Labour Government’s Bold Claim to “honesty with voters” Has Unraveled Quickly

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Plus, feathering the clutch while filtering through traffic is also quickly wears thin.

Having ridden bikes in a reasonably large selection of cities that include most of Europe including a lot in Paris places like Cambodia, Bangkok, and many years in Tokyo & that is skimming the surface if the places. FWIW I have never had a small bike until recently, if you are feathering the clutch much you don’t know how to ride a bike. In the hundreds of thousands of miles I’ve driven I can’t recall feathering the clutch more than a handful of times to reduce speed. You should be able to ride feet up at a slow walking pace in first gear.

an automatic bike is probably less able to be driven at slow speeds and be stable than a normal bike

[Moonlover]

5 hours ago, BE88 said:

"" I've never owned a motorcycle in my life""

 

The best advice I can give you is buy a car.

I didn't see 'a car' on the O/Ps option list. This is the motorcycle forum, or hadn't you noticed?

[Middle Aged Grouch]

Best advise man, use skytrain, taxi, grab...anything but avoid getting into a vehicle as the driver and being racketed by the first available cop.

[Middle Aged Grouch]

5 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Lots of “don’t buy one” I’ve ridden motorcycles in Thailand for years on my trips over here. The only reason I don’t ride now is I live in the countryside and have no need for short transport, if I do I use SWMBO’s bike. I have ridden from Bangkok to Singapore and back, Bangkok to Chang Mai but took the train back all on a 110cc bike, with the bike. Today it’s a 120km round trip to town and a car is better for me. If I lived in Bangkok I would have a motorcycle again.

 

Recommendations;

get an expensive good quality helmet,

don’t ride in flip flops wear bike boots, a friend didn’t he lost toes in an accident.

wear gloves.

wear a long sleeved jacket leather is best

wear long trousers 

 

If you can’t commit to wearing sensible clothes DO NOT GET A BIKE. Accidents happen good clothing like a leather jacket drastically reduce the damage you suffer. 

If available I may push to further consider those light summer bike jackets padded with protective spine plate with shoulder and elbow shield inserts.

[HauptmannUK]

Some strong advice. Don't do it. Thai cities are not the place for ab initio motorcyclists.  I first rode a mc when I was about 10 years old, over 50 years ago. Rode every kind of bike and raced a few in my 20's.  Had a few broken bones but been lucky. Was a UK DSA Direct Access scheme instructor for a time. I don't ride in Thailand, the road environment is too dangerous. Too many drunk, drugged, too many untrained/unlicenced drivers. 

 

If you want to travel by mc then pay a mc taxi. They have infinitely more experience than you do and will be safer. If, against advice, you choose to get a bike then get good insurance and remember that insurance is not valid without a licence.

[observer90210]

I would start from getting the proper Thai bike licence. It's one less excuse for the BiB to get some tea money fines from the biker farang.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Having ridden bikes in a reasonably large selection of cities that include most of Europe including a lot in Paris places like Cambodia, Bangkok, and many years in Tokyo & that is skimming the surface if the places. FWIW I have never had a small bike until recently, if you are feathering the clutch much you don’t know how to ride a bike. In the hundreds of thousands of miles I’ve driven I can’t recall feathering the clutch more than a handful of times to reduce speed. You should be able to ride feet up at a slow walking pace in first gear.

an automatic bike is probably less able to be driven at slow speeds and be stable than a normal bike

 

Well, you certainly have more experience than I...  

 

So I may have been riding incorrectly, but having the bike stall and then stall again as I'm gently pulling away makes riding in heavy stop start traffic somewhat tricky.. so yes, feathering the clutch... (yes, facetious answer). 

 

You perhaps misunderstand what I mean by feathering the clutch...  I mean using the clutch to prevent the bike stalling when travelling at very low speeds...  slowing to a stop, picking back up to walking pace, slowing to a near stop, picking up speed to jogging pace, slowing back to a stop etc...   all requires clutch control - easy enough but a hassle.

 

Riding a auto scooter is easier than that hassle regardless of how many countries you've ridden in, and riding a scooter in heavy Bangkok traffic is easier than riding a 'real bike' in Bangkok whatever your experience level...  Some may think differently because of an ego-imbalance that prevents them from accepting that scooters are better suited in certain circumstances - heavy Bangkok traffic is most definitely one of those circumstances... IMO of course !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

35 minutes ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Best advise man, use skytrain, taxi, grab...anything but avoid getting into a vehicle as the driver and being racketed by the first available cop.

