Obamacare saves the day

[KhunLA]

As of 2023, 40 million are enrolled in ACA, which only represents about 12% of the population.  Many of those, are enrolled in the Medicaid part of ACA, ( 27 million as of 2021 )which they probably qualified for, but simply didn't know it, until they were forced to have some type of coverage.  

 

Since not being able to pay for coverage, then they qualified for Medicaid, with many, already on Medicaid, as part of the HUD state & fed welfare system.  Really didn't save the day for many, simply enlightened them.  If they showed up at a public hospital prior to ACA, (which never could turn anyone away) they were simply enrolled in Medicaid, since qualifying for .  Or services rendered, and put on a payment plan, whether able to pay or not.

 

One of the very few positives of ACA. Other positives:

... can't be denied for pre-existing condition

... can't be cancelled (supposedly)

 

That's about it.   Everyone else had their insurance premiums raised, and covers less now, with much higher deductible for basic policy.   Overall, healthcare is much more expensive for the other 88% of citizens.

Edited November 6, 2023 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

So, if you eliminate the ignorant people, now enlightened, part of the 27 million on Medicaid, and most of the 40 million, on ACA.   Most of those 27 million were probably already on Medicaid, through state/fed welfare system, then more added during Covid, due to loss of income, hitting that 27 mill #.

 

Then how many actually were saved, benefited from ACA ? Not many IMHO

 

13 ish million of 334 million citizens, so all of <4% of the USA population  So who benefited:

... insurance carriers

... private hospital

... big Pharma

 

The tax payer ...  not so much.

Thanks Obama

Edited November 6, 2023 by KhunLA

[scorecard]

On 11/2/2023 at 10:04 PM, save the frogs said:

You are right. 

Maybe the US is the only Western country that has this system. 

 

'System', what does that mean?

 

[save the frogs]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

'System', what does that mean?

 

healthcare attached to job

[heybruce]

17 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

To be clear, anyone paying for Obamacare, is paying for the exact same care, and standing in the exact same lines as every illegal alien. 

 

To be clear, your post makes no sense.

[heybruce]

13 hours ago, KhunLA said:

So, if you eliminate the ignorant people, now enlightened, part of the 27 million on Medicaid, and most of the 40 million, on ACA.   Most of those 27 million were probably already on Medicaid, through state/fed welfare system, then more added during Covid, due to loss of income, hitting that 27 mill #.

 

Then how many actually were saved, benefited from ACA ? Not many IMHO

 

13 ish million of 334 million citizens, so all of <4% of the USA population  So who benefited:

... insurance carriers

... private hospital

... big Pharma

 

The tax payer ...  not so much.

Thanks Obama

Even if your speculative numbers are correct (sources would be nice), getting healthcare for 13 million people is an accomplishment.

 

However I agree the US system is ridiculously complicated and expensive.  It was the best that could be passed.  Trump promised something better and cheaper, but then learned that healthcare was difficult (proving just how clueless he is).  We should adopt universal healthcare as every other rich country does.

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

Even if your speculative numbers are correct (sources would be nice), getting healthcare for 13 million people is an accomplishment.

 

However I agree the US system is ridiculously complicated and expensive.  It was the best that could be passed.  Trump promised something better and cheaper, but then learned that healthcare was difficult (proving just how clueless he is).  We should adopt universal healthcare as every other rich country does.

The 13 million were already getting it. 

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

To be clear, your post makes no sense.

Why?

[placeholder]

23 hours ago, KhunLA said:

As of 2023, 40 million are enrolled in ACA, which only represents about 12% of the population.  Many of those, are enrolled in the Medicaid part of ACA, ( 27 million as of 2021 )which they probably qualified for, but simply didn't know it, until they were forced to have some type of coverage.  

 

Since not being able to pay for coverage, then they qualified for Medicaid, with many, already on Medicaid, as part of the HUD state & fed welfare system.  Really didn't save the day for many, simply enlightened them.  If they showed up at a public hospital prior to ACA, (which never could turn anyone away) they were simply enrolled in Medicaid, since qualifying for .  Or services rendered, and put on a payment plan, whether able to pay or not.

