Geert Wilders' victory in Netherlands election spooks Europe

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/27/2023 at 9:28 PM, sirineou said:

It all starts with one. 

I realise that in every country there is a significant number of people that disagree with it's policy and do the best they can to oppose it . On both ends of the political spectrum.

But IMO it is  cop out to say it's not us . it is our goverment! .  

For all the good things we proudly declare , It is my country , but for the bad things "It is not us it is our goverment" ! do you see the discrepancy? 

No one is innocent, it is only that some are more innocent than others. 

If you have some way I can influence the people that dictate how I live, I'm agog to hear of it.

I couldn't even get the <deleted> to give me the pension in Thailand so I could escape the place.

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If you have some way I can influence the people that dictate how I live, I'm agog to hear of it.

I couldn't even get the <deleted> to give me the pension in Thailand so I could escape the place.

I hear you, and share your frustration but that's no excuse with in the context of my original statement. 

If that was the case co country could be held accountable since every country has a proportion of its population that disagrees with it's goverment.

                                                 "It's not me, it's my goverment"

Can you guess which is the operative word in the above statement?

" My" !!

[xtrnuno41]

Well let me tell you about "my country"

Prices raised since EU, going from guilders to euro, one on one. Doubling prices.

2002 the foodbank was a fact and has an overflow of people using it since then.

For companies make it way more easy to kick out workers. Older people were a target.

They dont check on companies and rules and have a tax loss of 7 billion euro/year. 

About 30000 people going down the drain in divorces, bankrupt, taking kids out of families, due to some regulation.

Now costing millions to set it right, but never ever mental health can be restored.

Many people not having a house to live in and increasing. Now even migrants going before own people waiting many years.

Almost a war was created with Venezuela, as they needed to help USA.

All kinds of taxes going up and up. Government is winner on petrol and gas with taxes.

X -Soldiers have to fight in court many years to get a sick payment, due to war x Yugoslavia. PTSS.

Probably the ones "working" in Afghanistan, the same.

Killing own personal in army, as still toxic paint is used (cancer)  There are some more other issues with army.

 

Crying over MH17, but in the same time kill 70 innocent people with a bombing, of course thanks to USA.(probably ordered)

Wasting billions on things with lots of errors or errors even in proces. Just going down the drain.

But they dont have money to really improve things, they say.

They are stretching not to help citizens in Groningen, due to earth quakes of gaswinning. Not the people who has the same problem with salt winning in the middle of country. Not the people with breaking down houses, due to railway. Not the people who were flooded in Limburg.

Not the medical personal who were in frontline with covid without protection and now sick with covid, not able to work anymore.

From a job you liked, to complete poverty and no support what so ever.

Over a million people in poverty now! 

War in Ukraine, government is telling you to eat less, sit in cold and hang in there. Lots of companies gone, gas to expensive.

What do they care? Nothing. Again a nice experiment, like the covid experiment.  

Refugee kids, years in foster homes, raised, they reach a certain age and kicked out of the country.

Handy men in your house make a report of the situation of your family and bring it to government sections, taking action then.

You could loose your kids, thanks to such a report.

 

Ok this was in a blaze some of the issues of "my country". There are many more.

That is in a time of EU (23 years). 

Conclusion, EU is not working for citizens of EU, only for companies, money.

Government has totally nothing with the citizens, just social chickens to pluck.

Could, would be there a turn around? Guess we ll have to wait and see. All those years, i was amazed  people still voting for 

the worthless ruling parties and still they are there in government with the same people. Pffffffff.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, xtrnuno41 said:

Well let me tell you about "my country"

Prices raised since EU, going from guilders to euro, one on one. Doubling prices.

2002 the foodbank was a fact and has an overflow of people using it since then.

For companies make it way more easy to kick out workers. Older people were a target.

They dont check on companies and rules and have a tax loss of 7 billion euro/year. 

About 30000 people going down the drain in divorces, bankrupt, taking kids out of families, due to some regulation.

Now costing millions to set it right, but never ever mental health can be restored.

