Do you think (most) financially struggling western retirees are stupid for not retiring abroad?

[blazes]

On 10/21/2023 at 4:22 AM, connda said:

Look up the term, "Ugly American".

Here's ChatGPT's two-cents.  It's accurate.

"The term "ugly American" originated from the 1958 novel of the same name, "The Ugly American," written by William J. Lederer and Eugene Burdick. The book was a fictional critique of American foreign policy and diplomacy during the Cold War, particularly in Southeast Asia. The term "ugly American" was used to describe American diplomats and officials who were seen as culturally insensitive, arrogant, and ignorant of the local customs and sentiments in the countries they were stationed in.

The novel told the story of a fictional Southeast Asian country called "Sarkhan" and depicted the various challenges faced by American diplomats and aid workers there. It highlighted the negative consequences of American diplomats' behavior and attitudes, which often alienated the local population and hindered diplomatic efforts.
 

The term "ugly American" quickly entered the public lexicon and became a catchphrase for describing American individuals who exhibited the same characteristics of insensitivity, arrogance, and ignorance, particularly when representing their country in foreign lands. It is important to note that the book and the term were intended as a critique of certain aspects of American foreign policy and diplomatic behavior rather than an indictment of all Americans."

I haven't read it but that's going to be cued up in my reading list.

 

Good old ChatGPT missed out the much more famous novel, The Quiet American, by Graham Greene (1955),  set in Vietnam and influential in critiques of American foreign policy in the 1950's.

 

Also made into a movie.  The subject matter of the novel deals with all the themes mentioned above (Lederer and Burdick).

[Felt 35]

No, and personally I would not have moved anywhere as a pensioner. Of course, it depends a lot on how you are doing where you come from and the possibility of good health help as an aging person, but that math is quite clear as most of us will not get any help outside our own borders without a fat wallet and it was not those with fat wallets this subject was about as far as I understand.

Felt.

[charleskerins]

On 10/21/2023 at 3:23 PM, Celsius said:

Who says they live in a car? You?

 

There are dirt cheap places in USA, people get free medicare and they don't have to beg for a visa in Laos.

 

 

Medicare isn't free ,you are never in doubt but seldom correct.

[Celsius]

Just now, charleskerins said:

Medicare isn't free ,you are never in doubt but seldom correct.

 

I think every idiot knows that taxes pay for medicare, but here you are trying to sound like some kind of  intelligentsia. 

 

Let me put it to you this way. A Brit sexpat in Thailand spends most of his mongering life out of UK, kisses the asphalt in Isaan, begs on HoFundMe to be taken to that god awful NHS for a "free" treatment that he never put a penny in.

 

Yes, healthcare is certainly free.

[charleskerins]

Just now, Celsius said:

 

I think every idiot knows that taxes pay for medicare, but here you are trying to sound like some kind of  intelligentsia. 

 

Let me put it to you this way. A Brit sexpat in Thailand spends most of his mongering life out of UK, kisses the asphalt in Isaan, begs on HoFundMe to be taken to that god awful NHS for a "free" treatment that he never put a penny in.

 

Yes, healthcare is certainly free.

you are consistent  

Is Medicare free for seniors age 65 and older? 

No, most seniors pay between $165 and $370 per month for all components of their Medicare benefits. However, seniors who have a low income can qualify for free or reduced-cost Medicare. 

 

 

[Celsius]

1 minute ago, charleskerins said:

you are consistent  

Is Medicare free for seniors age 65 and older? 

No, most seniors pay between $165 and $370 per month for all components of their Medicare benefits. However, seniors who have a low income can qualify for free or reduced-cost Medicare. 

 

 

 

No one here cares about USA

[jaywalker2]

On 10/21/2023 at 3:22 PM, bignok said:

People choose the devil they know. Chiang Mai and Pattaya have 8 000 baht a month rooms that are pretty decent so yeah Jing is right but lots of westerners dont know.

Pretty decent? Yes, if at 70 or 80 you want to live in a 30 sq meter studio with roads that flood during the rainy season, bake during the hot season, cut off from all your former friends and relatives, and out of touch with the society around you. That's not for most people.