 

How to get to the Sky Train ????....  Take a Taxi ???... what about the gridlocked traffic ??... Take a Moto-taxi ???

Want to put your safety in the hands of an uneducated someone who hardly values their own safety ????

 

[richard_smith237]

44 minutes ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

If available I may push to further consider those light summer bike jackets padded with protective spine plate with shoulder and elbow shield inserts.

 

Absolutely agree.....    I have the Rev'it Airwave (with back protector - it also has shoulder and elbow pads)... and use in Bangkok... Its still too damn hot though. 

 

Boots also.... though I must admit to using boots less on a scooter, I used them every time with a 'real motorcycle'.

 

A good protective 'AC Jacket' would be an amazing invention !!!... 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

12 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

Some strong advice. Don't do it. Thai cities are not the place for ab initio motorcyclists.  I first rode a mc when I was about 10 years old, over 50 years ago. Rode every kind of bike and raced a few in my 20's.  Had a few broken bones but been lucky. Was a UK DSA Direct Access scheme instructor for a time. I don't ride in Thailand, the road environment is too dangerous. Too many drunk, drugged, too many untrained/unlicenced drivers. 

 

I don't disagree with this... But having ridden in Bangkok for over a decade I don't see the risks as quite as significant as some make out (still riskier than a car though, obviously).

That said, I don't ride in the dark, as you pointed out - too many drunk drivers, but also so many vehicles with an extremely dark tint and people with terrible eyesight, also never ride in the rain where possible as some of the surfaces are often so greasy).

 

 

12 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

If you want to travel by mc then pay a mc taxi. They have infinitely more experience than you do and will be safer.

 

This I disagree with - when taking a moto-taxi we just dont know who we are getting, some are young with little experience, many are often drunk or amped up on something, they take chances I never would - I avoid moto-taxi's as much as possible and each time I have taken a moto-taxi in the past I've felt far less secure than when riding myself. 

... Added to which moto-taxi's rarely have a proper helmet etc.

 

 

12 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

If, against advice, you choose to get a bike then get good insurance and remember that insurance is not valid without a licence.

 

Good insurance yes - but that should be advice for anyone here, motorcycle rider or not.

Licence, of course, that goes without saying, but a Thai MC licence doesn't make anyone a better rider...

 

[spidermike007]

If riding a motorbike, only do so if you have many years of experience. Especially on the southern islands, where huge numbers of foreigners leave Thailand in a wooden box. Same applies to Bangkok, where a great degree of skill is required. Practice in a track or in rural areas for awhile. Wear the best helmet you can afford. And drive like a grandmother. This applies to ex-pats too. Bring along an international drivers license, or get a Thai DL. This helps you to avoid being fleeced by the local police franchisee.

 

I have been riding bikes for 52 years. Without any serious accidents. A few minor ones over the years. But, I am very careful and very attentive. Riding a bike here is very dangerous. If not the highest, one of the highest fatality rates in the world. And an accident here can be very costly, to your person. Just ask yourself- do I have enough problems already, without a broken skull, or smashed head, or face injury, or lost eye? I have three friends who have been in motorbike accidents on Samui within the last several years. One still cannot walk, or talk or function on her own, from a motorbike accident, where she hit her head on the pavement going only 20 kph. The other one has lost alot of his mental capacity after hitting his head. He insisted for years he would never wear a helmet. Now, he seems 15 years older. The third one is a close friend, who was hit by a sidecar, and nearly lost his leg. 11 operations later, he can walk, but with a limp, and the leg caused him constant problems, many years later. 

 

I would advise getting a smaller bike. Maybe a bike like a Honda 150, or better yet, an ADV160. Easy enough to drive, enough power to take some road trips, and good training. After a year or two, begin by taking some shorter trips. Get some training. Learn how to become a good bike rider, how to avoid accidents, how to react, and how to survive. Bangkok traffic is insane, the average driver can be cavalier at best, and it is all about them, and not you, even if you have the kind of experience I have, and many of the guys on this forum have riding a bike. 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Riding a bike here is very dangerous. If not the highest, one of the highest fatality rates in the world.