Many people not having a house to live in and increasing. Now even migrants going before own people waiting many years.

Almost a war was created with Venezuela, as they needed to help USA.

All kinds of taxes going up and up. Government is winner on petrol and gas with taxes.

X -Soldiers have to fight in court many years to get a sick payment, due to war x Yugoslavia. PTSS.

Probably the ones "working" in Afghanistan, the same.

Killing own personal in army, as still toxic paint is used (cancer)  There are some more other issues with army.

 

Crying over MH17, but in the same time kill 70 innocent people with a bombing, of course thanks to USA.(probably ordered)

Wasting billions on things with lots of errors or errors even in proces. Just going down the drain.

But they dont have money to really improve things, they say.

They are stretching not to help citizens in Groningen, due to earth quakes of gaswinning. Not the people who has the same problem with salt winning in the middle of country. Not the people with breaking down houses, due to railway. Not the people who were flooded in Limburg.

Not the medical personal who were in frontline with covid without protection and now sick with covid, not able to work anymore.

From a job you liked, to complete poverty and no support what so ever.

Over a million people in poverty now! 

War in Ukraine, government is telling you to eat less, sit in cold and hang in there. Lots of companies gone, gas to expensive.

What do they care? Nothing. Again a nice experiment, like the covid experiment.  

Refugee kids, years in foster homes, raised, they reach a certain age and kicked out of the country.

Handy men in your house make a report of the situation of your family and bring it to government sections, taking action then.

You could loose your kids, thanks to such a report.

 

Ok this was in a blaze some of the issues of "my country". There are many more.

That is in a time of EU (23 years). 

Conclusion, EU is not working for citizens of EU, only for companies, money.

Government has totally nothing with the citizens, just social chickens to pluck.

Could, would be there a turn around? Guess we ll have to wait and see. All those years, i was amazed  people still voting for 

the worthless ruling parties and still they are there in government with the same people. Pffffffff.

You sure are connecting imaginary dots. I presume you voted FvD?

[xtrnuno41]

12 minutes ago, stevenl said:

You sure are connecting imaginary dots. I presume you voted FvD?

No facts ! IF you stick your head in the sand, you dont know.

for instance:

https://www.ad.nl/buitenland/bijna-oorlog-met-venezuela-na-neerstorten-mh17~aee2027e/?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo.com%2F

 

https://www.amnesty.nl/de-aanval-op-hawija

 

Im not going to show all, find it your self. Facts !

All I mentioned is in docu's , news, internet. But if you are watching dumb sites and tv, you probably dont know.

And as I already stated, I voted for Geert.

[JonnyF]

13 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

Well let me tell you about "my country"

Prices raised since EU, going from guilders to euro, one on one. Doubling prices.

2002 the foodbank was a fact and has an overflow of people using it since then.

For companies make it way more easy to kick out workers. Older people were a target.

They dont check on companies and rules and have a tax loss of 7 billion euro/year. 

About 30000 people going down the drain in divorces, bankrupt, taking kids out of families, due to some regulation.

Now costing millions to set it right, but never ever mental health can be restored.

Many people not having a house to live in and increasing. Now even migrants going before own people waiting many years.

Almost a war was created with Venezuela, as they needed to help USA.

All kinds of taxes going up and up. Government is winner on petrol and gas with taxes.

X -Soldiers have to fight in court many years to get a sick payment, due to war x Yugoslavia. PTSS.

Probably the ones "working" in Afghanistan, the same.

Killing own personal in army, as still toxic paint is used (cancer)  There are some more other issues with army.

 

Crying over MH17, but in the same time kill 70 innocent people with a bombing, of course thanks to USA.(probably ordered)

Wasting billions on things with lots of errors or errors even in proces. Just going down the drain.

But they dont have money to really improve things, they say.

They are stretching not to help citizens in Groningen, due to earth quakes of gaswinning. Not the people who has the same problem with salt winning in the middle of country. Not the people with breaking down houses, due to railway. Not the people who were flooded in Limburg.

Not the medical personal who were in frontline with covid without protection and now sick with covid, not able to work anymore.

