TM.30 reporting requirement change(?)

[mran66]

Saw news story in Pattaya Mail yesterday about Chonburi immigration having changed their policy of TM30 reporting. Few years ago when filing one, I was told that no need to report any more after I enter the country as I have  retirement Non-O visa and return to same address as I reported before (my home) and since then have had the same slip stapled to my passport without any issues with immigration ever since (have done several extensions also).  As I live not far from immigration, decided to ride there right a way to file a new TM30 (last entry to Thailand about a month ago), just to avoid any issues with my upcoming renewal. Filled the papers and went to the desk, explaining my history and asking if I indeed have to report now every time I enter the country. She told no need to do UNLESS you have 'something to do with immigration', whatever that means. Thus, the updates policy still seems to be muddy...Funnily  enough, just the day before I applied for residence certificate for DL, and the person in charge was completely happy with my several years old TM30 receipt (however she specifically asked for copy and actually gave back house book copy).

 

So go figure, anyway no fine, and should be set now for my extension in a months time.

[Hamus Yaigh]

15 minutes ago, mran66 said:

She told no need to do UNLESS you have 'something to do with immigration', whatever that means.

Which does beg the question, since you were asking her and didn't understand her reply why you didn't ask again?

 

FWIW the TM30 rules have not changed, like you said only need a new one when coming in country on a new visa or moving home permanently. That said the online version on TM30 submissions changed last month so anyone who used the old one needs to do it all again on the new one as the previous data has been wiped off for reasons best known to those with something to do with immigration.

[mran66]

11 minutes ago, Hamus Yaigh said:

Which does beg the question, since you were asking her and didn't understand her reply why you didn't ask again?

 

FWIW the TM30 rules have not changed, like you said only need a new one when coming in country on a new visa or moving home permanently. That said the online version on TM30 submissions changed last month so anyone who used the old one needs to do it all again on the new one as the previous data has been wiped off for reasons best known to those with something to do with immigration.

actually asked 'like for extensions and residence certificate?', answer was yes. Did not push for further explanations as thought would not have much meaning.

 

But as said, at least for residence certificate old one was ok on Wednesday. Seems need a bit time to see whether e.g extensions actually will get rejected, possibly with fine due to late tm30 reporting as per new rules, if no up to date TM.30 - or is this just the usual muddy policy implementation.

 

 

[Bvor]

5 minutes ago, mran66 said:

 

 

12 minutes ago, mran66 said:

FWIW the TM30 rules have not changed

pattaya mail article states "the change in procedure". ?????????? TIT again this time requiring more TM30 lodgements.

[zenobit]

“…..The change in procedure means that the requirement is now extended to any foreigner seeking a re-entry permit, a renewal of a one year extension of stay (including retirement and marriage visas), extension of Elite, certificates of residence for driving licences, opening bank accounts etc.

All these categories must now have a TM30 immigration receipt in their passport issued after their most recent entry to Thailand by air or land or sea. A TM30 receipt issued before the last entry to Thailand will be regarded as out-of-date and no longer acceptable..…”

 

I have been living with my Thai wife in their house in Pattaya for over 10 years. My passport only contains the “Departure Card” and the “90 Days Notification”. Haven't left the country since arriving. I don't have a so-called TM 30 certificate and have never had to deal with it.

 

Do I now have to obtain a TM 30 certificate for the first time before the next extension of my annual visa ... even though my wife owns the house and I don't have a rental agreement?  ????

 

To be honest, I'm a bit overwhelmed by the topic as I've never had to deal with it before.  ????

[ThirdRock]

Like Zenobit above, I am confused by new announcement.  I have been part-owner of a house for over 15 years, have lived in same house 13 years without leaving the country, have done all extensions and check-ins during that time, and have no TM-30 in my passport. 

 

The article said you need the TM-30 if you need service from Immigration.  I just did 90-day online yesterday and have not received approval or rejection yet.  But annual extension is just 4-5 months away, so I assume I will need the TM-30 by then. 

 

I am one of three owners of the house, but my name is not on house papers since I bought in after the fact.  For annual extensions I just provide a utility bill.  Have never had a need for further proof.

 

Any ideas on what I need to do?

 

It seems like this is standard procedure, like new tax plans -- make a big announcement but give no details!