Your statement is absolutely true, however it rather lacks context. You are not differentiating between the classes of riders.

in our local villages 7+ years old ride bikes, too many have no thought or concept of the possible dangers, none of them wear any protective gear, grandads get smashed on lao kaw and ride drunk, police don’t enforce helmets outside towns, there are no clothing regulations, there is little to no safety training, riding into oncoming traffic on dual carriage ways is usual, there is little concern of spinal damage when putting an accident victim into the back of a pickup for transport to a hospital etc.

So given all of the above, which is not comprehensive, the statistics are not so shocking.

 

But with proper clothing, a well maintained bike, road safety training etc the risks are enormously less than the raw statistics suggest. Being protected by a car is safer and probably always will be, riding a motorcycle isn’t a dangerous as many suggest but is less safe than driving.

 

[Adumbration]

OP, your thread has a typo in the topic heading.

 

It should read:

 

Advice on Purchasing a Motorcycle Helmet.

[Moonlover]

You've had tons of advise here (and some very stupid comments) so I hope it has all been helpful and not too confusing @mavrik. 

 

Two points I'll pick up on. Firstly I do agree with @richard_smith237 regarding the advantage of (Auto) motor scooters over geared machines, at least when it comes to city riding. There really is a distinct advantage in not having to consider gear changing in the middle of heavy traffic. I wouldn't dismiss them without trying one out first.

 

Secondly, if at all possible, choose a machine with ABS. I 'ummed 'n' ahhed' about spending the extra 6k on my Aerox ABS until the day that a motorcycle/trailer swung a U turn on me in a narrow country road! Braking was my only option so I grabbed the levers like I was a gorilla and the bike came to a completely straight line halt under full control and without any drama. ABS definitely saved me from a serious accident that day.

 

India has now made ABS a mandatory requirement on all new bikes over 125 cc and for good reason.

 

There's an interesting article about ABS on motorcycles right here. ABS on motorcycles

 

Good luck and safe riding and remember, always wear your helmet.

[sometimewoodworker]

14 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Well, you certainly have more experience than I...  

Possibly, I wouldn’t know, other than having ridden hundreds of thousands of miles and commuting daily in city traffic averaging 2,500km per month.

14 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

So I may have been riding incorrectly, but having the bike stall and then stall again as I'm gently pulling away makes riding in heavy stop start traffic somewhat tricky

In my years of riding I may have stalled a bike very occasionally if I was riding a different one for the first time but I never did it more than once and even then I can’t recall a single occasion but it is possible, this would suggest that your ridding style is somewhat less than optimal. I can be reasonably sure that I would recall stalling as none of the bikes I have owned had electric start apart from a 400-Four and few of the ones I borrowed (including the Japanese riding test bike) had that SWMBO’s bike does but I almost never ride it.

 

A side note is that the Japanese unlimited test has a raised bridge/balance beam test that requires you to take more than 10 seconds, I was told that my time was almost 15 seconds that section of the test is at 4:42

 

14 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

You perhaps misunderstand what I mean by feathering the clutch...  I mean using the clutch to prevent the bike stalling when travelling at very low speeds...  slowing to a stop, picking back up to walking pace, slowing to a near stop, picking up speed to jogging pace, slowing back to a stop etc...   all requires clutch control - easy enough but a hassle.

Though I have ridden through dense traffic at slow speeds, often at below walking pace I can’t remember feathering the clutch much, through I must have done it, I certainly never needed to replace a clutch and my Norton commando probably had over 250,000 miles on it with a few hundreds of thousands of those in Paris.

[delgarcon]

A couple of years back I had to spend some time in Bkk and wasn't ideally placed for public transport. Instead of renting a bike or car, I got a local tuk tuk driver to give me his phone number so that I could call him when I needed a ride. Our arrangement worked fine and wasn't expensive.

[richard_smith237]

30 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Possibly, I wouldn’t know, other than having ridden hundreds of thousands of miles and commuting daily in city traffic averaging 2,500km per month.

In my years of riding I may have stalled a bike very occasionally if I was riding a different one for the first time but I never did it more than once and even then I can’t recall a single occasion but it is possible, this would suggest that your ridding style is somewhat less than optimal. I can be reasonably sure that I would recall stalling as none of the bikes I have owned had electric start apart from a 400-Four and few of the ones I borrowed (including the Japanese riding test bike) had that SWMBO’s bike does but I almost never ride it.

