand and then having to pray that I see a refund on that money 6 months to a year later.  I moved here to live a simple life in retirement and if they decide to complicate it more than it already is, then I have other (less complicated) options to choose from.

Somebody here gets it & has a brain, finally. ????