 

[NE1]

38 minutes ago, zenobit said:

Do I now have to obtain a TM 30 certificate for the first time before the next extension of my annual visa ... even though my wife owns the house and I don't have a rental agreement? 

Who can say for definite .

My wife owns our house and I filled a TM 30 in every year since 2016 , presented it to our immi. officers (Not Pattaya) and every year it was returned " if you still live in the same house , no need "

Then a new regime stepped in and a couple of years ago they tried to fine me for not doing an up to date one . 

I argued my case about filing every year and the forms returned to me every year.

They said I must fill a TM 30 in every year from now on....No fine.

I returned the following year with a new TM 30 and was told I din't need a new one unless I have left the country......

Okay.....whatever.

 

 

[mran66]

46 minutes ago, ThirdRock said:

It seems like this is standard procedure, like new tax plans -- make a big announcement but give no details!

 

Indeed SOP for pretty much any regulation or law, or execution of those. In fact the formal rule for tm30 have indeed not changed as far as I know, just  new announcements of its execution every now and then, this one the latest on tm30. And even those announcements are not actually followed in actual execution. 

 

Look forward to see how it goes with the tax issue which at last for me is substantially more. Important than any of the immigration ones. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by mran66

[zenobit]

Okay, I think it will be safest if I also take a completed TM 30 with me to the visa renewal at immigration this year in December... regardless of whether it is needed or not.

 

How should I proceed to get such a document?
My situation is as follows:
- I have been living in Thailand for over 10 years in my Thai wife's house (without a tenancy agreement).
- Have not left the country in that time
- Have never filled out a TM 30. Does my wife have to do this or do I have to do it?
- Does the document have to be confirmed somewhere?

[NE1]

11 minutes ago, zenobit said:

Okay, I think it will be safest if I also take a completed TM 30 with me to the visa renewal at immigration this year in December... regardless of whether it is needed or not.

 

How should I proceed to get such a document?
My situation is as follows:
- I have been living in Thailand for over 10 years in my Thai wife's house (without a tenancy agreement).
- Have not left the country in that time
- Have never filled out a TM 30. Does my wife have to do this or do I have to do it?
- Does the document have to be confirmed somewhere?

Download TM 30 

I fill everything in for my wife and she signs it.

That is it as far as I am aware.

Never had to confirm it .

Plus what Sheryl posted.

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by NE1

[Sheryl]

9 minutes ago, zenobit said:

Okay, I think it will be safest if I also take a completed TM 30 with me to the visa renewal at immigration this year in December... regardless of whether it is needed or not.

 

How should I proceed to get such a document?
My situation is as follows:
- I have been living in Thailand for over 10 years in my Thai wife's house (without a tenancy agreement).
- Have not left the country in that time
- Have never filled out a TM 30. Does my wife have to do this or do I have to do it?
- Does the document have to be confirmed somewhere?

Your wife should file one. Can be done either in person or online but to do online she has to register first, upload tabian ban etc.   Might not be worth the bother just to file for one person once.

 

She will need to have her Thai ID and tabian ban (originals plus photocopy) and fill out a simple form at immigration, That's it.

[observer90210]

Always remember that nation wide immigration rules in Thailand change by office, by province and depending on the mood of the officer behind the counter. With that in consideration, you will never get overwhelmed when the rules change each day or by the hour.

[mran66]

15 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Your wife should file one. Can be done either in person or online but to do online she has to register first, upload tabian ban etc.   Might not be worth the bother just to file for one person once.

 

She will need to have her Thai ID and tabian ban (originals plus photocopy) and fill out a simple form at immigration, That's it.

Can a farang living in his company-owned house with non-O visa, but without any thai id nor thai spouse etc, register to this system and start filing the tm30 report for himself? 

[Sheryl]

17 minutes ago, mran66 said:

Can a farang living in his company-owned house with non-O visa, but without any thai id nor thai spouse etc, register to this system and start filing the tm30 report for himself? 

Yes. You can register as "housemaster". Though might have to have a yellow tabian baan, I'm not sure (I had one when i registered).

 

Thread moved to visa forum for better responses.

[zenobit]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Your wife should file one. Can be done either in person or online but to do online she has to register first, upload tabian ban etc.  

Do I understand correctly that it is not me but my wife who has to file the TM 30 application?

If so, she would certainly prefer to register online. Do you happen to have a link to the registration page?
Thank you so much for the — as always — very competent tips. ????