 

A side note is that the Japanese unlimited test has a raised bridge/balance beam test that requires you to take more than 10 seconds, I was told that my time was almost 15 seconds that section of the test is at 4:42

Though I have ridden through dense traffic at slow speeds, often at below walking pace I can’t remember feathering the clutch much, through I must have done it, I certainly never needed to replace a clutch and my Norton commando probably had over 250,000 miles on it with a few hundreds of thousands of those in Paris.

 

Thanks for the lesson - It would be impressive to see you riding down Sukhumvit road at 5pm on a Friday and not using the clutch on a non-auto bike !!!... 

 

 

You seem to be sticking to your 'interpretation of feathering the clutch'...  Maybe your interoperation of that phrase is correct, however, I've explained what I meant - When coming to a stop, or very close to a stop we have to engage the clutch to prevent the bike from stalling... in heavy stop-start traffic the clutch has to be depressed multiple times. 

 

I have not found a manual bike that does't stall when stopped in gear without the clutch engaged.

 

What I mean by feathering the clutch is to engage the clutch when coming to a stop & sometimes just as we are about to stop, before putting down a foot the traffic may move, in which case we disengage the clutch beyond biting point with some revs to re-engage drive to the wheels...  Its exactly the same for a car as it is for a bike and doesn't require any special 'biker understanding' to know this.

When driving a 'geared car' in Bangkok stop-start traffic clutch use becomes tedious. Exactly the same can be said for using a non-auto geared motorcycle, hence my comment that a 'feathering the clutch' (i.e. the constant use of the clutch) when ridding in stop start traffic quickly wears very thin.

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, delgarcon said:

A couple of years back I had to spend some time in Bkk and wasn't ideally placed for public transport. Instead of renting a bike or car, I got a local tuk tuk driver to give me his phone number so that I could call him when I needed a ride. Our arrangement worked fine and wasn't expensive.

 

One of the worst things about riding a motorcycle in Bangkok is the heat.

Sometimes the convenience of being able to 'split traffic' is offset by the heat, getting too hot and sweaty etc.

Using a TukTuk seems to combine both the inconvenience of getting stuck in heavy traffic and the discomfort of being exposed to the elements and heat !!... 

Although, obviously a TukTuk is safer than a bike as its 'harder to fall off'....  But, the same convenience can be achieved with a regular taxi and that comes with AC !!... 

 

 

[spidermike007]

16 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Your statement is absolutely true, however it rather lacks context. You are not differentiating between the classes of riders.

in our local villages 7+ years old ride bikes, too many have no thought or concept of the possible dangers, none of them wear any protective gear, grandads get smashed on lao kaw and ride drunk, police don’t enforce helmets outside towns, there are no clothing regulations, there is little to no safety training, riding into oncoming traffic on dual carriage ways is usual, there is little concern of spinal damage when putting an accident victim into the back of a pickup for transport to a hospital etc.

So given all of the above, which is not comprehensive, the statistics are not so shocking.

 

But with proper clothing, a well maintained bike, road safety training etc the risks are enormously less than the raw statistics suggest. Being protected by a car is safer and probably always will be, riding a motorcycle isn’t a dangerous as many suggest but is less safe than driving.

 

 

I agree, spot on analysis, you hit the nail right on the head. With the right training, with the right gear, with a sense of presence and a awareness of how dangerous driving a motorcycle can be, accidents can be reduced to a dramatic degree, as many of us can attest to, who are incredibly careful when we get on our bikes. 

[hotchilli]

On 10/26/2023 at 3:50 PM, mavrik said:

I've never owned a motorcycle in my life

Does this mean you've never ridden a motorcycle?

If not I'd save the money on buying one, give the fare to taxi rider and stay alive.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, hotchilli said:

Does this mean you've never ridden a motorcycle?

If not I'd save the money on buying one, give the fare to taxi rider and stay alive.

Yep ... that's how I read it, as an experienced, confident driver wouldn't ever post the query with that little tidbit.  Why I suggest 'take he bus'

 

Thailand, especially a congested city with everyone in a hurry, is not the place to learn.  Fine for the back sois, local neighborhoods, but any commute in rush hour is risky.   Only plus is, sometimes the gridlock is safer, due to low speeds.  With that, comes a lot of unexpected lane changes, and not everyone is using their mirrors beforehand.

 

As the tourist oops make the news, it's obvious, one needs to be an experienced rider in TH.