From a job you liked, to complete poverty and no support what so ever.

Over a million people in poverty now! 

War in Ukraine, government is telling you to eat less, sit in cold and hang in there. Lots of companies gone, gas to expensive.

What do they care? Nothing. Again a nice experiment, like the covid experiment.  

Refugee kids, years in foster homes, raised, they reach a certain age and kicked out of the country.

Handy men in your house make a report of the situation of your family and bring it to government sections, taking action then.

You could loose your kids, thanks to such a report.

 

Ok this was in a blaze some of the issues of "my country". There are many more.

That is in a time of EU (23 years). 

Conclusion, EU is not working for citizens of EU, only for companies, money.

Government has totally nothing with the citizens, just social chickens to pluck.

Could, would be there a turn around? Guess we ll have to wait and see. All those years, i was amazed  people still voting for 

the worthless ruling parties and still they are there in government with the same people. Pffffffff.

 

Great post. The EU is doing nothing for the citizens of the EU and only cares about empowering itself and it's unelected technocrats.

 

Well done for voting for Geert. I wish Holand all the best.

 

Hopefully Ireland is next and removes Varadkar who is currently selling out the Irish people.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, sirineou said:

I hear you, and share your frustration but that's no excuse with in the context of my original statement. 

If that was the case co country could be held accountable since every country has a proportion of its population that disagrees with it's goverment.

                                                 "It's not me, it's my goverment"

Can you guess which is the operative word in the above statement?

" My" !!

I don't think I've ever referred to a government of a country I lived in as "my" government and if I did shame on me. I don't actually believe we live in a democratic system as most of us have zero say in how the <deleted>s run the country, Voting for the party that we dislike the least is not a good way to select a government. In NZ which had a truly awful government, IMO, we came perilously near to having them stay in power, despite every single person I know despising them.

 

I'd be happy to see an AI become the government if programmed properly to care for the citizens over the companies and not to give preference to the rich.

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by thaibeachlovers

[Nick Carter icp]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't actually believe we live in a democratic system as most of us have zero say in how the <deleted>s run the country,

 

   You can speak to your local elected Politician about certain issues and he/she can then raise those issues in Parliament , if those issues are important enough . 

   Parliament can then vote on law changes 

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't think I've ever referred to a government of a country I lived in as "my" government and if I did shame on me. I don't actually believe we live in a democratic system as most of us have zero say in how the <deleted>s run the country, Voting for the party that we dislike the least is not a good way to select a government. In NZ which had a truly awful government, IMO, we came perilously near to having them stay in power, despite every single person I know despising them.

These are all rationalizations we  all use. 

Unless you renounced your citizenship, the goverment is your goverment whether you call it that or not. The majority of the people in your country elected them,  and we all happily enjoy and are proud of all positive products of that relationship, those things we don't like we happily blame on others.  

As far as "despite every single person I know despising them " 

Of course everyone you associate with  would despised "them". The people you associate with  tend to reflect your own mindset.

Guess what . the people that liked "them" associated and knew they were going to win because everyone they knew liked "them" 

Bottom line. There are no innocents. Just less guilty ones

[Bday Prang]

On 11/27/2023 at 4:51 AM, EastBayRay said:

Wilders is only saying what many folks are thinking.

 

that’s why he won.

exactly and the only ones feeling spooked are prospective immigrants , workshy benefit claimers and the loony lefties. The hard working dutch citizens have nothing to worry about

[JackGats]

Wilders spooks Europe.

Trump spooks America.

Milei spooks Argentina.

Bolsonaro spooks Brazil.

Long live the spooks!

[Bday Prang]

On 11/29/2023 at 6:35 AM, sirineou said:

I hear you, and share your frustration but that's no excuse with in the context of my original statement. 

If that was the case co country could be held accountable since every country has a proportion of its population that disagrees with it's goverment.

                                                 "It's not me, it's my goverment"

Can you guess which is the operative word in the above statement?

" My" !!