 

There are expat enclaves in places like Mexico but, still, I think it's very hard for elderly people to pick up and move to a completely foreign culture. If you've been living abroad since you were young, it's a different matter. But most people want to die in their home country.

[bignok]

1 minute ago, jaywalker2 said:

Pretty decent? Yes, if at 70 or 80 you want to live in a 30 sq meter studio with roads that flood during the rainy season, bake during the hot season, cut off from all your former friends and relatives, and out of touch with the society around you. That's not for most people.

 

There are expat enclaves in places like Mexico but, still, I think it's very hard for elderly people to pick up and move to a completely foreign culture. If you've been living abroad since you were young, it's a different matter. But most people want to die in their home country.

Move at 60 or 65

[charleskerins]

37 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

No one here cares about USA

That's why they are posting about retirees in the US because they don't care -wrong  just like you were about medicare. 

[jaywalker2]

5 minutes ago, bignok said:

Move at 60 or 65

At 60. you'd have to take an early retirement and wait five years for social security to kick in. And it's still going to be difficult. If you've lived your whole life in your home country, trying to adapt to a foreign culture at that age is very stressful, particularly if you don't have much money. Loneliness is a killer too.

[jaywalker2]

42 minutes ago, charleskerins said:

you are consistent  

Is Medicare free for seniors age 65 and older? 

No, most seniors pay between $165 and $370 per month for all components of their Medicare benefits. However, seniors who have a low income can qualify for free or reduced-cost Medicare. 

 

 

And you only get it if you've paid enough into the system. If you've lived most of your life abroad, you don't qualify.

[charleskerins]

41 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

No one here cares about USA

This fellow is pretty confused  

"Who says they live in a car? You?

 

There are dirt cheap places in USA, people get free medicare and they don't have to beg for a visa in Laos."   C

[GinBoy2]

6 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Part of the reason is the US is a large, and a relatively isolated nation, compared to Europe. A person who lives in a place like Nebraska needs to travel almost 1200 km just to hit a border, whereas someone in Paris who travels 1200 km could be in 17 different countries.

 

Just to get from East or West coast in the US to Asia or Europe requires 6-10 hours of flying, plus cost. How many europeans, even those with passports, do 6-10 hour flights? Brits go from the UK to Spain or France for maybe 30 quid on Ryan Air, which is like going from eastern Nebraska to western Nebraska.

I think thats what a lot of Europeans fail to get, the sheer size of the US.

 

We just did a road trip from San Diego back to South Dakota.

 

In 1500 miles we did beach, desert, alpine, prairie scenery, and thats only half way across the country.

 

Maybe if all those States pretty much all double or triple the size of Belgium needed passports more Americans would get one!

[charleskerins]

5 minutes ago, jaywalker2 said:

At 60. you'd have to take an early retirement and wait five years for social security to kick in. And it's still going to be difficult. If you've lived your whole life in your home country, trying to adapt to a foreign culture at that age is very stressful, particularly if you don't have much money. Loneliness is a killer too.

Certain age group can take at 62. Yes you would definitely have to know someone here or be a very brave soul.

[earlinclaifornia]

"Some that might know of some options may simply be afraid of such a big change."

I do believe that for Americans, it is the top of the reasoning list. People are reluctant to take action because they would just rather not venture out of a comfort zone.

Reminds me of those that do not go to visit the Doctor until it is becomes too painful.

 

 

[scubascuba3]

40 minutes ago, charleskerins said:

Certain age group can take at 62. Yes you would definitely have to know someone here or be a very brave soul.

Some people have private pensions and investments so can come earlier

[charleskerins]

On 10/21/2023 at 5:03 PM, mania said:

Yeah but that same math works both ways.

Anyone "retiring" to place like Thailand on 1k a month or so as you say is nuts++

 

That person is in no way financially able to pay for medical care If or more likely when he will need it. Que the I can fly always home while having a stroke crowd 😉

 

Back in America that group with a 1k SS check qualify for EBT/SNAP for food Plus United health care gives them another $175 a month for anything

 

Plus Medicaid pays their Part B *& Part D

 

Then to top it off Social Security Supplemental Insurance pay them the difference  up to X level (but they cannot leave the country for more than 30 days at a time)

https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-17-008.pdf

 

So yeah its not as dire a pic as you paint.