 

One of the very few positives of ACA. Other positives:

... can't be denied for pre-existing condition

... can't be cancelled (supposedly)

 

That's about it.   Everyone else had their insurance premiums raised, and covers less now, with much higher deductible for basic policy.   Overall, healthcare is much more expensive for the other 88% of citizens.

 

21 hours ago, KhunLA said:

So, if you eliminate the ignorant people, now enlightened, part of the 27 million on Medicaid, and most of the 40 million, on ACA.   Most of those 27 million were probably already on Medicaid, through state/fed welfare system, then more added during Covid, due to loss of income, hitting that 27 mill #.

 

Then how many actually were saved, benefited from ACA ? Not many IMHO

 

13 ish million of 334 million citizens, so all of <4% of the USA population  So who benefited:

... insurance carriers

... private hospital

... big Pharma

 

The tax payer ...  not so much.

Thanks Obama

Here's how health insurance costs have increased over the last 20 years

 

https://www.kff.org/report-section/ehbs-2022-summary-of-findings/

 

I don't see any evidence of a surge in costs since Obamacare was implemented.

[heybruce]

16 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Why?

Are illegal immigrants getting health care through the Affordable Care Act?  What lines are you referring to?  Do you have evidence for any of your claims?

[heybruce]

16 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

The 13 million were already getting it. 

Nothing in the post I replied to indicates that?  Do you have proof?  Or are you referring to the "show up at the emergency room" healthcare?

[Yellowtail]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

Are illegal immigrants getting health care through the Affordable Care Act?  What lines are you referring to?  Do you have evidence for any of your claims?

So, you deflect? Typical. 

 

Hey, remember when you were howling that no one on the left wanted open boarders? What a knee-slapper that turned out to be. 

 

 

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So, you deflect? Typical. 

 

Hey, remember when you were howling that no one on the left wanted open boarders? What a knee-slapper that turned out to be. 

 

 

A truly bizarre post. You make the false claim that everyone under Obamacare is standing in the same line as illegal immigrants and then you accuse heybruce of deflecting.

And then you compound it by bringing up the issue of the borders. Obsessed.much?

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

A truly bizarre post. You make the false claim that everyone under Obamacare is standing in the same line as illegal immigrants and then you accuse heybruce of deflecting.

And then you compound it by bringing up the issue of the borders. Obsessed.much?

You have nothing. 

[KhunLA]

18 hours ago, placeholder said:

 

Here's how health insurance costs have increased over the last 20 years

 

https://www.kff.org/report-section/ehbs-2022-summary-of-findings/

 

I don't see any evidence of a surge in costs since Obamacare was implemented.

That's because you cherry picked the 'covered workers' graph.  Not those buying personal healthcare away from the workplace.

 

From your link, which you omitted also:

"The average premium for family coverage has increased 20% over the last five years and 43% over the last ten years"

There's a reason you are on my ignore list.

 

[KhunLA]

Cost of healthcare since ACA signed, and note at bottom, this is increased cost to medicare/medicaid, which places limits on what can be charged. Private & worker's policies have NO limits.

source

 

Now compare the inflation/COLA that Soc Sec provided

Along with younger, healthier people, such as myself, who didn't need or want health insurance were forced to purchase it   Which violated the Constitution, and why the fine/tax for not purchasing health insurance was cancelled.

Edited November 8, 2023 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

57 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Along with younger, healthier people, such as myself, who didn't need or want health insurance were forced to purchase it   Which violated the Constitution, and why the fine/tax for not purchasing health insurance was cancelled.

Also another reason why I'm happy I left the USA.  The final checks & balance of the Constitution/democracy failed miserably that day.

 

The SCOTUS is not allowed to change laws, but simply rule on their Constitutionality.   Rule for it, declare un-Constitutional, and or send it back to be rewritten and submitted again.