[Tropicalevo]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Yes. You can register as "housemaster". Though might have to have a yellow tabian baan, I'm not sure (I had one when i registered).

 

Thread moved to visa forum for better responses.

Blue Tabian Baan is OK as well. All of the villas that we register are on blue ones.

I think that the 'new' rules are because immigration now have a centralised database and a single method of capturing the information (for the on line users).

Before, each office would register on a local system. (Samui was 'the hotel TM 30 system'.)

[Tropicalevo]

11 minutes ago, zenobit said:

Do I understand correctly that it is not me but my wife who has to file the TM 30 application?

If so, she would certainly prefer to register online. Do you happen to have a link to the registration page?
Thank you so much for the — as always — very competent tips. ????

https://tm30.immigration.go.th/tm30api/loginExternal.jsp?value=EXT&id=2e72eaa52a25e7fb69478b5a5160395b

[Red Phoenix]

8 hours ago, zenobit said:

Do I understand correctly that it is not me but my wife who has to file the TM 30 application?

If so, she would certainly prefer to register online. Do you happen to have a link to the registration page?
Thank you so much for the — as always — very competent tips. ????

According to Thai law it is the 'housemaster' (which can be the owner, landlord or resident) that has to notify the local Immigration Office that a foreigner is staying at the premises. The form to be used for such notification is the TM-30, and it needs to be done (either on-line or in person) within 24 hours of arrival of the foreigner at the premises.

Hotels/guesthouses can simply do such notification on-line for foreigners staying there, and those foreigners that are in Thailand on a Tourist Visa (or entered Visa Exempt) and want to apply for a 30-day extension of stay, can ask the Hotel/guesthouse for a copy of that TM-30 notification as the local Imm Office will not provide any service without 'proof of address'. 

When staying in a rented/leased place or in the house of your wife/girlfriend, and wanting to stay longer-term in Thailand, the local Imm Office needs additional evidence that you are actually residing there.  And such evidence can consist of a rental agreement (in case of renting/leasing) or the Housebook of the place you are staying.  And in both cases Immigration also requires a signed front/back copy of the Thai ID-card of the owner/landlord of those premises. 

Also most Imm Offices are somewhat lenient and do not insist on having this done within 24 hours as the law prescribes, but it is recommended to do it within the first 1-2 weeks of you having moved to the place where you will be residing long-term.

NOTE that you will come across many posts of long-term residents in Thailand, claiming that 'they never did a TM-30'.  But what happened is that at their first encounter with Immigration that they (or their landlord/wife) provided the required evidence (i.e. rental agreement or housebook, together with copy of Thai ID-card) and that their local Imm Office filled in the TM-30 form for them without them being aware.  The fact alone that they were able to get services from that office is already proof that they have met the TM-30 notification requirement.   

Edited October 14, 2023 by Red Phoenix

[TimeMachine]

You get different people and different days. Always use the fail safe option. I report each time I go out shopping and return from Bug C. No issues so far.

[bamnutsak]

Police Regulations re: refiling of a TM30 in the case where a foreigner returns to the same address were Gazetted 16 June 2020, effective 30 June 2020.

 

http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2563/E/141/T_0001.PDF

 

2.2 When the host Owner or occupant of the dwelling or hotel manager
The notification according to 2.1 has been processed. Later, the foreigners traveled to stay at other places from time to time and returned.
Staying in the same place of residence within a period of residence that has not yet ended. Landlord Owner
or the occupant of the dwelling or hotel manager No need to notify again.
Foreigners according to the first paragraph shall include foreigners who have received
A visa that can be used multiple times to travel outside the Kingdom and re-enter according to age.
Visa inspection and aliens who are allowed to re-enter the Kingdom according to their original rights (Reentry
permit)

 

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Legal/Notification-of-place-of-residence-Form-TM302

 

I understand that offices can implement policies and procedures which appear to contradict the written policy.

 

[Liquorice]

Under section 38 of the Immigration Act, it is a requirement that all foreigners entering the Country must have their place of residence registered with their local Immigration office. Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979) ENG.pdf 
The form for such is known as a TM30.  TM30-Notification of alien residence.pdf 

 

Previously, Immigration required a new TM30 to be filed if the foreigner;
1. Permanently moved to a new place of residence.
2. Temporarily lived elsewhere, either a temporary holiday elsewhere in Thailand, or a temporary visit overseas.