 

   I have never in my life heard anybody, except perhaps the late queen, ever use the phrase "my government" 

   It is not "my" government it is "the" government.  You may feel in someway duty bound to accept responsibility for its pitiful failings but I and many others  do not

                 A government is voted in on the back of its  values, and / or  as a result of various promises contained within a manifesto which it makes prior to the election. When a government, upon being successfully elected then decides to abandon its traditional values and break its election promises, either wilfully or through incompetence, the electorate, even those who actually voted for the incumbent administration  cannot be held responsible,    there is very little the electorate can actually do about it, except wait until the next election 

                 Then, in the case  of British politics, they are given  the opportunity to vote for "the other" whose manifesto is no much different that the current shower, and who will, no doubt do exactly the same.  There is no other choice.    I'm hearing your response already " why doesn't somebody form a party that stands for what the majority want"?    I don't think its that easy, but a few are trying ,   with "UKIP." and "Reform" being a couple of examples but the treatment they and people like Nigel Farage receive from the established parties and of course mainstream media ensures they have little chance of success.

                  However when the people have eventually had enough, and actually vote for somebody who shares their values and genuinely understands  their concerns, they are confronted with headlines such as the one attached to this thread, telling them their votes have "spooked" Europe.   Europe is not spooked, the only ones spooked are a vocal minority, of those involved in illegal immigration, and a few bleeding heart liberal lefty wokists

                 

[Bday Prang]

1 hour ago, JackGats said:

Wilders spooks Europe.

Trump spooks America.

Milei spooks Argentina.

Bolsonaro spooks Brazil.

Long live the spooks!

Don't you just love the mainstream media and politics.    Two entities who are supposed to serve the public, yet have no idea what the public actually want. They have not, contrary to popular opinion  "lost touch" with the public, that phrase would imply that it  happened almost  accidentally,  and that is not the case  They don't care what we want they have their own agenda, hasn't always been like that but it is now 

"Far Right"  seems to be the most misused word of the century so far, seems to me that most people have no idea what far right actually means, and genuinely believe it just  means "people who don't agree with me "     This Wilders guy is not far right,  and he certainly isn't far wrong

The constant mantra from them,  that left is good and right is bad is just plain wrong,  where did it start?

Edited November 30, 2023 by Bday Prang

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, sirineou said:

These are all rationalizations we  all use. 

Unless you renounced your citizenship, the goverment is your goverment whether you call it that or not. The majority of the people in your country elected them,  and we all happily enjoy and are proud of all positive products of that relationship, those things we don't like we happily blame on others.  

As far as "despite every single person I know despising them " 

Of course everyone you associate with  would despised "them". The people you associate with  tend to reflect your own mindset.

Guess what . the people that liked "them" associated and knew they were going to win because everyone they knew liked "them" 

Bottom line. There are no innocents. Just less guilty ones

The majority of the people in your country elected them,  and we all happily enjoy and are proud of all positive products of that relationship, those things we don't like we happily blame on others.  

 

Pull the other one. I doubt we had a government elected by a majority of the population for a very long time. It's only a majority of those that bothered to vote. Especially under MMP any useless crowd can become the government using a coalition, as happened in adhern's first term when NZ First joined them instead of National, subjecting us to the worst government in my lifetime.

 

we all happily enjoy and are proud of all positive products of that relationship,

 

Now you are really trying to pull the wool. Adhern's government may have produced something positive despite people living in cars and youth criminals, but I'm not aware of any. Perhaps you can inform us of any such.

 

As far as "despite every single person I know despising them " 

Of course everyone you associate with  would despised "them". The people you associate with  tend to reflect your own mindset.

 

Even staff in shops that I bought things from were less than positive about labour, despite me not associating with them. Never mind, keep trying to prove I'm wrong.

 

[sirineou]

32 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Pull the other one. I doubt we had a government elected by a majority of the population for a very long time. It's only a majority of those that bothered to vote. Especially under MMP any useless crowd can become the government using a coalition, as happened in adhern's first term when NZ First joined them instead of National, subjecting us to the worst government in my lifetime.

unfortunately this seems to be the situation around the world. 