 

Instead, they changed the penalty for not buying health insurance from an illegal 'fine' to a 'tax'.

 

Add that to the invasions & occupation of sovereign countries during Cheney/Bush administration, when I left, and so glad I stopped, no longer supported that govt's tyranny with my tax dollars.

Edited November 8, 2023 by KhunLA

[impulse]

When I lived in Thailand, I thought Obamacare was a good idea, especially the "no exclusions for pre-existing conditions".

 

Then I moved back to the USA and had to sign up...  First year cost me $1,000 a month for a plan with $5,000 deductible, meaning I'd have to be out of pocket $17,000 before it kicked in.  Then they jacked up the rates to $1,200 a month and $7,000 deductible, meaning over $21,000 out of pocket before it kicked in.  Fortunately Medicare kicked due to age in before I had to renew for a 3rd year.

 

There were cheaper plans available, and plans with lower deductible, but they had very significant co-pays, with the sky being the limit.   And I bought insurance to keep from being bankrupted in case of catastrophic medical events.

 

ACA is a gift to insurance companies.  Not too good for average Americans, unless means testing allows you to apply for gub'ment subsidies.  In which case, it's still a gift to insurance companies, and a burden for taxpayers.

 

BTW, that was after a couple of years extending my Thai employer provided insurance with great coverage (after my contract and WP expired) for about $250 a month.  Quite a shock to re-enter the US market.

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by impulse

[Yellowtail]

12 minutes ago, impulse said:

When I lived in Thailand, I thought Obamacare was a good idea, especially the "no exclusions for pre-existing conditions".

 

Then I moved back to the USA and had to sign up...  First year cost me $1,000 a month for a plan with $5,000 deductible, meaning I'd have to be out of pocket $17,000 before it kicked in.  Then they jacked up the rates to $1,200 a month and $7,000 deductible, meaning over $21,000 out of pocket before it kicked in.  Fortunately Medicare kicked due to age in before I had to renew for a 3rd year.

 

There were cheaper plans available, and plans with lower deductible, but they had very significant co-pays, with the sky being the limit.   And I bought insurance to keep from being bankrupted in case of catastrophic medical events.

 

ACA is a gift to insurance companies.  Not too good for average Americans, unless means testing allows you to apply for gub'ment subsidies.  In which case, it's still a gift to insurance companies, and a burden for taxpayers.

 

BTW, that was after a couple of years extending my Thai employer provided insurance with great coverage (after my contract and WP expired) for about $250 a month.  Quite a shock to re-enter the US market.

 

 

Once there are "no exclusions for pre-existing conditions" it is no longer really insurance. People can just wait until they need it, and then buy it. 

[impulse]

16 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Once there are "no exclusions for pre-existing conditions" it is no longer really insurance. People can just wait until they need it, and then buy it. 

That was the theory behind penalizing people who didn't sign up. 

 

All in, it was a good enough idea, just poorly implemented because of donor pressure.  "Donors" being the insurance companies and their ilk in this case.

[placeholder]

 

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Once there are "no exclusions for pre-existing conditions" it is no longer really insurance. People can just wait until they need it, and then buy it. 

If you are uninsured and fall ill, you will have to wait until the open enrollment period to get insurance. And this wouldn't even be an issue of the US had, like most developed countries, universal health care

[impulse]

49 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 

If you are uninsured and fall ill, you will have to wait until the open enrollment period to get insurance. And this wouldn't even be an issue of the US had, like most developed countries, universal health care

 

One of the few times I actually agree with you in public (though we're not as far apart as I'd lead you to believe on a lot of issues)

I think it's a disgrace the the USA doesn't have universal health care.

 

But at the same time, I cannot imagine the turmoil when millions of employees no longer have to stay in their crap jobs, just to keep their insurance.  The labor market would be a zoo for a few years.  That's not a bad thing in the long term, especially for employees.  But that's why it'll never happen.  The political donor class won't allow it.