 

On June 5th, 2020, Immigration issued a new regulation (effective 30th June 2020) amending section 38 of the Immigration Act.
TM30 reporting regulation (Eng).pdf 
In essence, what this means is that having once filed a TM30, if the foreigner temporarily stays elsewhere, but returns to his registered place of residence within the validity of his current permission of stay, or a valid multiple entry visa, and returns to his already registered place of permanent residency, then there is no requirement to file a further TM30.

Quote from the regulations.
2. Notification of a householder, owner or possessor of dwelling place or hotel manager, who takes in, as a resident, an alien permitted to temporary stay in the Kingdom must proceed as follows;

2.1 Notify a competent official at an Immigration office located in a locality in which the house, dwelling place or hotel is located within twenty-four hours from the time an alien has taken residence. In case that house, dwelling place or hotel, where an alien has stayed, is located in Bangkok Metropolis locality, such notification shall be made to a competent official at Immigration Division 1 of Immigration Bureau.

2.2 After a householder, owner or possessor of dwelling place or hotel manager already made a notification according to 2.1, then the alien goes to occasionally stay somewhere else and return to stay at the original place within the notified period of stay that has not yet ended, such householder, owner or possessor of dwelling place or hotel manager is not required to make a notification again.

 

A new TM30 should now only be required if you move to a new permanent place of residence.

 

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Liquorice

[zenobit]

Am I just mistaken, or do the posts by “Red Phoenix”, “bamnutsak” and “Liquorice” — in which individual paragraphs are discussed in detail — not come to the same conclusion regarding a logical implementation of the TM 30 rules?

 

I would definitely be lying if I said that the topic of TM 30 was explained in a simple, understandable way and that I now know what to do. The opposite is actually the case: I feel more confused about the topic than before and have not the slightest idea whether I am even affected by the regulation and whether, after more than 10 years, I will suddenly face a problem when I next extend my visa will or not.

[BritTim]

24 minutes ago, zenobit said:

Am I just mistaken, or do the posts by “Red Phoenix”, “bamnutsak” and “Liquorice” — in which individual paragraphs are discussed in detail — not come to the same conclusion regarding a logical implementation of the TM 30 rules?

 

I would definitely be lying if I said that the topic of TM 30 was explained in a simple, understandable way and that I now know what to do. The opposite is actually the case: I feel more confused about the topic than before and have not the slightest idea whether I am even affected by the regulation and whether, after more than 10 years, I will suddenly face a problem when I next extend my visa will or not.

I feel your pain. It is a fact that Immigration at many offices has become much more serious recently about TM30 notifications. Short of local knowledge, it would probably be prudent for you to make a new TM30 notification now out of an abundance of caution.

[bamnutsak]

9 hours ago, zenobit said:

I will suddenly face a problem when I next extend my visa will or not.

I think your wife should file a TM30 for you.

 

But as this has not come up in your previous extensions of stay applications it may be that your office does not require or enforce the need for a TM30?

 

If the Imm office is nearby maybe both of you could stop by and ask about the requirement to file a TM30. Your wife could register on the new online site and then file a report for you, or file in person.

 

 

https://tm30.immigration.go.th/tm30/#/external/security/register/reg-web

 

 

 

[sandyf]

10 hours ago, BritTim said:

I feel your pain. It is a fact that Immigration at many offices has become much more serious recently about TM30 notifications. Short of local knowledge, it would probably be prudent for you to make a new TM30 notification now out of an abundance of caution.

I haven't done a TM30 since 2015 and getting an extension has never been a problem in that respect.

I couple of weeks ago I went to the UK to renew my passport and although I had a re-entry permit decided to come back on a new visa.  I suspect this time with new passport and visa the issue will arise when the extension comes around.

However, I am not going to waste the best part of a day and around 500 baht for fuel on the basis of caution.

[uzynkotak]

What's the current situation with TM30 for Thai elite visa holders? If your landlord or hotel doesn't register you, can you still do yoir 90 day report? Do you have to pay a fine if they don't file it? Someone mentioned booking a hotel for one night in this case... how does that work? If the tm30 says you already checked out and stayed just one night, can you still use it for 90d report?

[Red Phoenix]

4 hours ago, uzynkotak said:

If your landlord or hotel doesn't register you, can you still do your 90 day report?