IMO

Those who voted for an egregious issue are guilty, but could also be guilty of being misguided. 

Those who voted against it are guilty by association.  

But those who did not bother to vote are the most guilty of all. .   

32 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Now you are really trying to pull the wool. Adhern's government may have produced something positive despite people living in cars and youth criminals, but I'm not aware of any. Perhaps you can inform us of any such.

I am American , so when it comes to wool, I defer to those from NZ  and I am not prepared to talk about them. Perhaps you are right and from now on I might have to qualify my statement with a 

"everyone in the world is guilty except  Kiwis.they are just stupid " 

Don't know much about NZ politics, but I do know this NZ ranks 17 th in the world for standard of living. Higher than the UK , France , and Canada. (to mention a few) So I would venture to say that their governments must be doing something right. 

32 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Never mind, keep trying to prove I'm wrong.

I could keep trying , but you seem to be doing a pretty good   job of that . 

Edited November 30, 2023 by sirineou

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

 I have never in my life heard anybody, except perhaps the late queen, ever use the phrase "my government" 

If I was to ask you.

" How is your goverment constituted"

How would you respond?

My goverment consist of.....................

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

Don't know much about NZ politics, but I do know this NZ ranks 17 th in the world for standard of living. Higher than the UK , France , and Canada. (to mention a few) So I would venture to say that their governments must be doing something right. 

Actually, we have a high standard of living ( for anyone with money, but not for the poor ) despite the governments inflicted on us, because we were a sparsely populated country with industrious farmers that earned a great deal of overseas income. The previous government was bent on destroying the farming community, which would be akin to cutting our own throat, as planting loads of trees for carbon sequestration money would not support the rapidly ( due to excessive immigration ) expanding population. Every city is rapidly becoming horrible to live in as population growth has reduced road traffic to a mere snail's pace. I really hate having to go to the city now.

[Bday Prang]

32 minutes ago, sirineou said:

If I was to ask you.

" How is your goverment constituted"

How would you respond?

My goverment consist of.....................

I would respond  "I personally do not have a government but the UK  government......."

[Bday Prang]

44 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Actually, we have a high standard of living ( for anyone with money, but not for the poor ) despite the governments inflicted on us, because we were a sparsely populated country with industrious farmers that earned a great deal of overseas income. The previous government was bent on destroying the farming community, which would be akin to cutting our own throat, as planting loads of trees for carbon sequestration money would not support the rapidly ( due to excessive immigration ) expanding population. Every city is rapidly becoming horrible to live in as population growth has reduced road traffic to a mere snail's pace. I really hate having to go to the city now.

Looks like everywhere is suffering the same fate, I was always an optimist until relatively recently, but now I'm pretty sure the writing is on the wall, Every civilised country seems to be getting run into the ground, to me there seems to be a sort of grim reality about it all, The curse of mass uncontrolled illegal immigration coupled with the misguided notions of diversity and wokeness will be the undoing of the modern world as we know it  

            It will happen an awful lot quicker than the climate change disaster that has been invented to distract us  

Edited November 30, 2023 by Bday Prang

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Bday Prang said:

Looks like everywhere is suffering the same fate, I was always an optimist until relatively recently, but now I'm pretty sure the writing is on the wall, Every civilised country seems to be getting run into the ground, to me there seems to be a sort of grim reality about it all, The curse of mass uncontrolled illegal immigration coupled with the misguided notions of diversity and wokeness will be the undoing of the modern world as we know it

            It will happen an awful lot quicker than any climate change disaster that has been invented to distract us  

The only curse of modern life NZ has not succumbed to ( so far ) is illegal immigration, simply because it's too far away to get to on a leaky rubber boat and NZ does not have an island conveniently close to get to either.

So the excessive immigration is happening legally.

[Bday Prang]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The only curse of modern life NZ has not succumbed to ( so far ) is illegal immigration, simply because it's too far away to get to on a leaky rubber boat and NZ does not have an island conveniently close to get to either.

So the excessive immigration is happening legally.