Believe it or not most of the car/van living crowds want that life

(Gawd knows why but they do 😅 )

where do they live for 1000$ a month?

[ChaiyaTH]

People dislike change, it's that simple. They say people change when the pain to stay the same is bigger than the effort to change. 

[Lacessit]

On 10/21/2023 at 10:37 PM, spidermike007 said:

Yikes. And it will be over in a flash. And what did he have to say for it? Why not seek out a far more fulfilling and adventurous life? Thailand ticks many of the boxes for me. Is it perfect? No. Do I have some complaints? Yes. Am I fulfilled? Absolutely. I love the life and feel very blessed to have had the courage to make the move away from the US. The land of the bitter, unfulfilled, malcontent, humorless, violent and social misfits. 

It seems every American I have met in Thailand is quite scathing about their home country.

Given the state of the political landscape, unsurprising.

[El Matador]

Health or family/friends can be important factors.

 

Ignorance plays a huge part too. Many people think East Asian countries are still third world countries thinking their country is still the best in all fields while not being the case in reality. There is a condescending tone from Western medias when they talk about those countries ; no seeing many countries are catching up quickly. 

 

And there is the classic fear of change obviously. Going long term into another culture is not for everyone. 

[wwest5829]

As stated, reasoning varies and I make it a principal not to call others, “stupid”.  Each must make their personal decision. I do note that there are millions of Americans, like myself who cannot afford a working middle class retirement in the USA and that points to further proof of the unsustainable economic system. I chose to retire in Thailand where I can afford food, clothing, lodging, a car, motorbike and some travel with my now, Thai Wife and Thai Stepdaughter. But there certainly was a cost. I met my two Grandsons for the first and probably only time this past April. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by wwest5829

[RocketDog]

It's simpler than it seems; inertia.

The older one gets the more they dislike change.

Retired people are generally old.

Moving to another country is pretty much the definition of change.

[wwest5829]

23 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It seems every American I have met in Thailand is quite scathing about their home country.

Given the state of the political landscape, unsurprising.

USA reality, documented, is that the working middle class cannot afford life in much of the U.S. This continues for the economics of retirement.

[wwest5829]

1 hour ago, jaywalker2 said:

At 60. you'd have to take an early retirement and wait five years for social security to kick in. And it's still going to be difficult. If you've lived your whole life in your home country, trying to adapt to a foreign culture at that age is very stressful, particularly if you don't have much money. Loneliness is a killer too.

Just a note, education certainly counts in there for adaptation as does having a liberal outlook.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, charleskerins said:

Certain age group can take at 62. Yes you would definitely have to know someone here or be a very brave soul.

Everyone can start at 62 with reduced benefits.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, charleskerins said:

This fellow is pretty confused  

"Who says they live in a car? You?

 

There are dirt cheap places in USA, people get free medicare and they don't have to beg for a visa in Laos."   C

This is bull.

Dirt cheap rent in the US isn't even close to cheap enough.

A typical Medicare recepiant pays more than 150k in lifetime out of pocket costs.

Laos is a rare choice.

There are many other options.

[Lacessit]

52 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

USA reality, documented, is that the working middle class cannot afford life in much of the U.S. This continues for the economics of retirement.

I am wondering when the penny will drop with Americans that unbridled capitalism is doing them no favours, and mild socialism is not the evil most are conditioned to believe.

[Tedly]

On 10/21/2023 at 4:25 AM, Jingthing said:

I call B.S.

Dirt cheap rent in dirt cheap areas for a basic apartment in the U.S. is usually at least 800 dollars a month. People on low level social security often have a check of  1000 or so. Do the math.

Sure it's different if a person owns their home clear.

 Also even if they do own a home, depending on what state they live in property taxes could be 500 dollars a month

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

I am wondering when the penny will drop with Americans that unbridled capitalism is doing them no favours, and mild socialism is not the evil most are conditioned to believe.

Probably never

[Yellowtail]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Probably never

One can only hope.