The 90-day report is nothing more than a confirmation from your part that you are STill residing at your 'official address for immigration purposes' for which you notified the local Imm Office of that province where you have your address.  That natification is done by issuing a TM-30 (with the accompagning evidence, e.g. a rental contract, a house-book and the signed front/back copy of the Thai ID-card of the owner/landlord of the premises). 

[Red Phoenix]

4 hours ago, uzynkotak said:

Someone mentioned booking a hotel for one night in this case... how does that work?

That would normally only work for those having entered Thailand VisaExempt or on a TouristVisa, wanting to extend their stay by applying for a 30-day extension of stay, which can be done at any Imm Office. 

When applying for a Non Imm O Visa or 1-year extension of such, staying in a Hotel after having just arrived or moved from your previous address, would only work at some Imm Offices (e.g. CW) if the Hotel provided you also with a statement that you are staying there only temporary until you have found a fitting place for permanent residence.

[Liquorice]

On 10/14/2023 at 11:07 PM, zenobit said:

Am I just mistaken, or do the posts by “Red Phoenix”, “bamnutsak” and “Liquorice” — in which individual paragraphs are discussed in detail — not come to the same conclusion regarding a logical implementation of the TM 30 rules?

 

I would definitely be lying if I said that the topic of TM 30 was explained in a simple, understandable way and that I now know what to do. The opposite is actually the case: I feel more confused about the topic than before and have not the slightest idea whether I am even affected by the regulation and whether, after more than 10 years, I will suddenly face a problem when I next extend my visa will or not.

The rules for when a TM30 should be filed changed in 2020.

 

Prior to that, section 38 of the Immigration Act required the registration of all aliens address where they stayed when entering Thailand.
Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

At that time, not all Immigration offices enforced the requirement. CW being one that comes to mind. Back in 2017/18 CW suddenly started enforcing the requirement. Many foreigners who had previously tried to submit a TM30, but were told it wasn't necessary, now found themselves being fined for not filing a TM30.

Immigration also interpreted the law as such, that if a foreigner stayed elsewhere for short periods, a holiday in Thailand, or a trip to another Country, then they had to refile a new TM30 when returning to their already permanent registered address.

The Immigration regulation published in 2020, I previously posted, changed that.

If you're living at a residential address, a new TM30 is now only required if you move to a new permanent address.

 

Just because you do not have a TM30 receipt stapled in the back of your passport does not automatically mean one has never been filed.
Some expats lose the receipt and simply can't remember, in other instances a landlord/wife filed the TM30 unbeknown to the alien, or a kindly Immigration officer actually filed it on your behalf.

 

When you apply for an Immigration service, such as an extension of stay, Immigration will not usually start to process that application without first checking they have a TM30 on file. The fact you've been extending for years, suggests at some point, somebody filed a TM30 on your behalf.
Next time you visit your Immigration office, request the TM30 receipt. They'll probably just print a new one, have you sign and staple a new receipt in your passport.

 

 

[mran66]

2 hours ago, Liquorice said:

The rules for when a TM30 should be filed changed in 2020.

 

Prior to that, section 38 of the Immigration Act required the registration of all aliens address where they stayed when entering Thailand.
Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

At that time, not all Immigration offices enforced the requirement. CW being one that comes to mind. Back in 2017/18 CW suddenly started enforcing the requirement. Many foreigners who had previously tried to submit a TM30, but were told it wasn't necessary, now found themselves being fined for not filing a TM30.

Immigration also interpreted the law as such, that if a foreigner stayed elsewhere for short periods, a holiday in Thailand, or a trip to another Country, then they had to refile a new TM30 when returning to their already permanent registered address.

The Immigration regulation published in 2020, I previously posted, changed that.

 

This is (was) was exactly my understanding also, until last week. My last TM30 was from Aug 2019, when Pattaya Immigration told no need to do any more if return to same address. No issues with extensions etc since then.

 

Now the news in Pattaya Mail (https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/chonburi-immigration-bureau-tightens-address-reporting-442911) took me by surprise when saw it, and consequently went to do the new TM30, with explanations that indicate that the 2020 regulation would have been voided (i.e need to re-do TM30 if need to deal with immigration)

 

But is there an actual formal new regulation issued for the change to go back to the pre-2020 where you would need to do this every time you enter the country? Or is this just a haphazard implementation change without any formal regulatory change that is different in different immigration offices?