A big fuss is made in the UK about illegal immigration particularly those coming in the small boats (around 50,000 per year) but now its been revealed that is just a distraction to divert attention from legal immigration which is around 750,000 per year mainly from abuses of the student and other visa schemes.    Today the authorities admitted that they have "lost" 17,000 illegals who have just vanished into the country.   What a disaster

[Bday Prang]

On 11/24/2023 at 12:27 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. No doubt he'll have lots of support among a certain demographic of AN posters active on the "war in israel" sub forum.

 

I don't know too much about him, but he is described as anti illegal immigration, so IMO can't be all bad.

He's described by many as "extreme far right"  although I'm sure that those who refer to him as such have little knowledge of such matters, its just a label they stick on anybody who speaks a bit of common sense, But he is not far right and not far wrong either

[sirineou]

4 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

I would respond  "I personally do not have a government but the UK  government......."

On then that's your goverment , 

[sirineou]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Actually, we have a high standard of living ( for anyone with money, but not for the poor )

so does everyone else.

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

despite the governments inflicted on us, because we were a sparsely populated country with industrious farmers that earned a great deal of overseas income.

I think you just like to argue,  just for the sake of arguing.  All activity in your country, and any other country is administered by your goverment. 

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The previous government was bent on destroying the farming community, which would be akin to cutting our own throat, as planting loads of trees for carbon sequestration money would not support the rapidly ( due to excessive immigration ) expanding population. Every city is rapidly becoming horrible to live in as population growth has reduced road traffic to a mere snail's pace. I really hate having to go to the city now.

So if people  from other countries come after you, for perceived or real grievances. Which is if you remember what this conversation  is about. 

You would tell them, "Dont come after me, it is not me, it is my goverment, Go after my goverment not me!!! NO NO NO, don't go after this goverment , this goverment is good, go after the past goverment , the one that was bad. " 

 

Anyway,I have been very patient with this conversation , But   now I am convinced that you are right, and that nothing I can say  will convince you . Thank you for engaging me in this conversation 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

so does everyone else.

I think you just like to argue,  just for the sake of arguing.  All activity in your country, and any other country is administered by your goverment. 

So if people  from other countries come after you, for perceived or real grievances. Which is if you remember what this conversation  is about. 

You would tell them, "Dont come after me, it is not me, it is my goverment, Go after my goverment not me!!! NO NO NO, don't go after this goverment , this goverment is good, go after the past goverment , the one that was bad. " 

 

Anyway,I have been very patient with this conversation , But   now I am convinced that you are right, and that nothing I can say  will convince you . Thank you for engaging me in this conversation 

Bye bye, it's been real.

[Bday Prang]

16 hours ago, sirineou said:

On then that's your goverment , 

No it is not.  and that is not how you spell it either

[bignok]

19 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

He's described by many as "extreme far right"  although I'm sure that those who refer to him as such have little knowledge of such matters, its just a label they stick on anybody who speaks a bit of common sense, But he is not far right and not far wrong either

Normal is "far right" to the media. 

[Bday Prang]

45 minutes ago, bignok said:

Normal is "far right" to the media. 

Sadly true, we are constantly bombarded with news reports of threats from the " right" but the threat from the "left" is never mentioned, presumably because the "left" have now moved beyond the threat stage and are currently conducting an active campaign. 

It is not just the media, don't forget the major contribution being made to this mess by the education system too

[Nick Carter icp]

21 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

A big fuss is made in the UK about illegal immigration particularly those coming in the small boats (around 50,000 per year) but now its been revealed that is just a distraction to divert attention from legal immigration which is around 750,000 per year mainly from abuses of the student and other visa schemes.    Today the authorities admitted that they have "lost" 17,000 illegals who have just vanished into the country.   What a disaster

 

  Many of those were from Hong Kong and the Ukraine and most of the students were genuine students who study and work part time . 

[Bday Prang]

2 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Many of those were from Hong Kong and the Ukraine and most of the students were genuine students who study and work part time . 

Its irrelevant where they are from    there are enough "students" who never attend any lectures to warrant rounding up and deportation. That would send out the right signals