 

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

 

One of the few times I actually agree with you in public (though we're not as far apart as I'd lead you to believe on a lot of issues)

I think it's a disgrace the the USA doesn't have universal health care.

 

But at the same time, I cannot imagine the turmoil when millions of employees no longer have to stay in their crap jobs, just to keep their insurance.  The labor market would be a zoo for a few years.  That's not a bad thing in the long term, especially for employees.  But that's why it'll never happen.  The political donor class won't allow it.

 

Actually, when Obamacare was in the works an option for a Medicare like option for those under 65 was on offer. It fell short in the Senate by one vote. Not one Republican supported it. So please stop avoiding the obvious fact that it's the Republicans who stand in the way of a transition to single payer.

[Yellowtail]

5 hours ago, placeholder said:

 

If you are uninsured and fall ill, you will have to wait until the open enrollment period to get insurance. And this wouldn't even be an issue of the US had, like most developed countries, universal health care

Or is you did not want to wait you could just go down and get in line with the illegal aliens and get free treatment. 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Or is you did not want to wait you could just go down and get in line with the illegal aliens and get free treatment. 

sí, señor 

[impulse]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Or is you did not want to wait you could just go down and get in line with the illegal aliens and get free treatment. 

 

That's a little disingenuous.  You can get treated, but you're going to get billed.  The difference is that when they turn the unpaid bill over to a collection agency, it'll ruin your credit and could result in legal judgments that attach to anything you own. 

 

Which, the illegals (many of them, anyway) don't really care.

 

[impulse]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

Actually, when Obamacare was in the works an option for a Medicare like option for those under 65 was on offer. It fell short in the Senate by one vote. Not one Republican supported it. So please stop avoiding the obvious fact that it's the Republicans who stand in the way of a transition to single payer.

 

From 30,000 feet, I'd lament that fact that it didn't happen.  But the devil's often in the detail, like who gets covered, what gets covered, how it gets paid for, etc. 

 

If they proposed covering liposuction, transgender surgery and third trimester abortions, I'd go along with the reps who voted against it.  Ditto if it covers free healthcare for anyone who hops across the border for it.

 

Edit:  BTW, though I do advocate universal healthcare, I'm in favor of at least a token co-pay so everyone has some skin in the game and incentive to live a healthier lifestyle.  Not expensive, and perhaps mean tested, so nobody's locked out.  But not free and unlimited. 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by impulse

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

That's a little disingenuous.  You can get treated, but you're going to get billed.  The difference is that when they turn the unpaid bill over to a collection agency, it'll ruin your credit and could result in legal judgments that attach to anything you own. 

No, they can't take your home or your car. People with a lot to lose, buy insurance. But the ACA made that much more difficult and expensive. 

7 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Which, the illegals (many of them, anyway) don't really care.

 

Why would they?

[placeholder]

Here's an article about FDA approval for weight loss of an Eli Lilly pharmaceutical, terzepatide. Some insurance companies are dropping coverage of these weight loss drugs because of the high expense. Which makes perfect economic sense. Still, Eli Lilly expects to make billions from the drug. I'm not criticizing the company. That's how the free market works. The question is, is this wholesale application of the free market to health care sensible? As a thought experiment consider this: what if the company expects to realize a total profit of 50 billion over the lifetime of the drug? Now it would make no sense for another company to offer that sum or even close to it. But what if the Federal Government did and then offered it virtually for free? Would  the purchase cost repay itself many times over with the savings from lower rates of heart disease, type 2 diabetes, cancers...etc? This pinpoints the problem with the free market approach vs the public health approach to health care. What makes no economic sense in a free market makes huge sense when viewed from a public health perspective.

[heybruce]

On 11/7/2023 at 7:09 PM, Yellowtail said:

So, you deflect? Typical. 

 

Hey, remember when you were howling that no one on the left wanted open boarders? What a knee-slapper that turned out to be. 

 

 

I directly addressed your nonsensical post and you respond with more nonsense.  Typical.

 

Borders aren't open, few people want open borders, the topic is not about borders, and you are desperately trying to deflect.