Edited October 28, 2023 by KhunLA

[brianthainess]

On 10/26/2023 at 3:50 PM, mavrik said:

I've never owned a motorcycle in my life

Sorry have not read all posts, by the sound of that you don't have a license to even drive one. A car license will not be sufficient.

[brianthainess]

On 10/26/2023 at 10:36 PM, observer90210 said:

I would start from getting the proper Thai bike licence. It's one less excuse for the BiB to get some tea money fines from the biker farang.

Plus you will not be insured.

[observer90210]

20 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

Plus you will not be insured.

On a different approach, people often choose to rent at first before buying and ignore or forget to check the  type 1  "First Class" insurance (as its called)  required to cover a rented vehicle. Of course many rent out big bikes/cars, vans with absolutely no coverage or inadapted coverage for commercial purpose i.e, rent.

 

Not to mention the other scams and falacious accusations of damage, inspired maybe by the fine jetski scammers of Phuket !!

Edited October 28, 2023 by observer90210

[ignore it]

Ignore all these nay sayers and girly moped lovers!

 

Buy the biggest bike you can find and buy a new one! They are the easiest to learn to ride, you can drive and park it safely anywhere and they go really fast.

 

Don't bother with getting a helmet! It will ruin your hair and appearance.

 

Don't worry about medical insurance! You will never dump it or crash and if somebody hits you, your parents will be able to come and sit by your bed and take photos for your repatriation "Go fund me campaign."

 

[ignore it]

Nah,

Stick with the moto taxis and buy your own helmet !

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by ignore it

[JayClay]

On 10/26/2023 at 6:51 PM, richard_smith237 said:

Buy a decent Scooter with ABS and and 'combo-breaking'...   If you still want a larger bike, evolve into it.

 

 

Ideal bike to start with: I'd recommend a Honda ADV 160 (opinions of others will vary of course

 

Some good advice there but I'd say even 160cc is overkill for Bangkok. You're never going to need that power.

 

When I was living there I had a Yamaha Aerox 155 but only because I was living and working on the outskirts of Bangkok and would occasionally use it to go on longer trips out of town on weekends. Therefore the compromise of a slightly bigger bike made sense to me at the time.

 

If I had been in central Bangkok, or if I wasn't planning on the longer journeys, I would have gotten a 125. And that's having already had 20 years of experience riding bikes (scooters).

 

The fact that the OP has apparently never even ridden a bike before only makes me want to double down on my suggestion: Get a 125!

Edited October 28, 2023 by JayClay

[Road Warrior]

caution ALWAYS check green book for owners and is says hand written  alterations if so may well be GREY book  which is another scraped bike dont buy. very common in Thailand  as you wont find it easy  to sell it on 

[sometimewoodworker]

20 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Thanks for the lesson - It would be impressive to see you riding down Sukhumvit road at 5pm on a Friday and not using the clutch on a non-auto bike !!!... 

I now understand that by feathering the clutch you mean using the clutch, and of course you must use the clutch on a non auto bike. To me the term “feathering the clutch” means to partially engage is so that it slips but still provides forward momentum, and that is something I virtually never do

 

20 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I have not found a manual bike that does't stall when stopped in gear without the clutch engaged.

It is possible but only if the clutch is so worn as to have required replacement some long time ago 😉 

 

20 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

When driving a 'geared car' in Bangkok stop-start traffic clutch use becomes tedious. Exactly the same can be said for using a non-auto geared motorcycle, hence my comment that a 'feathering the clutch' (i.e. the constant use of the clutch) when ridding in stop start traffic quickly wears very thin.

There your analogy breaks down. When driving in slow to stop go traffic in a manual car you have zero option but to use the clutch. When driving in the same traffic on a bike you can filter through the majority of the traffic without stopping and little use of the clutch if you have the slow stable riding skills that come from doing it for hours daily, FWIW I would class the rider in the video I posted as not the most experienced, as while he may have just qualified at 10 seconds (it’s not easy to get an exact time) he was far less stable than he could have been and inconsistent in speed. As to being tedious the squishy automatic is significantly less responsive and requires much more use of brakes so it’s swings and roundabouts. Ride it as if you’re in a car the squishyness becomes irrelevant. Ride it faster through traffic and I am sure which transmission will get you there faster and more comfortably. 

[Enoon]

"anything else I should know?"

 

You are definitely going to fall off.

 

The fall may involve another road user but you, a novice, one way or another, are definitely going to fall off.

 

The better the safety gear you wear the less it hurts

 

👍

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Enoon